#152 Trailblazing Tech: Sejal Lakhani on Resilience, Innovation, and Leading in the IT Industry

0:10 Hello, and welcome to a new episode of the city of show with mammoths. My name is Muhammad. And in each episode, as you know, I cover different topics from emerging technology cyber security digital transformation, Ai. And also I focus on startups and Entrepreneurship. And today, I think I found the match between both because I have with me for that today. First of all, thank you very much for being with us today in the show. Can you just tell us about yourself and about you? Company and what you have been up to Sure members. Thank you again, so much for having me. My name is Hazel akane pot. I am the CEO of tech Works, which is a managed service provider. So we are the company that becomes the IT department for small and medium businesses.

0:57 We also Focus hugely on cybersecurity. So we have a huge cybersecurity arm and we've been lucky enough or we've been, we've actually been named the top cyber security company in New Jersey and we have A cloud platform. So we've built your own cloud to keep everything sort of, you know, combined in one little chain. And we basically work with small and medium businesses. A lot of them who have compliances. A lot of them have a lot of personal identification, Etc. So that's that's what we specialize in. That's great to know about this. And actually, you know, when I Was preparing to jail for today's episode, I found something which is the coat my eyes.

1:40 So I understood that you entered into the IT industry, you know, different ways. So how do you know, like how was the learning because, you know, everyone you know thinks that it is hard and it's not for everyone. So how was your experience? Yeah. So, you know, I did, so I'll give you a little more background. So, you know, I actually was in the banking world. So I worked at Merrill Lynch. I worked at Deutsche Bank, I worked at Morgan Stanley. I went from the trading floor, through various countries, do various tasks. They did a lot of different things in 2012. I decided that I was going to quit my job and sort of, just be at home, you know, have have a little bit of time. I've two young boys that were like, I don't know, three and one at the time, So I decided I was going to quit my job and sort of stayed home.

2:31 My husband who had started this company Tech Works in 2008. And so after about three months of being a stay-at-home mom, I was like, I gotta do something as I come work with me. And, you know what I really found is that Businesses small and medium businesses, any business CEOs, don't speak Tekken. He's they speak English. They want to know how something is going to impact their bottom line. House of things can affect them on a day in day out how they're going to take care of something that they're thinking about every night that's keeping them up every night and to do that, you actually can't speak technical. So I know enough to be dangerous but from a technical standpoint I have an amazing team that works for me but for Tech works and for cloud Works, which is my cloud. At form.

3:15 Well, that's makes sense because I work in technical, I work in technology consultancy and I still do this now by my own and I'm a big believer that actually, you know, technology should be translated into business outcomes. So this is why exactly. Yeah, so this is why that completely makes sense and but like, it's very good move. I would say it's a courageous move so I understood Your company, you focus on small medium businesses, right? Yeah. So yes. So the question is from France perspective, right?

3:56 So, are you seeing smbs, understanding more and more the importance of having someone to give them hands to, you know, to to have their services up at the link to have their cybersecurity taken care of? Because at some stage, you know, people they thought, okay, we Can have kind of what is called of Chateau it you know like maybe there's one guy who works in a jar and he can take care of that exactly how you do. See this is changing. Now some of it, let's let's I'm going to take a step back for a second. Sure. Cybersecurity is huge buzz word. Right. You can't turn on the news without hearing something about it hacking or a breach or that actors. So it's become a buzzword large businesses and I think you covered this in an episode in recently in the past if I remember Large businesses now can say, this is the most important thing.

4:48 Cyber security is the most important. Yes. What. Small and medium businesses here. When they hear cybersecurity all they see is dollar signs. How much is it going to cost me? And I am a small and medium. Yeah, I'm a small business owner, I'm not even a medium business. I'm a small business owner and I can understand when we're looking at certain things, the way those words sound and the dollar signs that pop out and you just scared, you get scared. So what ends up happening is He business owners, get a look at it and go, you know what? I'm a small business owner, not me. It's not going to happen to me, it'll happen to everybody else. Is not gonna happen to me. You know what, I hear from a lot of business owners special, we don't see it happen to. A lot of small businesses when you turn on the news, you don't hear about it. And I go can or hear about it because those businesses are out of business because if Target gets breach, they have a million dollars as couch cushion change.

5:38 But if a small business gets breach or medium business gets preaching, they can't afford to lose. Lee dollars, I think that people are starting to understand the value and the need is no longer a luxury to have a true. It company. Look, it's not just about, oh, yes. Yes, it like you said, you know, that HR guy that Shadows it but or that's like well my my cfo's daughter's boyfriend kind of does it a little bit. So he comes in and doesn't if you're not constantly monitoring so you need to have monitoring. You need to have the right Tools in place. The right Tech stack, it has to be monitored properly, monitored properly. The person that's monitoring. It has to be able to read it, appropriately, execute on the actions and your people need to be trained. So if you don't have all of those aspects covered then you don't have a true thing.

6:27 So any of the money that you're actually spending is kind of wasted. So we see right now that small and medium businesses are starting to say yes we need it, we understand the importance of it but oh my gosh, they told so expensive and that's that's honestly why we started the company. Several years ago, not just around side. Security but over, you know, over a decade ago, more than a decade ago, to 15 years. We started the company because we were trying to provide provide enterprise-level Solutions at an affordable cost for small and medium businesses. So when we do certain things like cyber security, Etc, we need to small businesses. We all need to understand that it's extremely integral for them to have. Even more Security in place, even more Tools in place because they are the ones that are easy.

7:13 for, you know, breachers to hack for the Bad actors to go after So we're I think we're getting there but we're not, we're not closed yet. I mean, I listened to your episode from a couple, you know, weeks ago, and, or last week and really, you know, it's impressive because for small medium businesses, it's a money thing. It's how much money are you going to make me spend? And that's, you know, we get into the discussion of how much money can you afford to lose? A few, get breached, right? And it's not just money for, you know, for smbs is their reputation for anybody's to reputation before us and bees. Imagine telling your Is that you were breached not to be an accounting, former manufacturing company or anybody with any, you know, confidential information, you know, intellectual property.

7:56 It becomes a big problem so we're starting to get there. But there is still that barrier that it won't happen to me it cost too much money. Do I really need a? Can I just go Bare Bones? Can I have somebody kind of, give me some of it. What if I don't really Put training on it. I just kind of put it there. We don't monitor it, it doesn't work anymore. Yeah, you he's speaking the same language and I remember a couple of years back there was a something in the news about actually a service provider somewhere in Europe and they wear hit by a ransomware and then they it's a web hosting company and just remember that was a web hosting company and they had to have a couple of weeks later and say to their customers. Sorry guys were out of business and They like a small actually, they are not like that.

8:49 They are not like GoDaddy or namecheap, right? Like this. And the problem is, it's like, and this is I'm hoping by repeating this again, and you said now, season, like I'm repeating this almost on every episode where I have someone who is expecting cybersecurity and maybe you are bored. My, my mission is to get this message. It's not like, should I have a health insurance or not? Like, it's not the same thing. It's something you have to have that. Now, like if we want to continue from like cyber security perspective before we jump on something else, you mentioned data breach, right? And we know about ransomware as well. So where do you see, you know, like other threats coming in next?

9:39 What could be other threats and in that space, that customers need to focus on. Because again, unfortunately, in cybersecurity and in She in general when we repeat the same things again and again people they think it's just a high, right? But we know that Ransom it's not and we know data breaches. So what other things you know you usually advise your customers to take care of as well but we're in a whole different ball game now. Okay, so we went from everyone being in an office, right? We had fire walls around our office, we were like in a secure little building and it wasn't so hard. Now we've got people working not just from their homes. But from all over the country all over the world and I know everyone's saying, oh my gosh, sejal people were doing that from before but small and medium businesses weren't doing it as much now. It's easier to hire somebody in Dallas in Florida and Nashville because it doesn't matter.

10:31 We don't have an office to go to, right? So there are a couple things. One is, let's talk about ransomware for one second. First of all you shouldn't ever pay Ransom Ware, right? That's, that's a known thing. I think everybody knows that. But do you know that most people one out of four people that pay don't actually get their data back guys. The Bad actors are not reputable people right? Where we're not looking at a reputable team, you know, business people to do business with here so we all think about it like well if we get rid of so where do we just have to pay? I need SMB to really focus on one thing, reputational risk. If they don't give your data back and by the way, you would, if they do give you data back, you don't know if they have another copy, we have no idea what happens, right? So as a SMB owner, you need to think, what is my data worth and what is the worth of my clients data and keeping all of that secure?

11:23 And the biggest thing that I talk to people about now, because now, look, now we've got a i, and we've got, you know, all of these doors opening with a. I and all of these open sort of ports, ways of getting into something, we are extremely busy. As a society we are multitasking on everything. We're not paying as much attention or everything is automated. So now every do we all talk about multi-factor authentication where you put in your password, then you get a code and then you put in the code, we're not even paying attention anymore. We're just so used to putting everything we're like, authenticated, authenticated, authenticate, we're not paying attention. So here's what I would say. Number one is take a breath, okay, we need to really think about what we're doing and what we're clicking on because this can be life-altering. You lose your data.

12:09 You lose your clients data can be life-altering, but number two is And and Mike I know my clients not my clients but my the CEO is of my clients always hate this and by the way, I hate it too. So when my team tells me I have to do this. I'm like come on it takes an extra second. Does we need to look at Access Control who has access to what and how much access and do they need it? So doing zero-day threats and zero day policies for most of everything that you have. And I know it's a bit of a pain in the bum and I get it, but it's Sit, it's worth it. Don't you turn on your security alarm when you leave the house. That means when you come back in, you got to take that extra second and put in the code, it's the same thing. You lock the door for your car's. I hope you have to unlock them.

12:55 It is the same thing, zero threat policies. Allow us to really truly understand who needs access to what, and who's trying to get into something that they shouldn't be getting into. It is a technology stack. One item is like bulletproof glass the bullets going to pierce the first layer. The second layer go. To, you know, kind of skim through the third layer is sort of hit the fourth layer, but the fifth sixth and seventh will be untouched. It's the same thing with cybersecurity. You've got to have a tech stack because they can get to layer 1 through 4 5, which you've got to have additional layers there to stop them. So, zero threat is one of them. For those of you working from home, VPN, right? I know, these sounds that they make sure that you're using utilizing a VPN segregated wife eyes. I can't tell you how many people in my own, a whole minute I have for wife eyes.

13:43 One for guests that come into my home, one for my kids because gosh I never know what they're clicking on. It will link. They're going on one from my personal devices and because I own an IT service, security firm, and I have a work device, I've won for that. You know, they're you know, don't don't hop on to Starbucks Wi-Fi. We have everybody working from everywhere right now and people are doing all sorts of things that we would never allow them to do before. So those are a couple of the items that I would, you know, that I would say need to be done, but you really need a cohesive plan with an IT company that can then that could execute on it. You've got to put it all together because every company is different. You know we have health care clients that we treat a bit differently than our manufacturing clients.

14:24 We have eyes that, you know, do stuff for the dod. D. We have clients that are in Professional Services. Accounting services, Etc, marketing Services. They're all a little bit different. Most of the taint, same Tech stack but how we handle them is different and you need that and actually in my opinion you know like customers should be thankful and grateful for having service providers like yourself. Because if they wanted to handle this by themselves, like it's close to Impossible, I would change. It is, yeah. Yeah. Is it is really hard to keep on top of it.

15:05 It's not only the money, see each other. Let's also, you know, just to give you know people at because I focus too much also on smbs. You know? And startups as well. Guys, if I tell you how many agents a cyber security engineer in a security Operation Center, sock, hell yeah, like, you'll be mind blown, right? So this is what. Yeah, so this This is why it's so important and I just had a discussion earlier this morning with another friend and we are saying that smbs in any country in any economy, there are the backbone of that economy.

15:45 Yeah the reason I repeat how important smbs to have proper security managed by someone is because you can and I'm not saying this to scare you guys by any mean and you know like here you are on a show, we are not in any way say Spits or anything. We're just trying to share our wellness and inform, exactly. Think think, in a simple way, if imagine you have, don't know if you use an Apple device or an Android device and you have all your photos or your life goes, how do you feel about it right? Like your whole life can be deleted and you cannot get it back. I mean right from photos first.

16:28 Yes, I think about it all your CRM Erp. Peace, I don't know all your files or you have contracts, all your I don't know. Like, purchase orders, they disappears. They are encrypted deleted or much worse. Our internals of the bad guys who can come to you and say, hey if you don't pay us, we gonna put this into some where we're going to sell it to some someone. Yep. So this is very important. Now another aspect you touch on now is a and I want to School. How dare seeds? Not only the AI adoption. I mean we have a lot of technologies that are adopted in Enterprises say, but I see personally that smbs deserve that as well.

17:15 Like AI is one of this data analytics is one of them are you seeing you know from your interaction with clients that they want also to absorb these Technologies as well? Oh, I see so many of my colleagues. So I'm part of an organization called entrepreneurs organization. It is All business owners and that you have to be a business owner for founder in the organization, to be in the organization. And I can tell you people are using for all sorts of things from marketing to blogs, to writing policies, to writing contracts to obviously it's a 70% 80% but please I think one of the things that we need to realize is AI is not always factual. You know we've got to so verify but it's been incredible. It is helps of My colleagues and some of my clients to a degree where they're taking things that would take, let's say 40 hours a week, 30 hours a week and have knocked it down to two hours a week, right?

18:14 It's incredible. Yeah, that's that's completely right season now. That's good to know that there's an adoption over there any specific, right? Can I just say one thing about that adoption? Here's the thing, right? So again, because it's such a new technology and I assure you the Bad actors are way ahead of us there. Already know how to use that technology to get into our stuff, but because it's Janine. Technology, people are unsure how to utilize it. So the adoption is there. The processes and the policies around it or not and that's another big thing. So, think about this for one second, right? You want to write an insurance policy for somebody and it's something, you know, Bubba? So you put in, right?

18:58 You got the right, the biggest thing about a eyes, you gotta have the right prompts. You put it all this information and some of its confidential information, you don't even know where it's being stored. You don't know where it's going, you don't know what they're doing with it. So the education around AI, you still need policies around what you're going to do with that and what you're not. So that's the biggest thing. for all companies, small medium and large, but small and medium businesses because they're trying to truly be more efficient and save time and save money, you know, they're, they're doing certain things that We don't have an answer to yet. And how it comes to the thing. Absolutely, absolutely. Now, I want to Pivot little bit from from, you know, the, the, the it perspective actually it's silver letter to i t, and this is out of curiosity. Honestly, like you come from, you told me from Financial background, right?

19:52 And I'm telling this. Now, I'm little bit kind of talking to Consultants like myself, who want to speak a a finance language about an IT solution. What is your advice for them? Can you unpack that a little more for me? What do you mean to finance language? Like, how to actually associate money with the different solutions and like that your? Yes. Yes. Tom and the reason I'm asking this question because I want everyone to understood to tie. You know whatever feature. Yeah. To some money if you can like, put some lights on this. So, I mean, I do it all the time, right? So we talked about what we took about a business being shut down, right?

20:36 When I'm talking to the CEO. And they're like, well, we were We were shut down. You just said that that other company was shut down for like 45 days or something. We had a weed a service provider here that was shut down for five days and they're like, well, we were shut down for five days. So yet, you know, we lost this many orders or we couldn't do this, no problem. But what about all the other money? But about the employees that you're paying, that are not working? What about the rent? What about the opportunity cost? What about the others? But what about all of these other costs that go into it right? When we're talking about data? And we're talking about how long so, for most companies, They do sales, our CRM is our, our gold mine. It is everything that we have on how we're going to get clients right now.

21:17 If somebody took, that's your arm away, how many years, how many people? How many sales people did you pay for it? How many years did it take you to get it? How many phone calls did you make to those people? How many marketing messages did you send? How much time, how much energy, how many blog posts, everything goes into it. So when people are looking at data breaches, they're like, well, we have to pay Ransom, Ware of a Ian dollars, it cost me a million, no question million plus your insurance, plus the lawyers, plus all the downtime, plus the employee costs was any opportunity cost? And by the way, what do you think our reputation is worth? Hundred percent and any regulation related Coast has 1000.

21:58 The loss of clients are regulations from compliance, our whole different thing. I mean that's just I mean we you know, there's a company that I'm aware of that used to supply to the dod and small company eight people without going into too much detail. They didn't have the right. Backup way of securing data. It was found out. I'm talking billion dollar contracts. Done. Yeah, thanks. It's, you're not the only company that does what you do, they will find another person that is secure hundred percent and the percent. Also, while I Was preparing for for the episode, one thing, like also caught my eyes like you have never lost a single line and I know how much specially in service provider space. Is how much is the important To keep clients happy and how demanding they can be.

22:58 How did you manage this? What was your secret sauce? Let's see. So we've never been fired. So we have lost a unfortunately recently or fortunately for our clients were very good at scaling. Our clients, we have actually lost three clients to private Equity firms this last year, the what you read was so my husband passed away in 2019, he was the one who started the business. I worked in the business from 2014 onwards. I became CEO of the business. In 2015. And when my husband passed away, he was the main it person and we just established that I have zero IT background. So when we went through everything, we lost zero clients and we still to this day, we have fired clients, we've lost close to PE firms. We lost one client who did leave us and then came back to us or they didn't fully lead.

23:46 They're like we're leaving, we're leaving, and then they were like, you know what, we have nowhere to go, we want to stay with you. The reason for that is we manage expectations, number one is my team. Credible my team before when my husband was alive and currently is incredible. I am the dumbest person in the room. My team is not just smart but they, they have the ability to truly own and make decisions. So that's number one. Number two, as we manage expectations, we are not perfect, we are not perfect, but if something goes wrong, I will take responsibility. Every CEO has my cell phone number, they will call me. I won't talk to them. I will go into it with them. Um, I will take responsibility, if something goes wrong and we will fix it. We're also a known entity, meaning we're flat rate. So, a lot of a lot of what you see with companies is they hate their like, we don't call Our IT person because we have to pay, you know, for every hour we only have eight hours a month and we don't do that.

24:45 We just want to do it all you. Call this a thousand times. You call 08. Like, we just want to go in and do it all for you. Without you worrying, because if you're going to wait on a little issue every day that, She gets bigger bigger, bigger and now everyone's screwed. Um, so we really have great communication with great management of expectations. We have an amazing team and mammoths were constantly training and going getting ahead of stuff, you know, where we're investing the time and the money to make sure that we know like, we're talking about AI. I'm on an AI panel, I think in two weeks, again, I believe I've, you know, we've created a group, we've got an entire group to talk about security around Ai, and what do we need to do and how do we get ahead of it? And do we know all the answers?

25:26 Absolutely not. Nobody knows all the answers, but we're trying, we're trying. That's really inspiring. And I honestly being someone who work on customer seed, and someone who work on vendor seed, like what you did, this fantastic. I believe because rarely you find the people who have this mindset of, you know, customer centricity, number one. Yes, absolutely. Up to date with with you know all the trends. And what's happening which is by the way. It's not an easy task. No it's not. People ask me some time and I shared multiple plans how I do it at. It's not easy.

26:07 Guys. I tell them I have to grab all this information on daily basis but and I specified a specific you know you have a specific timeframe for me to go and read, watch a couple of videos, you know. So I keep and of course, now, with the age of a, I have to another task Cape to be. I Need to see which to what which one is true. Which one is, might be like, completely a false one buddy. It's not an easy one, how many changes and it changed? How many the first time today and tomorrow they're like fuck x equals y was so like oh that's nothing. You know. So it's it's it's a lot it's a lot 100%. Now you've been like really, as I said, are you a model?

26:51 I would say, especially a female leader in the tech industry. Re and I'm sure you have faced a lot of challenges. Like how do you overcome this? And what is your advice for fellow women, who are, you know, dreaming to become have a leadership intact, maybe they thinking about entering the tech Market, what you can tell them, So, here's what I'm going to say, for all of the women that are out there. When we start saying, I can't do it because I'm a woman or it didn't happen because I'm a woman. It's exactly what's stopping us. When we were two years old or is second grade I should say, nobody.

27:34 If nobody walked in and said, oh my God, girls, you should do stem as well. We would never know that we can't do step. So let's take a different mindset, right, for the women that are out there where we actually have a better position. We are vulnerable, we are empathetic, we have Have the ability to do things that men don't have the ability to do truly men and women are two. Totally different people, not just biologically, but mentally physically. Just the way we think use it, to your advantage. There's nothing that says, women can't do it. You know, when I was at Deutsche Bank, Mammoth, I worked at Deutsche Bank, I was doing projects Etc and I ended up truly sort of diving in and I was given the opportunity, both my kids at Deutsche Bank and I then worked from home, two days a week at Deutsche Bank, two days a week, I work from home, and I'm talking about, in 2008, 2009 2010 2011, by the way, nobody works from home and not from a bank, then we have the ability to do what we want to do, as long as we think about it that way.

28:45 So for all the women that are out there, there are challenges do Get me wrong. I just had a gentleman last night. Tell me, you know, hey I don't meet with women alone at all and you know, there was this guy and I thought he would be a great client. They're going to be challenges but there's a lot of other things that are not challenges. So focus on those and continue working towards it. There's no reason that we can't do anything and everything. There's no reason. I'm a mother of two boys. I just mentioned briefly, I'm a widow. My husband passed away four years ago and I have five companies So there's no reason we can't do it. It's only when we start off with the reason and no more excuses, I didn't get it because I'm a woman. The one other thing I want to say because this is very important for women is Fix the crown on the woman next to you. Women tend to work against each other, where men turned to work together.

29:41 And when we're working against each other, none of us gets ahead. And so that's that's the other piece I would say. Yeah, great. But I still have one question. If you don't mind for you, before we for we end up. So you've been like a board member of entrepreneurs organization and connect for business Exchange. What are some, you know, insights can you share with us on the current entrepreneurial landscape? Oh wow, that's not a little question. I'm sorry. Wow. So it's so here's what I'll say, I have found that people have become serial entrepreneurs people across the ages younger. And older older ones are selling businesses and then they're not just sitting there selling them and doing nothing. They're starting another project, another passion project, another charity another business entrepreneur entrepreneurs breed entrepreneurs and what's happening is as you start to hang out with everybody you're starting to see Serial entrepreneurs. Some people are in all sorts of articles, I have a real estate agency.

30:56 I have a liquor store I have you know Cloud platform company is cyber security company and managed service provider company. So we've all of these things that were doing and the biggest thing I would say is I see more and more entrepreneurs learning from each other not just for their own vertical moment. They're not just going and saying I'm an IT company. Let me just go into other it masterminds and really learn that but Hmm, they are going to all sorts of. I've learned so much from verticals that are so far out of anything that I would even understand. So, that's number one, that's number two, I would say. Number two, is we become Global. So really, talking to entrepreneurs across the world, talking to people, and how they're doing, things utilizing different tools, utilizing automation, utilizing people from various countries utilizing, not just actual people around the world because of the skill sets, they possess, but bringing in everything. Else that goes along with it, to make that company as unique as possible.

31:57 Well, that's really very, very healthy helpful. And I agree with you, specially of the, of course, on both points but the second one makes a lot of sense because, you know, the world is more connected than, you know, we should be Global and we are seeing this actually across the board everywhere. And yeah, there's not there's no difference now because, you know, back in the days everyone's saying, hey like US market is different than Europe Market, you're right. Light is different from like Middle East Market. Of course, there will be some cultural aspects like this is but it's related more to the way how you operate your sales and marketing, right?

32:39 But when it comes on, I mean, the business itself, I mean the, the entrepreneurial part of it, it's completely. I would say, now, global and Universal, I can, I can claim this but the other part of it and I meant it. We can learn so much, right? How do we make something in the u.s. in New Jersey? How do I make my it? I met a guy in Zurich that runs a cloud platform the way I do. Oh no, not the way I do better than I do. And I was able to pick up pieces from that and Implement them here. There's nobody else here doing that wonderful you know. So I think it's really important and in to go back to the old adage.

33:19 It's not what you know it's who you know. It truly is about who you know and utilizing those connections and building. Being the most amazing Network for you. I have incredible networks for everything. That's, you know, like I have no problem in saying this, you know, on the episode because I mentioned in one of the episodes that I did this mistake, you know, when I was younger and this is my advice for for Young Generation, especially if you are planning to have your own business. And by the way, I think the future is more into entrepreneurship. They're not saying like I'm not saying corporate world will when their Malaysian finish. No, of course no will still have The companies. But I'm a big believer that we'll see more entrepreneurs would see more solopreneurs, actually. This is yes, my own View and my advice because I figured this out little bit late, but it's good that I figured out is network network, network network. Like I cannot keep, you know, saying this enough. Yes.

34:22 Yeah. Before we come to close, these are like, I haven't famous question that I asked at the end. What is the question that you wish? First I ask you. Oh wow I didn't hear that question. Other thing is I okay this is your probably is wow. What is the question? So one of the things that I loved I love to share my experience on my failures. I have failed a lot over and over again because I think it's you know we all talk about how things are amazing and we talked about how my company hasn't lost a client and how I've done this and I've done. Not, I really think one of the questions that I would have wished was tell me about your failures because I think that's as important or maybe more important than anything. I've done well and you know what I'd like to say is you know, especially as entrepreneurs in the corporate world. You know, when you fail you kind of get in trouble with your boss and and then you know, you might get a write-up or maybe you're fired or nothing happens.

35:29 It's not on the hand when you're an entrepreneur or a failure. Could mean the loss of you know hundreds thousands millions of dollars. It could mean the loss of clients. It could mean the loss of reputation could mean you know bankruptcy. It could mean changing your entire life and it affecting your livelihood failures are going to happen and if you're not failing then you're not doing enough. Because if you're not going to fail then then you're really just not taking enough risk to move your business and yourself forward. So What I would I would I would share with your audience is, don't be scared and don't wait for everything to be perfect before you do it.

36:11 It will never be perfect. That's why you're an entrepreneur, because you want everything to be perfect and it'll never be there. So, start to take the first step, so you can figure out after that first step, what? The next step is. And the next thing is to appreciate what you've done, I appreciate my failures. I've appreciated, the mistakes I've made and I appreciated the people that have Me out of my mistakes. And the last thing I would say is ask for help. We are we don't, you know, my father's generation did not ask for help everything was done on their own, let's not be that generation. Let's ask for help because people are more than willing to help. So, there you go, great. And I'm happy.

36:52 You you shared this, because I always anyone who asked me and I Mentioned, even here on the podcast. Many times in my dictionary, there is nothing called failure. That is learning, right? Yes, because you fall down, you stand up again and you think that that famous quote, if I'm not mistaken to us, I'm not sure if it's not his, I'm sorry, but I remember that it's Denzel Washington. Like, if you don't fail, you're not even trying. There are a lot of old coats like this and it's true. Like, because if If you know, like this is how when we were kids, this is how we learned how to walk this.

37:36 How we, how we learn to hike Lee. Yeah, that's also you need to try and this is like I would say it's a, it's a nature, right? So this is how we actually succeed in things. And especially I'm talking here about people who thinks to go into an entrepreneurial Journey or Tech specifically because you know, people they are afraid, they hesitate too much. Yes. No no don't don't. Hesitate what's okay so don't ask what would happen if this happens as what will happen if I don't do this. Like I think yeah so this is this is the mindset like I was lucky enough to learn it again late but again there's nothing even in this one and I'm really glad you shared this, you know? Because it's we are in a time that I believe we need to give back our experiences and that you said don't hesitate, and I'm saying this to the oldest, don't hesitate to reach out at. This is why at the end of each episode, I'm saying, if you have questions, feedbacks, you want to discuss something. Something even, you didn't agree with with me. Please reach out like, let's talk. Let's have a discussion.

38:53 Well seated, like really I enjoyed the discussion today. It's a very I would say, one of my best episodes. Ever, I can claim this because we have we covered a lot from technical aspects cybersecurity and we talked about entrepreneurship and, you know, this dirt, really the best of the best. This is why the the city of show exists actually. And and people ask me why it's called City. Also likes too much technical. I say, but remember a CTO is associated with tech. Yes, a CTO is associated with startups and Entrepreneurship and they CTO is a guy who talks business and Technology the same time. So I think we covered all this today. Yeah.

39:35 Which is which is great. Great. Thank you very much and you know as we are coming to the end of the show for everyone who is listening to us. If it's your first time that you tuned in, please subscribe to the podcast. We are trying always to get the best of the best of the show. And also, please tell your friends, your colleague, your family about the show, you will not regret it. And they were Not regret it. I guarantee you this and I was mentioning few minutes ago if you have any questions feedback reach out to me if you want to be a guest on the show wherever you are in the world, I have guessed from the US. I have guests from uslan the other day. I had a guy I think in Indonesia, so whatever, whatever you are.

40:20 If you think you have something that is related to our theme, don't hesitate to reach out to me. I would be more than happy to discuss this. Thank you very much and until we meet in the next, Oh, thank you. Thank you.