#153 Cybersecurity, SMBs, and Mental Health: An In-Depth Discussion with Nate Sheen

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From the heart of Dubai, where
tomorrow is being built today,

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to the world.
Welcome to the CTO Show with

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Mimet.
Here we redefine technology and

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reimagine possibilities.
With MIMET delve into the

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riveting realms of a I
cybersecurity and digital

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technology.
Experience the thrilling highs

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and lows of startups, immerse
yourself in the spirit of

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entrepreneurship, and witness
the future of Business

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Innovation being written in real
time.

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Now, without further ado, let's
TuneIn and explore the future.

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Hello and welcome to a new
episode of the CTO show with

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Mehmet.
My name is Mehmet and as you

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know when you check is old, I
talk about different topics from

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cybersecurity, digital
transformation, emerging

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technologies.
And also recently I've started

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to do more and more one to one
conversations with

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entrepreneurs, startup founders
and people who are subject

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matter experts.
And today I'm pleased to have

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with me Nate.
Nate, thank you very much for

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being on the show.
Well, thanks for having me.

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Yeah.
Can you just little bit tell us

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about yourself and about what
you are doing currently?

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Yeah.
So, I'm Nate.

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I'm the President and founder of
Astoria.

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We're AIT and cybersecurity
service based out of Cleveland,

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OH.
And so we manage aspects or the

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the whole picture of clients, IT
and cybersecurity and of the

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businesses.
Over 7 years old now and it's a

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great space to be in and a lot
of fun to work in that space.

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That's great.
My first question, which is kind

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of maybe traditional, but
personally I love to to

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understand more.
Cybersecurity is not the easy

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career path someone can take,
right?

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So what have led you to choose
to be in this space and to start

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your company?
And I think you have to be in

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cybersecurity in IT these days,
especially in the smaller

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companies, the mid market, IT
kind of gets served that oh

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you're going to, you're going to
handle the security, right,

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because you're dealing with all
of these other things.

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And so we've kind of been forced
into it now me starting and

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founding my own company, I
wasn't necessarily forced, but I

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definitely see it as an
opportunity.

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Better serve our clients and
make them better.

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It's a little bit different than
the IT piece of our business

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because it's really more about
process, it's about philosophy,

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it's about culture and it's less
about the technology cuz you can

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have a lot of great technology
in place.

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But if you don't set it up in a
secure manner then it doesn't

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really help you at all if it's
been taken over by a bad actor

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or somebody malicious.
So that's that's why we got

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until we see such a need in that
especially in the small mid

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market area where we really
serve it is so needed and there

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so needs to be a conversation
about it.

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And So what we bring is just
like framework and say you don't

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know what you're doing, that's
okay we do and this works well

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let's start with.
Here with you that's that's

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great to know.
Now next of course like

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cybersecurity is is a very, very
large topic and you know like we

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can talk maybe 4 hours about it
but of course and again and you

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know similar to what you are
doing.

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I also try to help as much as
possible.

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Small, medium businesses and
startups mainly to help in

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dealing with their cybersecurity
issues.

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But what are and I think that we
can make it, I mean it's a

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global, it's coming across all
geographies and it's not

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different in the US than any
other part in the world.

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Or this reason I'm asking what
are you the key challenges from

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your perspective that Smb's are
facing when it comes to cyber?

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I believe it's really buy in
from a culture perspective.

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I don't believe that the whole
organization is bought into it.

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So the first thing we have to
start with this is a culture

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change that from the top down
we're going to believe in the

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security of it.
Because if your CEO doesn't

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believe in your password policy
or implementing 2 factor

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authentication.
Then why would the receptionist

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who answers the phones goes
through and all those hoops that

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need to go through to protect
their accounts?

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I guess the biggest challenge in
it and everything else is

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primarily easy after that if
everybody is really on the same

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side of implementing it as a
policy or a process in a couple.

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Yeah.
Now it's hard to sometimes also

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I think to as you said, not only
to get the buy in, sometimes

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they get the buy in, they
understand the issue, but you

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know they say I don't have money
for this.

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Well, it's not happening to us
and something similar I would

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say, but like in the 1st place
And I think let's go back a

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little bit to basics like why?
These organizations in

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particular are more like, I
would say vulnerable to being

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attacked in your opinion more of
course enterprises, they are

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also like vulnerable, but why?
Why the SMV should be worried

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that?
Can you put some lights on on

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some of the aspects that you
know that might affect their

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businesses?
Sure.

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It's a it's a process issue.
It's not a technology issue.

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They don't have a plan in place.
They haven't written up any kind

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of process of what do we do if
or This is why we do this.

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And so we use a lot of the
concepts from the the book

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traction.
I would tell anybody who's

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looking to build a cybersecurity
policy or process for their

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company.
Or it it would just be great for

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an S MB to implement the entire
traction system in their entire

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company.
But we bring that from the IT

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and cybersecurity space and say
what is the issue that you're

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dealing with?
Let's identify those issues.

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Let's discuss what it's going to
take to do that why is it

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happening and solve it together.
And we work through that because

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usually of the longest period of
time it takes when a hack

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happens is.
Not really fixing the problem.

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We have to first start where I
just said and identified what's

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actually happening, what's
actually been affected.

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And they don't know because you
know, who has the password, who

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has the codes, who has the
access, what application is.

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I didn't know we had that.
I didn't know we were spending

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money on it.
And that's a lot of the

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discussion that goes around when
those moments happen as opposed

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to the companies who get, you
know, hacked and they have a

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planning process in place.
They just grab the playbook and

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they go through it and they
recovered from it a lot faster.

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And those are the businesses
that stay in business.

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We've seen a couple of those
republicly in the last year or

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two businesses survived some
ransomware attacks because they

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haven't played in place when it
happens.

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Now you mentioned a couple of
things, Nate.

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And if, if, if I was your
customer right and.

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Like I ask you, I need list of
items that I have to fix like I

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mean in general like high level
I would say and you have to come

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up with let's say top five
things that I should have.

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What do you think the most
important ones would be?

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Yeah.
And this I'm going to get really

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general because every customer
specific, so typically my.

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Typically my customers have no
idea what they have that's

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they're asking us to figure that
out.

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So and they'll say you're going
to need a, you're going to need

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a password policy in place,
you're going to need two factor

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authentication turned on that
would that would be step one,

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you're going to need some
clarity and documentation on all

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of your systems, that's your
computers, your servers, your

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network gear, all of those
things in place.

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And then I'm going to need an
offboarding and an onboarding.

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User policy that's going to
connect tenants to your HR

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process, your hiring and firing
or somebody gets laid off those

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types of policies.
What do I do when a new employee

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starts and how do I know, as
your IT or Cybersecurities have

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and somebody says I need access
to these systems, how do I know

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who to get that approved from?
How do I know who should or

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should not have access to
certain systems?

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And then the another piece in
that would be, it's just having

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good robust systems in place
that's making sure that systems

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are not dates, making sure
they're updated, getting rid of

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old hardware that maybe has
security vulnerabilities into

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patching those things, which is
a consistent thing, making sure

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those are all in place.
And then the really the 5th step

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was just that ongoing management
taking all of that and just

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managing that on a consistent
basis and inconsistent or

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knowing what happened when
that's really your ground level

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of those items.
And then there's a lot of other

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things that we can add into that
that really has to be your basic

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of your infrastructure there.
And what about awareness, Nate,

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What do you think?
As far as like cybersecurity,

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like training and awareness, is
that what you're thinking?

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Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I think, don't you, that I

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always feel like that's like
kind of like Level 2, like we

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gotta get these basics in place
because a lot of times they

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don't have that.
Because what's the point?

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If I do a bunch of training on
things that are working, I'm

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really more of a fan.
Of.

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And we're working, and we're
developing this consistently,

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but doing more.
Kind of like making it fun.

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So we do like 3 Truths in a Lie
game.

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I don't know if you've ever
played that game.

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So we'll do like a cybersecurity
edition with the staff and make

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it more fun to go through that.
Do some cybersecurity trivia.

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Rather than having me or
somebody on my staff sitting

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there and giving you a slideshow
on e-mail security, let's

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actually do something fun and
interactive and actually have

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the users engage with that.
We're developing a couple of

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other things, of course.
Do you like some of the phishing

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tests?
So we do some scoring and some

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prizes, like, you know, Jim and
accounting did really well

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because you know, he caught all
the phishing emails that we sent

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out from the test system this
month.

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So he gets a $25 Amazon card.
Or things like that to kind of

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make it fun and try to help make
the culture of security

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something that everybody wants
because there's some more fun

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built into it, and make it a
better culture rather than a

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culture of you're in trouble
because you failed on this test.

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Yeah.
Like also one of the things that

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I hear a lot is.
You know the landscape keeps

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changing very fast at this.
I'm talking from customs

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perspective at or then they say
we cannot keep you know like up

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to date with what's happening.
How are you seeing, you know,

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the rise of, you know, this fast
changing technologies affecting

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customers and at the same time,
you know like making it more

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challenging for people like us.
Like for example AI like we need

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to keep up with AI like how we
can also ourselves keep up to

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date so we can first protect our
self and then protect our

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clients.
Sure.

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I think I see a lot of seer from
people on like the marginal

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SEESO, marginal CTO side,
service side.

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Where they're kind of like
afraid of even trying the new

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technologies, even from the rest
of maybe losing their jobs or

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they're not sure of the security
probabilities in it.

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I'm really from the school of
thought.

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It looks embrace it, let's learn
it, let's poke some holes in it.

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And so I love getting to know
new technologies.

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That's one of the fun pieces of
being a CTO and trying out those

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technologies and seeing where
they.

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Where they don't understand any
of the vendors that are in that

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space, but it really does take a
lot of time and energy to read.

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You know, all the publications,
check the vulnerabilities, talk

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with peers, go to the
conferences and I think that's

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where the NSFB market, they can
really rely well on having a

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fractional CTO, having the
fractional cybersecurity

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officer.
Because there's no way you can

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really afford somebody full time
to do that.

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And that's really where the
fractional is like kind of huge

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right now.
Because the CEO, like some CEO's

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are really good at like learning
that stuff for themselves, but

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they don't have time.
They've got a lot of other

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aspects in the business to run.
So when they can say she's

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somebody like that, hey, can you
help me out with this and force.

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Really, you know, small cost
honestly as comparing to have so

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much full time on payroll doing
that they can contract one of

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those fractional services and
they can really save themselves

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a lot of time.
So I think I think that is

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00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:40,220
really the rise in that industry
of that managed security side

227
00:14:40,220 --> 00:14:44,060
that fractional signs that a lot
of SMP's need to take a look at

228
00:14:44,860 --> 00:14:48,100
and it was really what's at
their disposal there.

229
00:14:49,690 --> 00:14:52,290
So they don't have to be afraid
of it, they really don't because

230
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with the workforce issues that
are out there, the A I is just

231
00:14:57,610 --> 00:15:01,650
amazing what it can do for you.
But I also think on the other

232
00:15:01,650 --> 00:15:05,570
hand there's some risk that
comes with that, not really sure

233
00:15:05,570 --> 00:15:09,010
what it's doing and some of
these things are are going live

234
00:15:09,010 --> 00:15:12,130
and doing more and more things.
I do think there's a lot of

235
00:15:12,130 --> 00:15:14,810
risks in what you have to
consider as you know you can't

236
00:15:14,810 --> 00:15:17,000
just.
Forget about it and walk away

237
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,480
from it.
You have to keep an eye on it

238
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,440
and make sure you understand
what it's doing.

239
00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:23,760
It's just like having a new
employee, kind of half you're

240
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,760
going to on board that AI and
make sure that you actually do

241
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:28,360
it right.
So that'll go back to my

242
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,200
process.
How do you want to board your

243
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,640
AI?
Yeah, made you mention

244
00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,120
ransomware.
And of course, like everyone

245
00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,400
knows about ransomware and you
know it's the number one, it's

246
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,620
on the top of mind of every.
I mean when we talk enterprise,

247
00:15:44,620 --> 00:15:50,300
it's top of mind of FPC, so even
on the board level, but other

248
00:15:50,300 --> 00:15:54,260
than that somewhere like.
Where do you see the biggest?

249
00:15:55,260 --> 00:16:00,220
Threats for businesses in
general and because we've talked

250
00:16:00,220 --> 00:16:03,740
about small video businesses,
what would be the other big

251
00:16:03,740 --> 00:16:06,860
threats currently?
Yeah, I think there's a lot of

252
00:16:07,020 --> 00:16:10,890
fraud that goes out there.
Just not even straight

253
00:16:10,890 --> 00:16:15,170
ransomware, but just on the
fraud side of payment schemes

254
00:16:16,210 --> 00:16:20,730
and tying that with like
employee complacency or employee

255
00:16:21,090 --> 00:16:25,570
poor communication.
So I think if you don't have

256
00:16:25,570 --> 00:16:29,250
good communication with your
employees, they don't know what

257
00:16:29,810 --> 00:16:33,970
is expected of them, they're
more susceptible and you're more

258
00:16:33,970 --> 00:16:38,440
susceptible to fraud.
And we we see that a lot where

259
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,280
they don't even have to
necessarily get hacked, just the

260
00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:48,080
employee 1 wired $50,000 to the
wrong vendor or the the fake

261
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,920
vendors.
And that is such a huge risk

262
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:55,520
that companies need to put more
controls in place there and have

263
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,720
better communication with that
staff that has access to those

264
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,040
things to make sure they think
twice about this is strange

265
00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:10,089
maybe as you call and verify.
Before we actually send money to

266
00:17:10,089 --> 00:17:13,290
this vendor, we see that happen
a lot, especially when you're

267
00:17:13,290 --> 00:17:18,089
busy with projects and you
aren't really following what's

268
00:17:18,089 --> 00:17:23,490
actually being e-mail fraud is a
really big piece of that and and

269
00:17:23,490 --> 00:17:27,010
that's probably the next risk
after ransomware.

270
00:17:27,010 --> 00:17:28,850
Next.
I really think that more

271
00:17:28,850 --> 00:17:30,250
companies are losing money that
way.

272
00:17:30,250 --> 00:17:32,570
They just start reporting it as
much as rates somewhere.

273
00:17:34,820 --> 00:17:38,220
Yeah, that makes sense.
And just for the audience to to

274
00:17:38,460 --> 00:17:44,660
put some, I would say by
observations, it's much easier

275
00:17:44,660 --> 00:17:47,380
for the hackers actually.
Or let's say, let's say they are

276
00:17:47,380 --> 00:17:50,460
not hackers in this case, they
are like bad actors.

277
00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:56,020
It's much easier for them to
grab you out of of your own area

278
00:17:56,020 --> 00:18:00,300
to somewhere else where they can
do these frauds rather than just

279
00:18:00,380 --> 00:18:02,790
entering.
It's of course they need to

280
00:18:02,790 --> 00:18:04,590
still do some more.
They need to do social

281
00:18:04,590 --> 00:18:07,990
engineering to convince you to
click that lane.

282
00:18:08,390 --> 00:18:11,030
But yeah, it's much easier for
them because they don't have to

283
00:18:11,070 --> 00:18:15,670
cross any firewall, they don't
have to cross any any like

284
00:18:16,270 --> 00:18:19,030
security measures.
They just all what they need to

285
00:18:19,030 --> 00:18:22,470
convince you to go and click
that lane, right.

286
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:25,350
So 100% I agree with you Nate.
Now.

287
00:18:26,620 --> 00:18:30,220
Like I want now to ask from a
different perspective as a

288
00:18:30,260 --> 00:18:34,420
service provider yourself.
So you are someone who help

289
00:18:34,500 --> 00:18:38,260
other customers protecting their
data, making sure that

290
00:18:38,260 --> 00:18:41,900
everything is up and running the
best way the processes that you

291
00:18:41,900 --> 00:18:45,980
mentioned, but of course
yourself made you have to choose

292
00:18:46,340 --> 00:18:50,380
solutions.
So I never asked this before and

293
00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:52,620
I really wonder about it.
So when you want.

294
00:18:54,030 --> 00:18:56,550
You know, like because
cybersecurity is a very huge,

295
00:18:56,870 --> 00:19:01,790
saturated kind of space.
Now if I knock on your door

296
00:19:01,790 --> 00:19:05,070
today and I'm telling you, I'm a
cybersecurity vendor and I work

297
00:19:05,070 --> 00:19:11,830
with MSPs, so where would you
give me 30 minutes of your time

298
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:13,790
to listen?
What would grab your attention

299
00:19:13,870 --> 00:19:17,830
in other way from an MSP
perspective, what are your top

300
00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:20,310
priorities when it comes to
selecting vendors?

301
00:19:21,550 --> 00:19:27,850
Wow.
I I probably get a dozen or more

302
00:19:27,970 --> 00:19:31,250
emails a day from somebody
trying to sell me some type of

303
00:19:31,250 --> 00:19:38,370
cybersecurity platform software
that's going to save me or my

304
00:19:38,370 --> 00:19:42,050
company or my customers in
Subway.

305
00:19:42,810 --> 00:19:46,690
So it's very, very noisy.
So I don't want to give up

306
00:19:46,770 --> 00:19:51,890
anybody too many ideas because I
I so many sales people.

307
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:59,560
I would say that a lot of these
companies are not very personal

308
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,520
at all.
I get a ton of emails, I get a

309
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,400
ton of calls and they really
approach it in a lot of ways

310
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,800
similar to how the the
fraudsters approach it, where

311
00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,760
they try to trick my stats to
get me on the phone because of

312
00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,840
course I have gatekeepers.
You know, I've grown the company

313
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,320
tool point works.
I don't have to answer every

314
00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,520
single phone call and I'm in
meetings and so they've got to

315
00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,380
take.
The the time that goes through

316
00:20:25,380 --> 00:20:30,740
there, I will say those who have
taken the time, I've actually

317
00:20:30,740 --> 00:20:34,740
had some vendors who will set up
and meet me in person and say,

318
00:20:34,740 --> 00:20:37,500
hey, I'm going to be in your
area and I'm actually going to

319
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:40,900
come prove that I'm a real
person and I really care about

320
00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:43,900
more business and that has
really set it apart.

321
00:20:43,940 --> 00:20:48,660
Give them 30 or 60 minutes of my
time because it's such a noisy

322
00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:53,100
space and not one software is
going to save it for me.

323
00:20:53,620 --> 00:20:57,420
But a lot of what I look at and
how I choose vendors, we're

324
00:20:57,420 --> 00:21:01,500
looking at the culture of the
company that we're working with,

325
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:03,420
because I don't want them to be
complacent.

326
00:21:03,460 --> 00:21:06,740
I want them to be really good
and I want them to match my

327
00:21:06,740 --> 00:21:09,380
company's culture.
So if they're going to talk to

328
00:21:09,380 --> 00:21:11,420
me, they're going to talk to my
staff.

329
00:21:11,740 --> 00:21:13,580
We're going to really work
through it together.

330
00:21:13,580 --> 00:21:16,300
It's just stop me making the
decision because everybody's

331
00:21:16,300 --> 00:21:18,260
going to have to work with.
It's going to be part of the

332
00:21:18,260 --> 00:21:21,540
light of our company.
We're going to know a lot about

333
00:21:21,540 --> 00:21:23,970
it.
But those who are really pouring

334
00:21:23,970 --> 00:21:27,850
into us, really working on
making us better and helping us

335
00:21:27,890 --> 00:21:33,290
understand security and those
things in place is really what's

336
00:21:33,290 --> 00:21:34,690
gonna be there.
And there might be some really

337
00:21:34,690 --> 00:21:37,450
great companies out there that
do that we're not working with

338
00:21:37,530 --> 00:21:41,850
yet or we haven't worked with
because maybe our culture and

339
00:21:41,850 --> 00:21:45,930
their culture just haven't, we
haven't matched up and so.

340
00:21:46,350 --> 00:21:49,910
We go to a cybersecurity show
and there's always 150 vendors

341
00:21:49,910 --> 00:21:52,910
in the room and they're all
selling cybersecurity stuff.

342
00:21:54,150 --> 00:21:57,830
There's no way that anybody
needs 150 cybersecurity vendors.

343
00:21:57,870 --> 00:22:00,230
It's just too confusing.
There's too much crossover.

344
00:22:00,710 --> 00:22:03,830
And so we really have to look
our threat landscape internally

345
00:22:04,110 --> 00:22:07,150
and try to keep that as a
smaller package because it makes

346
00:22:07,190 --> 00:22:10,750
us less disorganized.
There's less training to go

347
00:22:10,750 --> 00:22:13,750
through and trying to keep that
into one or two or three

348
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:16,510
buckets.
Rather than 15 or 20 buckets

349
00:22:16,510 --> 00:22:19,590
because a lot of MSP's out there
talking to some of the MSP

350
00:22:19,590 --> 00:22:22,430
owners have a lot of products
they bought because they were

351
00:22:22,430 --> 00:22:26,550
shining and they never use them.
And that's something I

352
00:22:26,550 --> 00:22:30,310
definitely want to keep down, to
keep my costs down so that I can

353
00:22:31,070 --> 00:22:34,630
keep better pricing for my
clients and actually pay my

354
00:22:34,630 --> 00:22:38,310
people better too because we
have more cash on hand to be

355
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:43,450
able to do that.
Continuing on that, do you think

356
00:22:43,650 --> 00:22:46,330
we have a lot of high currency
in the market?

357
00:22:46,610 --> 00:22:51,210
I mean, do you agree with me
that we have a lot of, as you

358
00:22:51,210 --> 00:22:53,330
said, noise from marketing
perspective?

359
00:22:53,970 --> 00:22:58,330
Oh, absolutely.
It's always this product is

360
00:22:58,330 --> 00:23:01,770
going to save you money.
Or if you don't buy my product,

361
00:23:01,770 --> 00:23:04,690
like you're going to get hacked
like you've been the shows and

362
00:23:04,690 --> 00:23:07,650
it's just like, Oh my gosh, if
I'm going to hear one more time

363
00:23:07,690 --> 00:23:11,570
if I don't buy your products.
I will be hacked.

364
00:23:11,570 --> 00:23:13,290
Like, I would just get up and
leave the room.

365
00:23:13,730 --> 00:23:17,050
I'm just like, well, I'm going
to go get some more food or

366
00:23:17,050 --> 00:23:19,890
something like go hang out in
the hallway and network out.

367
00:23:20,330 --> 00:23:23,810
I'm kind of tired of that story.
I think there's a lot of good

368
00:23:23,810 --> 00:23:25,810
things out there.
Take the time to get to know me

369
00:23:25,810 --> 00:23:29,050
as a person or company, as a
culture, and see if we're

370
00:23:29,650 --> 00:23:33,090
probably a great product.
But just because I use your

371
00:23:33,090 --> 00:23:35,490
product doesn't mean that I
won't get hacked because there's

372
00:23:35,490 --> 00:23:37,930
so much more to the story than
your product.

373
00:23:38,570 --> 00:23:40,210
Yeah.
Let me add one thing.

374
00:23:40,210 --> 00:23:43,810
I myself, I work at vendor side
back in the days.

375
00:23:43,810 --> 00:23:47,050
Right now I'm in, I have my own
company, I'm a consultant by

376
00:23:47,050 --> 00:23:50,650
myself and let me tell everyone
I hope like there are some

377
00:23:50,650 --> 00:23:55,330
people there.
My old world depict days hearing

378
00:23:55,330 --> 00:23:58,610
me.
And this is feedback not from

379
00:23:58,610 --> 00:24:04,170
me, it's from customers direct.
Never ever come to me with a

380
00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:07,810
feeling.
I mean fear, you know?

381
00:24:08,540 --> 00:24:11,460
Caring message.
We don't like this Okay.

382
00:24:11,460 --> 00:24:14,940
We know that we have missing
components today in our network.

383
00:24:14,940 --> 00:24:17,740
We got this.
But if you got to come to me and

384
00:24:17,740 --> 00:24:21,220
tell me you I will be hacked if
I don't buy your product, guess

385
00:24:21,220 --> 00:24:22,780
what?
I will not buy your product.

386
00:24:23,260 --> 00:24:26,700
I'll prefer to get.
I've listened to this just two

387
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:32,580
days back from a customer I was
talking to and he said anyone

388
00:24:32,780 --> 00:24:35,060
nowadays who come with this
messaging to me.

389
00:24:36,290 --> 00:24:37,970
I'm saying sorry, I don't care
what you have.

390
00:24:37,970 --> 00:24:41,890
I don't care about your solution
because you going to go go get

391
00:24:41,930 --> 00:24:46,690
fix your messaging first or
really shape it in another way.

392
00:24:46,690 --> 00:24:51,410
As you said, show me what the
profit would be, don't show me

393
00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:55,570
like I going to be had so they
don't like it 100% agree with

394
00:24:56,330 --> 00:24:58,330
now.
I agree so much.

395
00:24:58,490 --> 00:25:01,170
That's good.
Yeah, so shifting gives a little

396
00:25:01,170 --> 00:25:02,810
bit.
While I was preparing, I always

397
00:25:02,810 --> 00:25:04,930
try to find out a few things,
so.

398
00:25:05,420 --> 00:25:08,540
I see like you, you you talked
about the relation between

399
00:25:08,860 --> 00:25:13,980
mental health and cybersecurity.
I know it's a very you know, I I

400
00:25:13,980 --> 00:25:16,460
covered mental health, but it
was not about cybersecurity.

401
00:25:16,460 --> 00:25:21,180
We covered just for tech people,
for startup founders what you

402
00:25:21,180 --> 00:25:23,860
can tell us, you know, and
especially for people who works

403
00:25:23,860 --> 00:25:27,180
in cybersecurity about the
importance of mental health.

404
00:25:28,020 --> 00:25:31,940
Yeah, So I work with a lot of,
you know, C-Suite executives,

405
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:36,740
founders, CEO's, Cto's.
And what I have found was there,

406
00:25:36,740 --> 00:25:39,420
they're really stressed out.
There's a lot of things to know

407
00:25:39,940 --> 00:25:42,700
what's happening with a I what
happens if I they have, they've

408
00:25:42,700 --> 00:25:49,100
got pressure from, you know, my
boss or my board to save money

409
00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:52,300
here or not be hacked.
And this thing is going on and

410
00:25:52,660 --> 00:25:55,500
it's really taxing on their
mental health.

411
00:25:55,980 --> 00:25:59,860
And so if you go to my website,
trustthestory.com, how much free

412
00:25:59,860 --> 00:26:03,240
relates?
Believe that the trust is what

413
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,200
needs to be there.
We become a trusted advisor and

414
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,200
that really become a trusted
consultant with them.

415
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:14,000
And I've been shared with a lot
of stories about just mental

416
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:19,360
health struggles from these
people about they are just so

417
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:22,200
stressed out and it's so much
more than that.

418
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,440
And I say and this is my
messaging to people, I'm saying

419
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,640
I'm not the only one out there
that does this, but I'm saying

420
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,850
if you trust me.
Let me take that off of your

421
00:26:31,850 --> 00:26:36,290
plate and you know that I can
handle it and you can help focus

422
00:26:36,370 --> 00:26:39,890
on your mental health and take
one extra sitting away from you.

423
00:26:40,970 --> 00:26:47,530
There is a really high mental
health like disparity in the

424
00:26:47,530 --> 00:26:49,770
C-Suite where people aren't
taking care of themselves and if

425
00:26:49,770 --> 00:26:52,330
you aren't taking care of
yourselves, then you aren't able

426
00:26:52,330 --> 00:26:54,610
to take care of the rest of your
organization and you're really

427
00:26:54,610 --> 00:26:58,490
are able to do your job.
But if you're in the text field.

428
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:01,520
It's just really stressful
because you have all these

429
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,800
things coming at you you already
probably have some challenges

430
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,240
with like vendors telling you to
be freaked out and scared of

431
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:09,680
everything.
So you're running scared and

432
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:14,400
you're making decisions scared.
Well really need to do is be

433
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,000
able to slow down and say okay,
I'm not going to do this out of

434
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,840
a fear base thing which is not a
healthy place.

435
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,400
Well let's do it out of a data
let's do it out of a trust that

436
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,640
for a say who are my trusted
people around me and and put

437
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,660
yourself.
Into that that place of safety

438
00:27:30,660 --> 00:27:33,180
where you can actually start
working and putting it together

439
00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:35,220
well.
I really think it's so important

440
00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:38,540
to start with your own personal
mental health and start working

441
00:27:38,540 --> 00:27:41,540
on that and helping you get to a
better place.

442
00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:44,340
Because we make these
reactionary decisions that

443
00:27:44,340 --> 00:27:48,740
damage ourselves personally and
the business and we are not able

444
00:27:48,740 --> 00:27:52,060
to make good decisions because
we really didn't put that.

445
00:27:53,730 --> 00:27:56,850
In front of and things.
So it really does assess the

446
00:27:56,850 --> 00:27:59,970
organization more than anything
else is to have that mental

447
00:27:59,970 --> 00:28:02,810
health in place.
And we as an organization, my

448
00:28:02,810 --> 00:28:06,890
organization is really focused
on helping people feel healthier

449
00:28:06,930 --> 00:28:09,890
in that way.
And one way that we should do

450
00:28:09,890 --> 00:28:12,450
that, one aspect that we do is
take that stress of

451
00:28:12,450 --> 00:28:16,650
cybersecurity out through play.
Create insight.

452
00:28:17,970 --> 00:28:22,090
Now the question I want to ask.
Of course other than you know

453
00:28:22,090 --> 00:28:23,790
many people they.
Say.

454
00:28:23,870 --> 00:28:27,270
I want to go and become a
professional in cybersecurity,

455
00:28:27,710 --> 00:28:30,670
right?
So in addition to the skills, of

456
00:28:30,670 --> 00:28:33,350
course they need to get to know
how you know they need to go the

457
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:36,670
trainings.
But what other nontechnical

458
00:28:36,670 --> 00:28:40,710
skills you would advise someone
who want to choose this carried

459
00:28:40,710 --> 00:28:44,950
path to have?
You need to make sure.

460
00:28:45,030 --> 00:28:49,630
I think you should a personality
test and you should have a high

461
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:53,810
sense of empathy.
If you can't empathize with

462
00:28:53,810 --> 00:28:59,290
people, understand where they're
coming from, I don't think it's

463
00:28:59,290 --> 00:29:03,450
the career path for you.
I think it's very, very

464
00:29:03,450 --> 00:29:09,810
important to care about people.
And it's it's not that saying if

465
00:29:09,810 --> 00:29:12,090
you don't feel like you can
counsel people, if you don't

466
00:29:12,090 --> 00:29:15,170
feel like you come alongside, if
you don't feel like from time to

467
00:29:15,170 --> 00:29:18,050
time it's going to be up to you
to give somebody a hug and say

468
00:29:18,050 --> 00:29:21,330
it's going to be all right.
This isn't the career really for

469
00:29:21,330 --> 00:29:23,430
you.
There's a lot of other great

470
00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:25,950
pieces in the 10th world that
you can work in.

471
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:31,390
But in cybersecurity, a lot have
to really be just a trustful,

472
00:29:31,390 --> 00:29:35,550
loving person because you're
going to see some stuff happen

473
00:29:36,070 --> 00:29:39,630
and people are going to be at
their worst and they're going to

474
00:29:39,630 --> 00:29:42,270
be really stressed out.
And you can't take it personally

475
00:29:42,590 --> 00:29:46,350
and you have to say let's stop
and listen and kind of grieve

476
00:29:46,350 --> 00:29:49,630
the loss that is your data
center.

477
00:29:50,190 --> 00:29:52,950
That is all of your employee
records.

478
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:55,270
That is, yes, this is going to
be expensive.

479
00:29:55,710 --> 00:29:57,630
Yes, we're going to have to call
the attorneys.

480
00:29:57,870 --> 00:30:01,350
Yes, we're going to have to call
the state authorities in here

481
00:30:01,350 --> 00:30:03,070
and we're going to have to work
through some stuff.

482
00:30:03,630 --> 00:30:06,030
This is going to really be
terrible today.

483
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:09,750
But let's take a minute and
breathe and and get through it

484
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:11,190
and really be that counselor
with them.

485
00:30:11,830 --> 00:30:15,310
That is really the ultimate job
in cybersecurity.

486
00:30:15,310 --> 00:30:19,030
That's the job that I personally
do in my company.

487
00:30:19,550 --> 00:30:23,830
It's not an easy job and there's
a lot of other pieces like if

488
00:30:23,830 --> 00:30:25,790
you don't have a high sense of
empathy, I'm not saying that

489
00:30:25,790 --> 00:30:29,190
somebody couldn't be on my team,
but it's probably not gonna be

490
00:30:29,190 --> 00:30:32,310
the frontline thing.
I may have to go and fix the

491
00:30:32,310 --> 00:30:34,230
servers that they take with
ransomware.

492
00:30:34,510 --> 00:30:38,390
That may be your job.
So there are a lot of aspects to

493
00:30:38,390 --> 00:30:42,070
that field, but I think the more
empathy you can have, the better

494
00:30:42,070 --> 00:30:46,350
off you're going to do in.
The stage great advice again

495
00:30:46,950 --> 00:30:50,950
made as we are even coming to
the end just something not

496
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:53,910
related to technology is just
something because you know again

497
00:30:54,190 --> 00:30:59,510
you you've done great job I I've
seen you know some of the work

498
00:30:59,510 --> 00:31:03,310
I've done before So what advice
you can give.

499
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,360
For someone who won't start
their own businesses and how

500
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,280
they can have the same success
that you you.

501
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,000
It's going to start your own
business.

502
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,960
I'm going to tell you it's it's
not easy, but it's it doesn't

503
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,000
has to be hard.
You just need to 1st focus on

504
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,960
the team that you want to build
and you've got to actually take

505
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,680
that jump.
I should have taken the jump.

506
00:31:33,850 --> 00:31:38,610
Long before I took the jump on.
And you may not be successful

507
00:31:38,650 --> 00:31:43,690
the first time.
So this is my third try at doing

508
00:31:43,690 --> 00:31:48,290
this business, and I got told
along the way, you know you

509
00:31:48,290 --> 00:31:51,010
can't do this.
It's too expensive.

510
00:31:51,010 --> 00:31:54,570
You're going to, you know you're
not going to do well with it,

511
00:31:55,050 --> 00:31:57,770
and you have to push those
voices aside.

512
00:31:58,290 --> 00:32:01,610
You need to find those people
who are going to be your

513
00:32:01,650 --> 00:32:04,370
cheerleaders.
And let them speak into your

514
00:32:04,370 --> 00:32:06,650
life.
And you can't be afraid of

515
00:32:06,650 --> 00:32:10,450
failures, and failures aren't
necessarily like going to kill

516
00:32:10,450 --> 00:32:13,130
your business.
And even not having enough money

517
00:32:13,250 --> 00:32:15,690
doesn't kill your business.
It's really about your mental

518
00:32:16,010 --> 00:32:18,770
stability.
So I think anybody's going to

519
00:32:18,770 --> 00:32:21,370
start a business.
The first point of action is, is

520
00:32:21,570 --> 00:32:25,610
go get a counselor and have
somebody to talk to, whether

521
00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:28,330
it's professional counselor,
whether it's your minister,

522
00:32:28,330 --> 00:32:31,130
whether it's your priest.
Go talk to somebody, make sure

523
00:32:31,130 --> 00:32:35,300
you have somebody to just.
Go talk to you on a regular

524
00:32:35,300 --> 00:32:37,780
basis.
That's other than your spouse,

525
00:32:37,780 --> 00:32:41,220
because this could be really,
really hard on your spouse and

526
00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:45,060
you can do it.
But getting to that first year

527
00:32:45,060 --> 00:32:47,620
or two is going to be the
hardest point because you really

528
00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:51,700
have to prove yourself to
yourself and then you can

529
00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:53,420
continue to weather the
challenges.

530
00:32:53,420 --> 00:32:55,820
Because the matter at what point
in business you're in, there's

531
00:32:55,820 --> 00:32:58,020
always going to be another
challenge that comes along.

532
00:32:58,020 --> 00:32:59,340
You're going to have to
overtime.

533
00:32:59,700 --> 00:33:04,730
So don't operate in here.
You just, you have to wake up

534
00:33:04,730 --> 00:33:07,410
and say, oh, it's fun.
And that's one of the things I

535
00:33:07,410 --> 00:33:10,370
love to do, I wake up every day
is say, oh, there's these

536
00:33:10,370 --> 00:33:13,530
problems in my company, but I
get to come into my company

537
00:33:13,530 --> 00:33:18,770
every single day and see that.
So you just got to get up and do

538
00:33:18,770 --> 00:33:19,570
it.
I don't have to.

539
00:33:19,570 --> 00:33:21,050
Sometimes I just wake up and I
have to.

540
00:33:21,970 --> 00:33:24,930
I get to go to my company.
That's what's important to me.

541
00:33:25,410 --> 00:33:27,650
I get to do this, I get to build
this legacy.

542
00:33:27,690 --> 00:33:30,850
I get to help peoples.
I am achieving the vision.

543
00:33:31,180 --> 00:33:34,740
That I set out the deal and
nothing can replace that.

544
00:33:34,820 --> 00:33:37,740
And so that's what you have to
remind yourself of every single

545
00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:41,700
day.
I would agree on the point of

546
00:33:41,900 --> 00:33:46,220
asking for help and I think we
are living in a time which is,

547
00:33:47,540 --> 00:33:51,060
you know, I don't remember a
time where it was so easy to

548
00:33:51,060 --> 00:33:55,700
reach people for help because
I'm a little bit from all

549
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:59,220
generations, I would say.
At my time, LinkedIn when I was

550
00:33:59,220 --> 00:34:01,780
young, when kiddin wasn't there,
you know a lot of of.

551
00:34:01,780 --> 00:34:03,180
These things weren't there.
And.

552
00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:06,060
You know, but now you can as you
said made.

553
00:34:06,060 --> 00:34:08,780
You can reach to someone who's
subject matter expert in the

554
00:34:08,780 --> 00:34:11,460
business you're planning to
start and just, you know reach

555
00:34:11,460 --> 00:34:13,540
out.
Maybe you know someone close in

556
00:34:13,540 --> 00:34:17,780
your city, someone you know that
you have met at the some

557
00:34:18,260 --> 00:34:20,500
conference or something and yeah
go ask.

558
00:34:20,500 --> 00:34:24,739
And people believe me they are
always willing to help if you

559
00:34:24,780 --> 00:34:26,659
ask.
So you just need to go and and

560
00:34:26,659 --> 00:34:29,250
ask.
And I liked also you saying that

561
00:34:29,650 --> 00:34:33,409
remove the fear fact, no need to
to steal, say I going to fail,

562
00:34:33,449 --> 00:34:35,730
what will happen?
There's nothing called failure,

563
00:34:35,969 --> 00:34:40,170
just a learning experience.
Now I have a famous question

564
00:34:40,170 --> 00:34:44,010
that I ask at the end and the
question is what is the question

565
00:34:44,010 --> 00:34:51,489
you wish that I ask you, Nate.
Oh, I would say, what do I do to

566
00:34:51,770 --> 00:34:54,889
kind of relax into a steps in
the business?

567
00:34:56,429 --> 00:35:00,750
So I would say my favorite thing
to do is I love being outdoors

568
00:35:01,310 --> 00:35:04,150
and so I'll make an offer to
anybody who's listening to the

569
00:35:04,150 --> 00:35:08,310
podcast.
If you're wanting to go kayaking

570
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:11,310
with me, please reach out.
There's all my social channels

571
00:35:11,310 --> 00:35:14,310
below.
I'll take you on a kayak trip

572
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:16,430
for the afternoon.
It's one of my favorite things

573
00:35:16,430 --> 00:35:21,350
to do, especially in the summer.
I live in the northern part of

574
00:35:21,350 --> 00:35:24,720
the US.
But I can't be convinced to fly

575
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:31,240
somewhere in the winter.
So yeah, so that's what I do.

576
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:34,480
I think it's important that
everybody find their thing to go

577
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:37,800
do and get away from it all,
turn off the phone and

578
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:44,080
disconnect. 100% I thought that
you know the I have to be on top

579
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,560
of everything 24 by 7 I can't
afford now I have for the ball.

580
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,440
I think I it's one of the
positive things about Pandemic

581
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,370
that.
You know, I changed my old

582
00:35:53,370 --> 00:35:57,250
habits and now I have a habit
that during the weekend, you

583
00:35:57,250 --> 00:36:01,450
know, like I have times where my
phone is away from me, Once a

584
00:36:01,450 --> 00:36:07,170
quarter I go at least one or two
days again, somewhere far where

585
00:36:07,530 --> 00:36:12,290
no phone, no Internet, nothing.
So this is very important,

586
00:36:12,290 --> 00:36:16,410
especially for people like us
who work in deck, so 100%.

587
00:36:16,750 --> 00:36:20,550
By the way, I would be putting
the social media handles of

588
00:36:20,550 --> 00:36:23,270
Nate.
So in that description if you

589
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:26,110
want to connect with him.
If someone in the US, I'm not

590
00:36:26,110 --> 00:36:28,110
sure.
Do you offer outside of the US

591
00:36:28,110 --> 00:36:29,910
your services Nate by any
chance?

592
00:36:31,150 --> 00:36:33,550
Yes.
If anyone interested I would be

593
00:36:33,550 --> 00:36:37,230
putting also the website there,
so if someone is interested to

594
00:36:37,270 --> 00:36:40,150
reach out to Nate, you can do so
also as well.

595
00:36:41,170 --> 00:36:43,970
Yeah, and like we've wished that
the end of this episode.

596
00:36:44,010 --> 00:36:49,690
I hope that you find that useful
and informative As usual, and as

597
00:36:49,690 --> 00:36:53,690
I say at the end of each
episode, if you have any

598
00:36:53,690 --> 00:36:57,850
question or feedback about this
episode or the show in general,

599
00:36:57,850 --> 00:36:59,770
please don't hesitate to reach
out to me.

600
00:37:00,250 --> 00:37:03,530
You can find me on LinkedIn, on
Twitter, you can send me an

601
00:37:03,530 --> 00:37:07,890
e-mail, and I'll be more than
happy to answer you if you are

602
00:37:07,890 --> 00:37:09,770
interested to be a guest on the
show.

603
00:37:10,180 --> 00:37:13,820
Also we can talk about it, we
can discuss it and we can

604
00:37:13,820 --> 00:37:17,860
arrange for that as well.
And don't forget, if you are

605
00:37:18,300 --> 00:37:22,140
listening the first time,
subscribe to the podcast and if

606
00:37:22,140 --> 00:37:25,820
you are watching this on YouTube
also you can subscribe to the

607
00:37:25,820 --> 00:37:27,460
channel.
Tell your friends, tell your

608
00:37:27,460 --> 00:37:29,900
colleagues, tell your family who
are trying really to get the

609
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:33,940
best of the best here and make
this podcast as much as

610
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:38,060
knowledge rich and information
rich as possible.

611
00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:41,010
Well, thank you very much.
And until we meet the next

612
00:37:41,010 --> 00:37:42,810
episode, thank you.
Thank you.

613
00:37:44,130 --> 00:37:47,530
Hit that subscribe button, share
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614
00:37:47,530 --> 00:37:50,970
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615
00:37:50,970 --> 00:37:54,770
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616
00:37:54,850 --> 00:37:55,290
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