#157 Harnessing the Power of Generative AI in Finance with Charles Meaden

0:00 From the heart of Dubai where tomorrow is being built today to the world, welcome to the CTO show with limit here. We redefined technology and reimagine possibilities with mehmed delve into the riveting Realms of AI cybersecurity and digital technology experience the thrilling highs and lows of startups. Immerse yourself in the spirit of Entrepreneurship and witnessed the future of business. Innovation, being written in real time. Now, without further Ado, let's tune in and explore the future. Hello, and welcome to a new episode of the city of show with mammoths.

0:50 My name is Muhammad. And as you know, in each episode I cover different topics from emerging Technologies, artificial intelligence cybersecurity digital transformation fintech, Health Tech and also I cover as well. Start ups on entrepreneurship and as you know, by now in the show, I host with me subject, matter experts entrepreneurs that also, they are Expert in the field, they do. And I'm very pleased to have with me Charlie today. Charlie, thank you very much for for being on the show. Can you just introduce yourself and what you are up to? Yeah, sure. Thank you for having me on the podcast. I've listened to a bunch of the podcast after we connected and really enjoyed them.

1:35 So, I'm Charlie Maiden, I'm the CEO of jumbo. Do Ai and jumbled is basically your AI investing assistant in your pocket. And we are helping users, all good men, Automation and AI into their investing strategies and their wealth management. That's very cool. First question Charlie like what town brought you to this field? I mean to technology. Yes may I? Yeah yet to take a step back you know previous to this. I was in the gaming industry and I I built a gaming platform for that did. It was basically like a reward platform for gaming and after the aqua that Aqua higher, we went through, I then started getting into investing.

2:29 But you know, Well, got me. That was getting into technology learning how to save very well. And then starting to want to put my money to work. And I didn't have enough money to do Angel Investing. Well, so I wanted to come up with a very strong system for investing and being that, I had a technical background and I was very interested in Building Systems, I was like, well, I want to build a systematic strategy utilizing Automation and AI to help me invest, but still having that kind of human nuanced thinking involved in my strategy. So, basically, I built my own systematic strategy over. About three years and then I was like, well, I think that other people could benefit from this and I've been running my own strategy now since 2019.

3:20 And it's it's been really good. That's cool. So like what what exactly like Gambit is all about? Like, it can you just explain, you know, what the base, how it helps people there. And then we can dive little bit into the AI part of it, and you, Like the thick part. Yeah, yeah. Sounds good. So I'll just yeah the platform intends to basically help you manage and execute your investing and you're investing strategy. And we have a bunch of functionality on our site to help you do that. So we have the ability to create these collaborative, watch lists where you can do research with other people.

4:08 You can use our AI assistant to, you know, learn about investing, do research on historical kind of financial events and even constructing, you know, portfolios and researching kind of known portfolios, like the all-weather portfolio from Ray dalio. And then, you know, merging it with Kathy Woods, kind of investing principles. And then we've got some multi ordering features and we've got At a brokerage capability so that you can trade and invest in US, equities, ETFs and cryptocurrencies. This allows a. I so what we've got a number of AI pieces in there in the platform.

4:57 But, you know, we're starting to really try to innovate in the generative AI space. And at the moment we're using a GPT model, and then beading. Context in regards to the user that situation and you know high quality data to make sure that the assistant can give better responses than standard gbt like chat gbt kind of instance, okay. And now just out of curiosity, we know like when we talk about Chad GPT a chat GPT is not like kind of real time in the sense that it stopped then.

5:38 Knowledge at a certain time so how how you can utilize it? Like, I know like now the plugins are starting to play some role here but like what how you can describe, you know, giving charity PT? Such capabilities. Yeah, so just in regards that you can obviously provide context and you can work with GPT the API to actually kind of read from your Data and also Kate take care of functions activate functions. Now, the generative AI is just one part of its kind of how it's how you interface with, you know, the application. But ultimately underneath the generative AI, there's got to be functions that, you know, are specific for different tasks, so that they're accurate and they're not kind of there isn't kind of any Randomness to it, right? Right?

6:39 When you are the more you ask the assistant to do things, the more you want to make sure that it's using you know, clean data, you know, clean functions, so it can be accurate. So it's about merging and augmenting that experience with kind of traditional risk management and, you know, kind of portfolio management at yes, okay. Now there's a lot of I would say hi. About generative, a, I mainly chat GPT from your experience. Charlie, like, where do you think Chad GPT can take us?

7:19 What? What are the limitations with generative AI? It's not just GPT, right? There's so many out there are so many other models which is which is interesting and people are going to choose which models resonate with their most right? You got some people that use Bard, some people that use GPT it's going to Be a user preference thing at the end of the day. But, you know, over the next five years, very specific applications are going to come out that are going to solve specific problems. And like that's going to be able to improve productivity, you know, and efficiencies within businesses and people's lives. And then obviously you're going to have these kind of more monolith models and kind of interfaces which kind of compete for your kind of your Right.

8:08 So you know, you're gonna have Google, the are going to have a lot of that, integrated into the feature set, and then you're going to have to Microsoft. And and then what Apple are doing with generative. A I will AI in general and then of course how they're mixing that with Hardware is going to be very interesting. Yeah, now coming back to to the fintech part of it. So you have applied into trading signals, basically, and I mean, Trading the stock market. What other like spaces is you see is you don't have ai is coming into the finance sector in the final Center.

8:52 You know, you could also see a lot of content being created through generative AI which people will consume whether that be kind of like newsletters and different summaries. Also going to see this potentially with different levels of wealth management and budgeting you know we're working on functionality at the moment, you know. It's with investing it's not just about what kind of buying with a specific amount of capital. It's about saving more and regularly contributing. So you know if you connect your bank accounts and your investment accounts to jeong-bok, can we use Rai to help save you 4% a year? Because if we save you 4% a year you'll return you'll Retire with 27 percent more money.

9:42 Yeah, so that's kind of where we're looking at seeing how we can kind of come in and merge, you know, mix the things that we need to to help people have better Financial outcomes. So, for us, that's how do we use generative Ai and just automation, just good old-fashioned efficiency to improve people's to save to learn and then to save and invest. So, you know, they got, they got to reduce their outgoing. He's got to learn about financial literacy and you got to then regularly contribute to your investing, you know? That's, that's interesting. So do you think that this will lead to some jobs being wiped out because of this like maybe portfolio managers or, I don't know financial planners. Well, what's your take on this?

10:33 You know, I, my Twitter handle is cyborg Charlie. Okay, that's because I think this is an opportunity. Auntie for a merge, we're all kind of cyborg with our phones, right? And this is going to displace certain kind of the ways. Nothing's going to change but the waves we do things might change, right? So people have been going to move on and find the next thing to work on and be in and kind of do like, we've seen that time and time again in history. So I, you know, I try not to think about well, no, you've got to think about kind of the ramifications, the unintended consequences and the risks, but I'm not too worried about humans not having anything to do because I believe that humans are very creative and they'll always find stuff to do and we do have two.

11:29 We do have to consider what it means for, you know, wealth gaps and in a quality potentially, if there's no way to get income but that's why I've been advocating for. Young people to build equity, it doesn't just have to be stock market, but build equity, go and get equity in something and that's how you can get nonlinear outcomes, right? Yep. So now I'm going on on the same point and just at this is like my own view on this is Yeah, Technologies change the landscape like careers, get wipe out some jobs, get wiped out, but I think with AI is like this augmentation. That's right.

12:20 Yeah. So we've talked a lot about it in the show now here and I want to come back to the financial part, like it requires some human interaction, sometimes because let me ask you like, from from what you are seeing now, how Act is now Example a model like Chad GPT and predicting. For example, how a stock will go up or down, maybe a crypto will go up or down or down how much still it requires human, you know, Intervention when it when it does the but supposed to do. Yeah. I mean without using the API or doing work on it, it's it's not it's not necessarily going to be, lets say i a Our act, right?

13:07 It's about the application and how you use the generative AI to help you with what you're doing, right? So can it help you build a portfolio right based on your risk parameters on your goals on kind of the things you want to do? Can it help you research? Yes, you know, but it's going to be a situation where You kind of get out. It's not the same Netflix subscription for every user. Some users are going to get a Lamborghini and some users are going to get a Nissan Leaf. Yeah. Yeah. I think the new sound leaves are great. So you know like if that's just a model portfolio where I can save you know ten percent of my salary every year, that's going to be create amazing outcomes for me, you know, and I don't have to do anything and it's you know, very low fees, that's good. But some people might want to Actually generate Alpha from the platform and really kind of do creative things like create multiple strategies and then potentially have kind of macro, kind of an overarching macro, kind of risk situation where you could use agents to do that for you. So I would come back to the agents pod. But, like you mentioned something about someone who can create an alpha and someone who can create him something else. I think the same concept of applying what's called prompt Engineering.

14:35 Also applies when it comes to here, right? Its massive. Its massive from the prompts that you give this system, massively, dictate the outcome for you and that's our challenge is, how do we then intervene with the prompt to improve the prompt? Hm said, then actually make sure that there's a response worth having back And that you think that is such a Charlie? Do you think, do you think, do you think even like someone like Google or open it by themselves? They know how to enhance the prompt. Well, they must be thinking about that, right? Yeah, I've seen something very interesting. I use a tool, maybe you know it it's called Jasper. Jasper day.

15:21 I so just what actually, it came out. I think they were relying on opening. Our apis before chat, GPT came out. Yeah. And you know, they they can generate text and so on. So now they got a function, which is very cool. So when you type something in the chat box because they converted, there you are, there you are. I was like, you need to give some, you know, like the scripture. And what are you trying to generate? And so on. So now they made that as a chat box, same as the chat G, PT 1, and once you type the sentence, they have a small button that says, enhance my chat. I mean, right, they do something in the background.

16:04 And then, for example, if I say, I want a blog post for, I don't know, like something related to fintech and I say, enhance this prompt, you get something similar to this. This, you are an experienced writer in the sector of finance and explosion in the technology sector you have written a lot of articles on the topic. And today I want you to write for me and article that discussed, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah Arrow. It's something new. That caught my attention and always I'm asking, okay, like who really have the keys? I would say to get the language model to fully, you know, go Full Throttle. I Are still in the early days in the early stages here.

16:48 Yeah, really. There's a long way to go because I always experiment Charlie and, you know, I want to hear your experience every time and I interact with chat GPT honestly every day. So for the people who goes to my consultancy company website and you see the about us. So, I have myself, I have, you know, my partner and we have a logo for chat GPT and I call it chief chief. Content officer. Yeah. So what's your experience in this Charlie Island? We've been doing it for you know we've been using Automation and GPT and you know other systems specifically you know products that also help you build those automated systems.

17:37 We've been using them for years and obviously we've been using them in our strategy to actually execute our investing but also Now, we're thinking about how do we, how do we use it internally, you know, all of our developers use co-pilots. And, you know, utilize that to get better productivity. You know, we're using the assistant in are investing research, you know, it's, it's a, it's a great, it's a great tool, but I think, at the moment, there's a long way to go in the product, like, I think that all the products can improve a lot more. Over the next couple of years and there's going to be a lot of improvements that need to be made because it's still there is still a level of, you know, okay, writing a blog post one thing but you know making sure that your Investments and the kind of strategies and their kind of mathematics is all right, that's important.

18:32 You know, I'm in blog posts are important to write but like when you're dealing with kind of numbers and money, you need to make sure that like it's highly accurate. Yeah, you you mentioned something couple of times. You mentioned that automation plus the AI. Now, I've covered something related to these autonomous robots. You know, like something like Auto GP T there is ba ba GI, Do you think like really, we can reach a phase where let's say myself? I just have an idea in my mind, I go give it to the boss and the boss will do it for me. Are we going to reach something similar? Well, at the moment is have to be at asses kind of repetitive and known every time but you wouldn't be able to be like, will go create me this business.

19:32 Well, you might be able to, you might be able to create some light, very known businesses, you know, you might be able to give an agent in the not-too-distant future like you know, Make Me A Drop Shipping business and maybe it can actually work it out. There's no real reason for it to not write, whether it makes any money is a different story of course. But you know that that I can see being you know, potentially doable and I did and I think that, you know, in the next five years With what we're doing and we've got other companies are doing you know you one or two people could be having the power of you know a hedge fund, you know. Yeah yeah I think Charlie to your point maybe it's not like they will come up with the business idea but something I had a conversation with a friend the other day and I said listen we will come up with the idea but imagine for example there's A bought an AI powered boat, that goes and do all the heavy lifting for us.

20:37 For example, we have an idea, we give the idea that and then it would go, give a business name. Find a domain registered, the domain build a website building, build landing pages, social media handles, you know, and once it's done, come, hey, I've done this. What should I do next? Okay. Go and start to do marketing next. So, of course, and this is why I'm giving this example for people, People who are listening like, guys don't be afraid of a I like because you are in the control all the time. You wanted to say something Charlie anything. Oh well, no, I just thought that was really interesting. Yeah, you could definitely use generative AI to kind of see the business right with a prompt and then go and do all your setup process.

21:24 Give you options of different domains give you options of different handles. There's no reason why that yeah that that's achievable and they're like you say that you know we are the composers of of the system still, right? Absolutely. 100%. Actually it was for fun and it was like, it went viral. Someone who let Chad GPT act as hustle, hustle GPT. If you have seen this one, you know, as I have a, yeah, I have even some like friends that they tried it. I've seen two scenarios. I've seen one where they were able to sell.

22:06 Actually they came up with an idea. They build it quickly on a new coat too well. And then they sold. For I think for like five hundred dollars and then the next challenge back was to make something big, I need to check what's happened later but you know, the aim was to sell, I mean to create the website and then sell it for five thousand dollars. So right. Yeah. But again, like we will be in control all the time. Now besides I would say you know, fintech and trading where other Other hot Trends. Are you seeing where Religion Today? I can intersect and can disrupt markets. Mmm legal.

22:50 I think that's obvious. Okay, attacks and kind of accounting therapy, potentially, I'd say, okay, that's a bit of a random one. But I think that It might be the right time and people might adopt that sort of thing. I don't know what the regulation. Kind of free space would look like in that, I think that would be pretty difficult. I think that doctors could easily utilize it when it comes to getting the right information and then analyzing it across their, you know, their database of history and diagnosis. Yeah.

23:37 But also just helping dictation and making sure that the date they say you've got in your system is accurate and you can have picking out all the things. Yep. So I mean, I think it's going to, you know, move across all areas. Yeah, we're going to have exciting times. I had that would say well we interesting so because of all of this generative, AI in the increase in demand. And of data, all the data costs are going up dramatically which is going to create inflationary pressures. But then the AI conversely will create deflationary pressures. So this will be very interesting, very, very interesting indeed.

24:24 Now Charlie, make sure thing little bit gives you. You've been, you know, you told me you started with the gaming and you know, then you did this his shift. What do you advise fellow? People who are interested to take same path? Like, I'm sure like you have a lot of out, say things that you learn down the road and you tell yourself, I wish I knew that before. So what are like this in terms of being a Founder in terms of being a Founder? Yes, it don't forget founder. Yeah. Yeah. Being a Founder is Is interesting and it's a very fulfilling path. But, you know, I read a book once called. I'm thinking in bets it's by a poker player. Professional female poker player. I've seen the video above the, yeah. I know.

25:22 And you know for me one of the most important things has been that basically I detach the outcome from the decision. So when I decide to build a gaming startup I want to be happy because I want it to be obviously a profitable Endeavor or because I want to solve a specific problem. Or I want to help Gamers like get involved into Esports and Fillmore rewarded from their effort and passion they have for gaming. And then, you know, if I make the decision build that business, you know, I am I happy with the decision, right? Doesn't matter. Knows so much about the outcome. Like, I have some desired outcomes and I have some undesirable outcomes but that isn't, you know, my kind of thing I'd say is like, you know kind of focus on trying to make really good decisions with the information you have and they're not being too concerned, not going to be concerned about the outcomes but you don't I mean like it's you know, it's about kind of Not worrying about the outcome. So it's fine to to fail in a sense. Like don't be afraid of failure because you're gonna, you know, do mistakes.

26:30 Well, you know, there's a Howard marks is a famous investor and he had hit this meant famous than my right was. I beg to differ, mmm and the beg I beg to differ. Memo was all about if you want to get better than average returns, you have to be different from the market. And that's where the I beg to differ. Everyone wants to differ from the market, but if they differ from the market, they risk losing more than the market and underperforming. Yes, and ultimately, you just got to try and, you know, be different so that you can provide something kind of new to the market and value to kind of the things you're doing. Yeah, I agree with you on this one. Charlie Charlie, as we come to, you know, almost all to the end. I have a famous question.

27:26 What is the question that you wished me to ask? Can you repeat that please? What is the question that you wished? I asked you. Uh-oh, there was a, I went on a podcast recently and the question they asked was what's the one thing I could give you. No. What's the one thing? I could give the audience that I think everyone should like have listen to or read. Mmm. And I would say it's the no vowel podcast, how to get rich without getting lucky Gabriella podcast. But it's revolutionary. I think I'd like to listen to it but I get the book, but it's good.

28:12 The almanac and I'm like yeah it's an eye-opener actually. It's a very good book. I advise everyone I think. Yeah. I'm bootstrapping my podcast. So guys. Yeah, I think we need to dedicate some episodes, just about books. So let's see when we can delay. Yeah, sure. Charlie like really, I enjoyed the discussion, how I will make sure that people can have a look on Gambit. All right, so I'll put the link in the episode this mean description and also it will be 0 on YouTube you can as you can see now on Notify Apple podcast and all your favorite podcasting platforms. Thank you very much Charlie for being with us here today and for my audience, as usual, if you are first time here and you watching this on YouTube, don't forget to subscribe and give us a like if you are listening on your favorite podcasting platform.

29:10 Also, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast. We are trying to get really good content, and as you can see, we have the best of the best, like, Charlie walser's as today, he's the CEO. CEO of Gambit and we have a lineup of seos also coming and I hope as always to give me your feedback. If you have any questions, get them to me, you can reach out to me by email LinkedIn or Twitter, but I am the most active. If you are also interested to be a guest on the show, like, Charlie was today, don't hesitate to get in touch with me. I would be more than happy to discuss this as well. And as I say at the end, until we meet the next, Episode.

29:51 Thank you very much. Bye bye. Hit that subscribe button. Share the show with your tech-savvy friends and fellow entrepreneurs and leave us a review on your favorite podcast app. Your support means the world to us.