April 19, 2023
#98 Mastering Technical Presentations: Embracing Theatricality with Don Colliver
In this episode, we dive into the world of technical presentations with Don Colliver, a master of theatrical performances, public speaking, and technical presentations. From his experiences with the Blue Man Group to his bestselling book "Wink: Transforming Public Speaking with Clown Presence," Don shares his unique insights on how to captivate audiences in technology conferences. We discuss the importance of storytelling, structuring your presentation, and using visuals, as well as how to overcome the fear of public speaking. Tune in for an enlightening conversation and get ready to transform your next tech presentation!
Get to know Don more:
https://www.doncolliver.com/techengage
https://www.linkedin.com/in/doncolliver/
YouTube: @ColliverMedia
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Hello and welcome to a new
episode of the CTO show with
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mammoths.
My name is Muhammad.
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And in each episode, I discussed
several topics from the digital
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transformation cybersecurity and
emerging tech.
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And as you know, sometimes I
have with me, also thought
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leaders entrepreneurs and
experts who shared with us.
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Their insights experiences about
topics related.
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Of course, to technology and
business.
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And today, I'm very happy to
have with me here in this
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episode Don Collier.
Who's joining me from The u.s.
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Today Dawn can you just
introduce yourself what you do
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and we can take it down from
there for sure.
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Mehmet.
First, thank you for having me
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super great to be on the CTO
show.
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And where are you?
Where are you based?
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I'm in Dubai.
Oh, cool.
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All right, well, it's probably
the middle of the night or
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something for you.
Its morning, time here in the
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San Francisco Bay Area.
But I thanks for having me.
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Yeah, what I do.
I speak a technical trade shows,
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primarily cybersecurity.
I'll be at RSA in Black Cat this
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year and I pitched talk at
Defcon, we'll see if it goes but
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what I do is deliver marketing
presentations but I try to make
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technical things understandable
to non-technical folks and I
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also helped technical folks
engage with their technical
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content.
Tent with non-technical folks
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and day to day here in the
peninsula.
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It's South of San Francisco.
I teach technical public
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speaking at Google.
That's, that's very cool.
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And actually this topic, you
know, as very close to my heart
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because, you know, part of the
things I used to do back is
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doing presentations for people
who probably they don't
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understand Tech.
And the first thing, you know,
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because when I Was preparing for
the episode, I did some research
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and And you know, I found
something very interesting about
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you don't like, you have a
diverse background, you know,
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from performing like Blue, Man
Group presenting, Tech
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conferences.
So how do you think, you know,
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your experience as like shaped,
you know, the way you can give
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the information and, you know,
this enhancement of the
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technical presentation in a way
that, you know, everyone can
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understand it.
We're sure well yeah as you say
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I have a pretty diverse
background kind of the thing
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that directly connects to what
we're talking about is I was a
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clown I was wowed with the Blue
Man Group for a short time.
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I was a host clown for a company
called Spiegel world and in or
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North American tour.
I don't know if any of your
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audience has been to Vegas and
seen absent that Caesars Palace.
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I was the host, but for a
similar show in North America
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for that.
That and a lot of that world is
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being able to really be
conscious of the audience and
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interact with the audience and
understand where the audience
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is, and what I need to do, to
keep the audience moving on a
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journey.
And there's a huge amount of
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crossover to technical
presentations and what I've
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found when I'm working with
developers and engineers, and
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cybersecurity folks is, there's
no lack of passion.
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Like people are extremely
passionate about their content.
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But when it comes to presenting
it but almost ashamed of their
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passion and but ironically, that
passion is exactly what is going
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to connect them to their
audience.
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If they get confident enough and
clear away, the blocks to kind
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of just present themselves and
connect with their audiences in
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that way.
And the other thing when I
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turned, like I hate to even use
the word clown because it has a
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bad connotation here in the
states, at least.
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But I like to think of more of
the The concept is clown
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presence, being an office
standing up there and being
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authentic and really
authentically connecting with
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your audience and the second
half of that is your audience
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and being aware of who you're
speaking to, and kind of
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starting where they're at.
That's a particular challenge
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for technical folks because
they're in their world all day
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long, and then when they walk
out to speak about it, they
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think everybody's kind of coming
from, where they're coming from
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and shifting to that audience
perspective.
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Is critical when delivering
technical presentations and I
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think you wrote a book about
this, right?
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Don I use the book Wing
transforming public speaking
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with clown presence, that's
correct exactly, right?
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Yeah, thank you for pitching my
book Mehmet.
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I appreciate it.
But yeah, it gives some some
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basic techniques, not even
technical, specific more.
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How to I come from a long
Toastmasters background.
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I'm sure you have like, five
times.
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Toastmasters meetings within 10
miles of you over there, there's
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a lot of focus in traditional
public.
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Speaking on getting me the
medium really nice like clearing
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up my filler words, making sure
my gestures are okay but there's
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a lack of.
How do I connect?
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How do I engage?
I didn't see a lot of that and
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so that's what I focus on in the
book.
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Yeah, back of course you talk in
these big conferences like I
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gotta say which is like I think
starts after tomorrow CS black
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hat and all these big
conferences myself, you know,
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sometimes being also from
technical background, I sit in a
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presentation and, you know, like
I would be like just doing like
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this.
So what this guy's is doing so,
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you know, while on stage, what
do you think are the most common
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mistakes?
You see presenters make at such
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events and how they can avoid
that?
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Wow, that's a big question and
that but I think as I kind of
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mentioned before virtually, all
of these problems will be
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corrected.
If your presenters or your
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audience asks three questions
before they build their
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presentations, three questions
about the audience, I'm sure
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they know what they want to
communicate, but first who's
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going to be in that room?
Meaning what is their level of
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Experience and expertise like
what kind of definitions do you
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need to give how deep into the
weeds?
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Can you go?
So, first question, who's going
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to be their?
Second question, what exactly do
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you want that audience to do
when they're done with your
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presentation?
And kind of have that sentence
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as a yardstick or meter stick?
If you will for all of our
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European, folks, and hold that
up against every part of your
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Presentation.
And if it's not contributing
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directly for what you want your
audience to do, that's a great
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reason to edit it out.
And the last question is, what's
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in it for the audience?
Why do they care?
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And that should be the most
important thing you should lead
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with that?
Like, Mehmet, you have this
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problem?
What I'm going to talk about is
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going to show you how to solve
your problem and coming from
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that perspective.
So those three questions are
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going to solve a host of other
problems in your technical
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presentation.
And this is a very good point
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because I used to work as a pre
sales consultant.
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And, you know, we will train for
this.
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How important is to structure
because I see people do
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sometimes this mistake, where
they start pitching before,
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understanding what the audience
wants, right?
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So, how it's important to
structure it in a way that, I
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mean, it will resonate with the
audience.
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I mean, very important.
The answer are you familiar?
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Maybe your audience is familiar
with Barbara, mintos pyramid
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principle.
It's kind of a classic business
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writing Yang.
One of the things that she spoke
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about in her book was the SC q a
introduction framework and I'll
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briefly explain it and I find it
this also solves a ton of
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problems for folks that are
launching in just like you're
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saying before understand before
getting the Beans on their side
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for the journey.
So SC Q e' stands for situation.
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Complication question, answer,
so situation.
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You kind of start by getting
your audience, nodding saying
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something non-controversial.
Hey folks, we all hate traffic,
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right?
Just something to get everybody
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nodding along, then you ask you
add a complication but traffic
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makes us late.
Am I, right?
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So this is the problem.
So situation.
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Everybody hates traffic
complication is it makes us
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late.
So then you ask the question,
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which is leading into your
solution.
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So how do we solve this problem?
How do we solve being laid all
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the time?
Then your answer is kind of your
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solution that you're delivering
in your technical presentation.
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That's why you should buy my
teleportation device or
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something like that.
You know what I mean?
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Yeah.
So you're kind of getting
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starting where your audience is
at where they're nodding saying
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what Is the problem, which they
also like, yeah, that's a
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problem, I agree.
And then you say here's how
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we'll solve it.
Now, this brings the second
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question, I have here, how
important because you sometimes
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you need to relate things.
How important is storytelling
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when you do public speaking,
Well, it's really important, but
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it's like a separate skill.
It's something that takes work,
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and it's also kind of
counterintuitive for technical,
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folks, it does.
Because we all see it all the
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time, when we watch movies, when
we watch TV, that sort of thing,
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but there are some specific kind
of almost fill in the blanks
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that can make a compelling
technical story.
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However, I would like to because
sometimes when a manager gives a
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note, like, you need to tell
more stories, we need more
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narrative, it's good to ask
questions because sometimes what
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people are looking for is
context, like, can you give me
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context to what you're talking
about?
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And that just means what's the
driver of the problem or the
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audience.
They want to hear.
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Why do I care about this problem
that you're solving?
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And from their perspective that
maybe what Looking for when
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they're asking for more
narrative or story but then
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they're also of course is
classic storytelling.
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And there are a few, there's
four primary things that your
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audience could do to quickly add
a story.
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First, you find a relatable
protagonist, this can be a
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customer, it can be a Founder.
Some kind of protagonist where
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your audience is like, yeah, I
get that.
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At and there should be some kind
of high stakes problem.
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This protagonist had a ton of
data had no way to sort it.
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So that's the high-stakes
problem.
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So you have a relatable
protagonist a high-stakes
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problem then and this is the,
the weird part or technical.
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Folks, you need to give setting
talk about emotion and setting.
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This is what makes it a story
and we were really stressed.
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It was coming up into the end of
the fourth quarter.
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It was fall outside.
It was really cold.
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And there was a lot of pressure
in the office.
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This feels really weird to add
to a technical presentation, but
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it kind of adds to the story of
makes it a story.
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And then, lastly, the last
important thing for a story, is
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there needs to be a conscious
decision where the protagonist
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says, you know what, we're going
to fix some kind of a filter and
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make this data make sense.
So, that's the conscious
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decision.
The problem is not the story.
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The trauma is not the Story.
That decision is the story.
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Yeah, I'm that's very
insightful.
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Don't really, now, I don't know
how, but when I shifted roles, I
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used to sit on the, you know,
the customer side if you want.
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I was like a sysadmin kind of
introvert and all of a sudden I
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was thrown in front of hundreds
of people.
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I didn't face this, but when I
talked to pee is, you know, at
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least in the tech industry, one
of the things that they tell me
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is, you know, We get so nervous
when we are on the stage and,
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you know, we are sharing with,
don't know what to, you know, we
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have the ideas, but all of a
sudden we lose it, right?
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So, what advice is, can, can you
give for, you know, people who
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have to do that public speaking
in front of large audiences?
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And I'm speaking, of course,
here about anything related to
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our industry, like tech
industry.
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Absolutely.
Well first both new memories and
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all the people that say that
you're not alone.
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Every single person in my
technical public speaking
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classes.
Their primary goal is to get
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over anxiety and nervousness
like without fail and me too.
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I get super nervous.
I think everyone gets nervous
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before presentation.
So first, you're not alone.
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The challenge becomes when it
becomes paralyzing, right?
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When you start losing your your
memory or stuff like that.
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So I'll give you two quick.
Takeaway tips.
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First thing and this feels very
obvious low-stakes practice.
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That's why I'm a fan of
Toastmasters.
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I'm not crazy about all their
content but it's a weekly thing.
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You get up ev'rybody.
Generally gets to speak in front
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of an or 12 people every single
meeting.
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And so if you're a person who
makes one really important
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presentation, every two months,
of course, you're going to be
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terrified, but if you're giving
love Takes presentations all the
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time.
It'll be a lot less concerning
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and this last tip this is a
little more internal but this is
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the one that really works for
me.
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When I'll be coming up in front
of some high stakes, folks,
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Executives c-suite, when I'm
speaking in front of powerful
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folks that know a lot more than
me about a lot of things.
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Usually, I'm there because I
know more than them about
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something and I'm there to be of
service.
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I'm there to help them
understand what I have.
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All I am is a medium.
All I am is a pipe for that
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information.
All I need to do is figure out
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listen to them.
What do I need to do to make
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sure that you can understand
this information?
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And it just kind of helps my ego
step completely out of the way.
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So I call the service mindset,
if you can shift to a service
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mindset rather than a mindset
of, I Hope they like me.
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I hope they do this.
I hope they like me.
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It will take the pressure off
you the speaker.
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I agree 100% because this is
also how I reach a, you know, a
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place where I practice, right?
So at something it, isn't it
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personally with me before going
to even just a normal meetings
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not doesn't have necessarily to
be a presentation.
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I had the chance to represent,
you know, my former employers
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on, you know stages.
Partner IDC and such stuff.
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And, you know, like, yeah.
And I was taking myself.
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Look like these are like, gold
will people like me at the end
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of the day, right?
So just be relaxed and just, you
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know, go and do it and you will
do fine.
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Now, one thing, I noticed all
the time specially in the big
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conferences and the most
engaging presentations, because
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also I was attending sales
kickoffs and so on the most
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engaging presentations I
attended where once were With
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visuals like with charts, you
know, maybe some videos.
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What is your take on on this
boy?
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He can on visuals.
Well there's you know there's
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multiple books on this stuff,
some of which again I don't
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completely agree with.
I think especially for technical
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presentations, having a picture
of a beach and one word that
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says believe is not going to
make your audience.
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Exactly hard.
But I think learning techniques
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for data, visualization is
extremely helpful and there's a
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Book called storytelling with
data last name of the author is
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now flick.
And this seems to be kind of the
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current Bible of that world.
Kind of the classic guy.
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His name is, what's his name?
Tough D Edward, tufte is kind of
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The Godfather of this stuff.
It's real deep and if, and if
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you have some data Vis, folks in
your audience, I'm sure they're
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aware of tough D but or the less
focused I think storytelling.
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With data is a great starting
point and I think the basic
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takeaway is do the work for your
audience.
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00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:34,600
Don't just dump all the data on
screen and then expect your
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audience to like sort through
it.
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You sort through it and put your
results on screen and that could
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00:17:41,300 --> 00:17:44,900
mean having a chart and then
having a big arrow with the
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title on the top saying your
intended Insight.
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But basically if you put a chart
up there, With undigested data
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that means your audience isn't
listening to you for a while.
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All they're doing is like okay,
what is this?
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00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,600
How can I find a different
conclusion that he's trying to
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sell?
Just take that entire dialogue
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00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:07,600
away and give them your
conclusion.
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00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:11,100
I would go a question outside of
what I have prepared here
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00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:16,400
because you just mentioned this
What do you think about even not
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00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:21,500
using a slide deck at all?
Because I've seen people who do
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00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:25,700
and talk to technical people
without one single slide, maybe
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00:18:25,700 --> 00:18:27,800
they have, just their names
behind them.
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00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,800
But they have this way of really
catching the audiences.
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00:18:32,100 --> 00:18:33,800
Like, what do you think about
it?
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That's amazing.
I mean it just reminds me
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00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:42,700
there's this famous demo.
It was a meet up in New York
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00:18:42,700 --> 00:18:53,300
City, shoot maybe it's twilio, a
twilio demo and the founder he
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00:18:54,000 --> 00:19:00,200
quoted in real-time and app
which then texted the entire
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00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,400
audience loved the room in real
time and you saw him Building it
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00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:11,900
and correcting his code on the
screen, I think if like
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00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:17,300
absolutely if you can throw away
your deck and get more engaged
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00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:20,300
with the audience, what do you
think you're going to remember
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00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:23,700
like something that affects
Mehmet in the audience in real
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00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:27,600
time or just sitting back and
ingesting like I'm watching
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00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,400
Netflix of some guy that I could
easily have time shifted this
318
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,500
and watched a video of it.
Is there some way that you can
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00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:39,300
make it present in happening in
that moment?
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00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:42,100
That's going to be the most
memorable way to deliver your
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00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:44,900
solution.
Yeah, I agree with you.
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Don't actually, I have still,
like two questions for you for
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00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,000
today.
So, I'm sure that many of the
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00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,200
audience would be watching or
listening to this episode.
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00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,700
They have, you know, inside the
same to increase their
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00:19:58,700 --> 00:20:02,900
visibility, you know, whether
inside their companies or maybe
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00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:04,700
in the industry that they are
in.
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00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,000
How can the livering, a
compelling, technical
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00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,100
presentation?
You think help them achieve this
330
00:20:11,100 --> 00:20:14,900
and what are the potential
career benefits for someone who
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I would say, master the
technical presentation Oh gosh.
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00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:21,900
Well I should ask you.
Ma'am it.
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00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,900
I mean, why do you have a
podcast?
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00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:28,500
If you become a thought leader
just by the nature of stepping
335
00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:30,300
into that world.
Oh cool.
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00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:34,800
Thank you for saying this.
Yeah, probably should be a
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00:20:34,808 --> 00:20:38,300
question for myself but I always
like to take, you know, the
338
00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:44,100
opinion of an expert also as
well because I figured out quite
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00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:46,600
long time.
Back that being very good.
340
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,100
Technically being good in
communication with Out, you
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00:20:50,108 --> 00:20:53,500
know, doing excellent
presentation and catch the
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00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:57,700
audience at, you know,
attention, you know, it would
343
00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:01,900
keep a gap for you and for me,
one of the things because I love
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00:21:01,900 --> 00:21:05,400
to speak, this is matter of
fact, and when I do
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00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,000
presentations, I try as much as
I can, especially when I was
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working in a pre sales or
technical consultant role, not
347
00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:18,000
to go deep dive in the technical
aspects into more how this will
348
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,700
benefit the business.
So Oh, and this then the whole
349
00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:26,300
thing behind the podcast.
Actually done is how we can go
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00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:29,700
talk to business.
People who might or might not
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00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:34,200
have enough knowledge about the
technology itself, but we can
352
00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:37,500
deliver the message for them.
Why this technology?
353
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:42,500
It can increase your Revenue, it
can decrease your cost, blah
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00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:44,800
blah blah.
You know, like this is this is
355
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,000
the way I've seen it and I
think, you know, I was pretty
356
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,200
lucky to have the chance.
I told you to do presentations
357
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,500
for big customers in major
events at least here in Dubai,
358
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,600
and even sometimes I was doing
it for other colleagues
359
00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,000
globally, in sales kickoff
events and so on.
360
00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:04,700
So yeah, this helped me a lot.
Yeah, but as usual I like to
361
00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:06,900
hear it also from the expert,
this is why I asked you the
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00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:12,700
question final question for you
don't before we finish.
363
00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:15,900
Just because you know I see this
energy and you now can you share
364
00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:19,400
any anecdote or experience from
you know?
365
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,600
That showed how effective
communication it created a last
366
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:28,700
impact for you and the audience
like as maybe final thought on
367
00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:33,500
this topic also as well.
Well, I can tell you a story
368
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:39,800
from my clown days, where I kind
of first had an insight as to
369
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,000
what made an audience lean
forward and pay attention.
370
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:50,300
There's a classic terrifying
exercise in in clown presence
371
00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:54,400
work, it's called save the show.
And that's where the class sits
372
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,200
in the audience and the student
is on stage behind a curtain.
373
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:01,800
This teacher also sits in the
Audience.
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00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,200
The past for the student, is to
enter the stage and make the
375
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,400
audience laugh with.
Absolutely no preparation.
376
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,900
And the teacher has given the
instruction to the audience.
377
00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:18,800
Absolutely, no pity laughter.
You can't laugh because you feel
378
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,900
bad for the person, you can only
laugh if you legitimately are
379
00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:30,500
involuntarily made to laugh.
So needless to say, it's painful
380
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:34,300
like I did it.
I tried I tried everything
381
00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:35,900
silence, like, I'm running
around.
382
00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:38,400
I'm sweating.
I'm going like this.
383
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,500
I'm running into the wall.
I'm pretending to fall down.
384
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:44,400
They were hating just just
silence.
385
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,300
Just just pain.
And in my brain.
386
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:47,700
I'm panicking.
I'm panicking.
387
00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:50,900
What I'm going to do like, so
I'm just like, it was hot.
388
00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:52,800
Like my shirt was sticking to
me.
389
00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:56,500
So finally, I stopped in the
middle of the stage.
390
00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:01,000
I connected with myself.
I looked in the eyes.
391
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:06,500
In the audience and I said, what
do you guys want?
392
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:13,000
And that moment everybody left
the moment, I acknowledged the
393
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:18,100
energy between us and I stopped
focusing on me and I started
394
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:22,700
focusing on What's between us.
Like, that was the moment I
395
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:24,300
connected and that was the
moment.
396
00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:29,200
I was like, oh, oh, it's not how
good I am, it's how scene I am,
397
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,800
it's a present, I am that.
That's what makes me engaging.
398
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,300
So it's a huge pressure.
It's takes a lot of pressure off
399
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:39,700
because you don't have to be a
perfect presenter.
400
00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:44,900
You just have to be a present
because presenter that's
401
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:49,600
spot-on.
I would say again because no one
402
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,900
can be a perfect presented from
day one and maybe I'm giving
403
00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:56,500
this advice for people who they
are, just in the early stages is
404
00:24:56,500 --> 00:25:01,000
also of their career.
But yeah, like I agree 100%.
405
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:04,300
Ain't so don't well.
I said the final but final final
406
00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:07,900
one where people can learn more
about you, and, you know, maybe
407
00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:11,700
follow you Sure.
Well first of all, if any of
408
00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:14,900
your audience wants a free
exercise to build your
409
00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:21,100
engagement, I like to say the
perfect presentation is kind of
410
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:24,200
balanced between focusing on
your content and focusing on
411
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,200
connection with your audience
and if you want an exercise to
412
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,500
work on that just go to Don
caller.com forward, slash Tech
413
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:35,200
engage Tech engage they can get
a free PDF for that but
414
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:39,000
otherwise just go to wink
techtalks.com.
415
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:43,100
I'm that's info about my class,
and I'd love to just connect
416
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:45,400
with books on LinkedIn.
That's primarily where I live,
417
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:47,500
great.
I will share all these things in
418
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:51,600
the episode description and on
the YouTube description as well.
419
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,500
Well, don't, thank you very much
for joining me today.
420
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:59,600
On this episode that was really
engaging, and really engaging.
421
00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:06,400
And at the end, as usual, if you
are watching this on YouTube,
422
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,400
don't forget to subscribe to the
channel.
423
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,300
If you are listening, this one,
Our favorite podcasting platform
424
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:13,900
again, don't forget to
subscribe, tell your friends,
425
00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:18,100
tell your colleagues.
As we are bringing guests
426
00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:22,200
special guest in each episode
from now on and until we meet in
427
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,900
the next time.
Thank you very much and we'll be
428
00:26:24,900 --> 00:26:27,000
seeing each other's next time.
Bye bye.
00:00:06,500 --> 00:00:09,200
Hello and welcome to a new
episode of the CTO show with
2
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:10,700
mammoths.
My name is Muhammad.
3
00:00:10,700 --> 00:00:15,600
And in each episode, I discussed
several topics from the digital
4
00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,700
transformation cybersecurity and
emerging tech.
5
00:00:18,700 --> 00:00:21,300
And as you know, sometimes I
have with me, also thought
6
00:00:21,300 --> 00:00:25,800
leaders entrepreneurs and
experts who shared with us.
7
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,600
Their insights experiences about
topics related.
8
00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,300
Of course, to technology and
business.
9
00:00:31,300 --> 00:00:34,800
And today, I'm very happy to
have with me here in this
10
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:39,600
episode Don Collier.
Who's joining me from The u.s.
11
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,900
Today Dawn can you just
introduce yourself what you do
12
00:00:44,900 --> 00:00:48,500
and we can take it down from
there for sure.
13
00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:50,700
Mehmet.
First, thank you for having me
14
00:00:51,100 --> 00:00:54,400
super great to be on the CTO
show.
15
00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,100
And where are you?
Where are you based?
16
00:00:57,100 --> 00:00:59,600
I'm in Dubai.
Oh, cool.
17
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,300
All right, well, it's probably
the middle of the night or
18
00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:04,099
something for you.
Its morning, time here in the
19
00:01:04,099 --> 00:01:08,200
San Francisco Bay Area.
But I thanks for having me.
20
00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:12,300
Yeah, what I do.
I speak a technical trade shows,
21
00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:16,800
primarily cybersecurity.
I'll be at RSA in Black Cat this
22
00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:22,200
year and I pitched talk at
Defcon, we'll see if it goes but
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what I do is deliver marketing
presentations but I try to make
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technical things understandable
to non-technical folks and I
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also helped technical folks
engage with their technical
26
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content.
Tent with non-technical folks
27
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and day to day here in the
peninsula.
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It's South of San Francisco.
I teach technical public
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speaking at Google.
That's, that's very cool.
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And actually this topic, you
know, as very close to my heart
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because, you know, part of the
things I used to do back is
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doing presentations for people
who probably they don't
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understand Tech.
And the first thing, you know,
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because when I Was preparing for
the episode, I did some research
35
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and And you know, I found
something very interesting about
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you don't like, you have a
diverse background, you know,
37
00:02:13,100 --> 00:02:16,500
from performing like Blue, Man
Group presenting, Tech
38
00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:19,900
conferences.
So how do you think, you know,
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00:02:19,900 --> 00:02:25,400
your experience as like shaped,
you know, the way you can give
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the information and, you know,
this enhancement of the
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00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:34,300
technical presentation in a way
that, you know, everyone can
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understand it.
We're sure well yeah as you say
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I have a pretty diverse
background kind of the thing
44
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that directly connects to what
we're talking about is I was a
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clown I was wowed with the Blue
Man Group for a short time.
46
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I was a host clown for a company
called Spiegel world and in or
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North American tour.
I don't know if any of your
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audience has been to Vegas and
seen absent that Caesars Palace.
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I was the host, but for a
similar show in North America
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for that.
That and a lot of that world is
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being able to really be
conscious of the audience and
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interact with the audience and
understand where the audience
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is, and what I need to do, to
keep the audience moving on a
54
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journey.
And there's a huge amount of
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crossover to technical
presentations and what I've
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found when I'm working with
developers and engineers, and
57
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cybersecurity folks is, there's
no lack of passion.
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Like people are extremely
passionate about their content.
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But when it comes to presenting
it but almost ashamed of their
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passion and but ironically, that
passion is exactly what is going
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to connect them to their
audience.
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If they get confident enough and
clear away, the blocks to kind
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of just present themselves and
connect with their audiences in
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that way.
And the other thing when I
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turned, like I hate to even use
the word clown because it has a
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bad connotation here in the
states, at least.
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But I like to think of more of
the The concept is clown
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presence, being an office
standing up there and being
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authentic and really
authentically connecting with
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your audience and the second
half of that is your audience
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and being aware of who you're
speaking to, and kind of
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starting where they're at.
That's a particular challenge
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for technical folks because
they're in their world all day
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long, and then when they walk
out to speak about it, they
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think everybody's kind of coming
from, where they're coming from
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and shifting to that audience
perspective.
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Is critical when delivering
technical presentations and I
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think you wrote a book about
this, right?
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00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,900
Don I use the book Wing
transforming public speaking
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with clown presence, that's
correct exactly, right?
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00:04:49,100 --> 00:04:52,300
Yeah, thank you for pitching my
book Mehmet.
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I appreciate it.
But yeah, it gives some some
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basic techniques, not even
technical, specific more.
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How to I come from a long
Toastmasters background.
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00:05:04,100 --> 00:05:05,600
I'm sure you have like, five
times.
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Toastmasters meetings within 10
miles of you over there, there's
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a lot of focus in traditional
public.
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Speaking on getting me the
medium really nice like clearing
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00:05:19,100 --> 00:05:22,800
up my filler words, making sure
my gestures are okay but there's
90
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,500
a lack of.
How do I connect?
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00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:28,500
How do I engage?
I didn't see a lot of that and
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so that's what I focus on in the
book.
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00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,800
Yeah, back of course you talk in
these big conferences like I
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00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,900
gotta say which is like I think
starts after tomorrow CS black
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00:05:40,900 --> 00:05:44,500
hat and all these big
conferences myself, you know,
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sometimes being also from
technical background, I sit in a
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presentation and, you know, like
I would be like just doing like
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00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,100
this.
So what this guy's is doing so,
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you know, while on stage, what
do you think are the most common
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00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,600
mistakes?
You see presenters make at such
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00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:02,900
events and how they can avoid
that?
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00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:10,600
Wow, that's a big question and
that but I think as I kind of
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mentioned before virtually, all
of these problems will be
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corrected.
If your presenters or your
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audience asks three questions
before they build their
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00:06:22,900 --> 00:06:25,900
presentations, three questions
about the audience, I'm sure
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00:06:25,900 --> 00:06:29,600
they know what they want to
communicate, but first who's
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00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:33,300
going to be in that room?
Meaning what is their level of
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Experience and expertise like
what kind of definitions do you
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need to give how deep into the
weeds?
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00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,800
Can you go?
So, first question, who's going
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to be their?
Second question, what exactly do
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you want that audience to do
when they're done with your
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presentation?
And kind of have that sentence
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as a yardstick or meter stick?
If you will for all of our
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European, folks, and hold that
up against every part of your
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Presentation.
And if it's not contributing
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00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,900
directly for what you want your
audience to do, that's a great
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reason to edit it out.
And the last question is, what's
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in it for the audience?
Why do they care?
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00:07:15,900 --> 00:07:18,900
And that should be the most
important thing you should lead
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00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:21,300
with that?
Like, Mehmet, you have this
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problem?
What I'm going to talk about is
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going to show you how to solve
your problem and coming from
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that perspective.
So those three questions are
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00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,300
going to solve a host of other
problems in your technical
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00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:34,800
presentation.
And this is a very good point
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00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,900
because I used to work as a pre
sales consultant.
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00:07:37,900 --> 00:07:40,400
And, you know, we will train for
this.
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00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,400
How important is to structure
because I see people do
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sometimes this mistake, where
they start pitching before,
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understanding what the audience
wants, right?
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00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:56,300
So, how it's important to
structure it in a way that, I
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mean, it will resonate with the
audience.
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00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:05,200
I mean, very important.
The answer are you familiar?
136
00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,200
Maybe your audience is familiar
with Barbara, mintos pyramid
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00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,300
principle.
It's kind of a classic business
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writing Yang.
One of the things that she spoke
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about in her book was the SC q a
introduction framework and I'll
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00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,900
briefly explain it and I find it
this also solves a ton of
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00:08:22,900 --> 00:08:26,500
problems for folks that are
launching in just like you're
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saying before understand before
getting the Beans on their side
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for the journey.
So SC Q e' stands for situation.
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Complication question, answer,
so situation.
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You kind of start by getting
your audience, nodding saying
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something non-controversial.
Hey folks, we all hate traffic,
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right?
Just something to get everybody
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00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:53,800
nodding along, then you ask you
add a complication but traffic
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makes us late.
Am I, right?
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So this is the problem.
So situation.
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Everybody hates traffic
complication is it makes us
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late.
So then you ask the question,
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which is leading into your
solution.
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So how do we solve this problem?
How do we solve being laid all
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the time?
Then your answer is kind of your
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solution that you're delivering
in your technical presentation.
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That's why you should buy my
teleportation device or
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something like that.
You know what I mean?
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00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:24,900
Yeah.
So you're kind of getting
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starting where your audience is
at where they're nodding saying
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what Is the problem, which they
also like, yeah, that's a
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problem, I agree.
And then you say here's how
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we'll solve it.
Now, this brings the second
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question, I have here, how
important because you sometimes
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you need to relate things.
How important is storytelling
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when you do public speaking,
Well, it's really important, but
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it's like a separate skill.
It's something that takes work,
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00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,800
and it's also kind of
counterintuitive for technical,
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00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,800
folks, it does.
Because we all see it all the
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time, when we watch movies, when
we watch TV, that sort of thing,
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but there are some specific kind
of almost fill in the blanks
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that can make a compelling
technical story.
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However, I would like to because
sometimes when a manager gives a
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note, like, you need to tell
more stories, we need more
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narrative, it's good to ask
questions because sometimes what
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people are looking for is
context, like, can you give me
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context to what you're talking
about?
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And that just means what's the
driver of the problem or the
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audience.
They want to hear.
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Why do I care about this problem
that you're solving?
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And from their perspective that
maybe what Looking for when
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they're asking for more
narrative or story but then
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they're also of course is
classic storytelling.
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And there are a few, there's
four primary things that your
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audience could do to quickly add
a story.
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First, you find a relatable
protagonist, this can be a
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customer, it can be a Founder.
Some kind of protagonist where
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your audience is like, yeah, I
get that.
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At and there should be some kind
of high stakes problem.
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This protagonist had a ton of
data had no way to sort it.
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So that's the high-stakes
problem.
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So you have a relatable
protagonist a high-stakes
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problem then and this is the,
the weird part or technical.
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Folks, you need to give setting
talk about emotion and setting.
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This is what makes it a story
and we were really stressed.
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It was coming up into the end of
the fourth quarter.
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It was fall outside.
It was really cold.
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And there was a lot of pressure
in the office.
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This feels really weird to add
to a technical presentation, but
200
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it kind of adds to the story of
makes it a story.
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And then, lastly, the last
important thing for a story, is
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there needs to be a conscious
decision where the protagonist
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says, you know what, we're going
to fix some kind of a filter and
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make this data make sense.
So, that's the conscious
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decision.
The problem is not the story.
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The trauma is not the Story.
That decision is the story.
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Yeah, I'm that's very
insightful.
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Don't really, now, I don't know
how, but when I shifted roles, I
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used to sit on the, you know,
the customer side if you want.
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I was like a sysadmin kind of
introvert and all of a sudden I
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was thrown in front of hundreds
of people.
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I didn't face this, but when I
talked to pee is, you know, at
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least in the tech industry, one
of the things that they tell me
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is, you know, We get so nervous
when we are on the stage and,
215
00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:54,100
you know, we are sharing with,
don't know what to, you know, we
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have the ideas, but all of a
sudden we lose it, right?
217
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:03,900
So, what advice is, can, can you
give for, you know, people who
218
00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:08,700
have to do that public speaking
in front of large audiences?
219
00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:11,700
And I'm speaking, of course,
here about anything related to
220
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our industry, like tech
industry.
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00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:17,900
Absolutely.
Well first both new memories and
222
00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:20,400
all the people that say that
you're not alone.
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Every single person in my
technical public speaking
224
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classes.
Their primary goal is to get
225
00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,300
over anxiety and nervousness
like without fail and me too.
226
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I get super nervous.
I think everyone gets nervous
227
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before presentation.
So first, you're not alone.
228
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The challenge becomes when it
becomes paralyzing, right?
229
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When you start losing your your
memory or stuff like that.
230
00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:47,200
So I'll give you two quick.
Takeaway tips.
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00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:53,100
First thing and this feels very
obvious low-stakes practice.
232
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That's why I'm a fan of
Toastmasters.
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00:13:55,100 --> 00:13:58,800
I'm not crazy about all their
content but it's a weekly thing.
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You get up ev'rybody.
Generally gets to speak in front
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00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,000
of an or 12 people every single
meeting.
236
00:14:05,300 --> 00:14:09,100
And so if you're a person who
makes one really important
237
00:14:09,100 --> 00:14:11,800
presentation, every two months,
of course, you're going to be
238
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,600
terrified, but if you're giving
love Takes presentations all the
239
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,900
time.
It'll be a lot less concerning
240
00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:21,900
and this last tip this is a
little more internal but this is
241
00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:23,600
the one that really works for
me.
242
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,300
When I'll be coming up in front
of some high stakes, folks,
243
00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:33,600
Executives c-suite, when I'm
speaking in front of powerful
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00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,300
folks that know a lot more than
me about a lot of things.
245
00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:41,800
Usually, I'm there because I
know more than them about
246
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,400
something and I'm there to be of
service.
247
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I'm there to help them
understand what I have.
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All I am is a medium.
All I am is a pipe for that
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information.
All I need to do is figure out
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listen to them.
What do I need to do to make
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sure that you can understand
this information?
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And it just kind of helps my ego
step completely out of the way.
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So I call the service mindset,
if you can shift to a service
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mindset rather than a mindset
of, I Hope they like me.
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I hope they do this.
I hope they like me.
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It will take the pressure off
you the speaker.
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I agree 100% because this is
also how I reach a, you know, a
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place where I practice, right?
So at something it, isn't it
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personally with me before going
to even just a normal meetings
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not doesn't have necessarily to
be a presentation.
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I had the chance to represent,
you know, my former employers
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on, you know stages.
Partner IDC and such stuff.
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And, you know, like, yeah.
And I was taking myself.
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Look like these are like, gold
will people like me at the end
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of the day, right?
So just be relaxed and just, you
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know, go and do it and you will
do fine.
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Now, one thing, I noticed all
the time specially in the big
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conferences and the most
engaging presentations, because
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also I was attending sales
kickoffs and so on the most
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engaging presentations I
attended where once were With
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visuals like with charts, you
know, maybe some videos.
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What is your take on on this
boy?
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He can on visuals.
Well there's you know there's
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multiple books on this stuff,
some of which again I don't
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completely agree with.
I think especially for technical
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presentations, having a picture
of a beach and one word that
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says believe is not going to
make your audience.
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Exactly hard.
But I think learning techniques
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for data, visualization is
extremely helpful and there's a
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Book called storytelling with
data last name of the author is
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now flick.
And this seems to be kind of the
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current Bible of that world.
Kind of the classic guy.
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His name is, what's his name?
Tough D Edward, tufte is kind of
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The Godfather of this stuff.
It's real deep and if, and if
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you have some data Vis, folks in
your audience, I'm sure they're
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aware of tough D but or the less
focused I think storytelling.
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With data is a great starting
point and I think the basic
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takeaway is do the work for your
audience.
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Don't just dump all the data on
screen and then expect your
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audience to like sort through
it.
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You sort through it and put your
results on screen and that could
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mean having a chart and then
having a big arrow with the
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title on the top saying your
intended Insight.
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But basically if you put a chart
up there, With undigested data
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that means your audience isn't
listening to you for a while.
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All they're doing is like okay,
what is this?
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How can I find a different
conclusion that he's trying to
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sell?
Just take that entire dialogue
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away and give them your
conclusion.
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I would go a question outside of
what I have prepared here
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because you just mentioned this
What do you think about even not
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using a slide deck at all?
Because I've seen people who do
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and talk to technical people
without one single slide, maybe
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they have, just their names
behind them.
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00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,800
But they have this way of really
catching the audiences.
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Like, what do you think about
it?
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That's amazing.
I mean it just reminds me
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there's this famous demo.
It was a meet up in New York
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City, shoot maybe it's twilio, a
twilio demo and the founder he
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quoted in real-time and app
which then texted the entire
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00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:05,400
audience loved the room in real
time and you saw him Building it
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and correcting his code on the
screen, I think if like
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absolutely if you can throw away
your deck and get more engaged
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with the audience, what do you
think you're going to remember
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00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:23,700
like something that affects
Mehmet in the audience in real
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00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:27,600
time or just sitting back and
ingesting like I'm watching
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00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:32,400
Netflix of some guy that I could
easily have time shifted this
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00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,500
and watched a video of it.
Is there some way that you can
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make it present in happening in
that moment?
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That's going to be the most
memorable way to deliver your
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solution.
Yeah, I agree with you.
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Don't actually, I have still,
like two questions for you for
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today.
So, I'm sure that many of the
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audience would be watching or
listening to this episode.
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They have, you know, inside the
same to increase their
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visibility, you know, whether
inside their companies or maybe
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00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:04,700
in the industry that they are
in.
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How can the livering, a
compelling, technical
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presentation?
You think help them achieve this
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and what are the potential
career benefits for someone who
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I would say, master the
technical presentation Oh gosh.
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Well I should ask you.
Ma'am it.
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I mean, why do you have a
podcast?
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00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:28,500
If you become a thought leader
just by the nature of stepping
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00:20:28,500 --> 00:20:30,300
into that world.
Oh cool.
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00:20:30,500 --> 00:20:34,800
Thank you for saying this.
Yeah, probably should be a
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00:20:34,808 --> 00:20:38,300
question for myself but I always
like to take, you know, the
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00:20:38,300 --> 00:20:44,100
opinion of an expert also as
well because I figured out quite
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00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:46,600
long time.
Back that being very good.
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00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,100
Technically being good in
communication with Out, you
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00:20:50,108 --> 00:20:53,500
know, doing excellent
presentation and catch the
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00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:57,700
audience at, you know,
attention, you know, it would
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00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:01,900
keep a gap for you and for me,
one of the things because I love
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to speak, this is matter of
fact, and when I do
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presentations, I try as much as
I can, especially when I was
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working in a pre sales or
technical consultant role, not
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00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:18,000
to go deep dive in the technical
aspects into more how this will
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00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,700
benefit the business.
So Oh, and this then the whole
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00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:26,300
thing behind the podcast.
Actually done is how we can go
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00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:29,700
talk to business.
People who might or might not
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00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:34,200
have enough knowledge about the
technology itself, but we can
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00:21:34,300 --> 00:21:37,500
deliver the message for them.
Why this technology?
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00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:42,500
It can increase your Revenue, it
can decrease your cost, blah
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00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:44,800
blah blah.
You know, like this is this is
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the way I've seen it and I
think, you know, I was pretty
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lucky to have the chance.
I told you to do presentations
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00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,500
for big customers in major
events at least here in Dubai,
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00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,600
and even sometimes I was doing
it for other colleagues
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00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,000
globally, in sales kickoff
events and so on.
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So yeah, this helped me a lot.
Yeah, but as usual I like to
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00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:06,900
hear it also from the expert,
this is why I asked you the
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00:22:06,900 --> 00:22:12,700
question final question for you
don't before we finish.
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00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:15,900
Just because you know I see this
energy and you now can you share
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00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:19,400
any anecdote or experience from
you know?
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00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,600
That showed how effective
communication it created a last
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00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:28,700
impact for you and the audience
like as maybe final thought on
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00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:33,500
this topic also as well.
Well, I can tell you a story
368
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:39,800
from my clown days, where I kind
of first had an insight as to
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00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:43,000
what made an audience lean
forward and pay attention.
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00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:50,300
There's a classic terrifying
exercise in in clown presence
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00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:54,400
work, it's called save the show.
And that's where the class sits
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00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,200
in the audience and the student
is on stage behind a curtain.
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00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:01,800
This teacher also sits in the
Audience.
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00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,200
The past for the student, is to
enter the stage and make the
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00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,400
audience laugh with.
Absolutely no preparation.
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00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:14,900
And the teacher has given the
instruction to the audience.
377
00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:18,800
Absolutely, no pity laughter.
You can't laugh because you feel
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00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,900
bad for the person, you can only
laugh if you legitimately are
379
00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:30,500
involuntarily made to laugh.
So needless to say, it's painful
380
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:34,300
like I did it.
I tried I tried everything
381
00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:35,900
silence, like, I'm running
around.
382
00:23:35,900 --> 00:23:38,400
I'm sweating.
I'm going like this.
383
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,500
I'm running into the wall.
I'm pretending to fall down.
384
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:44,400
They were hating just just
silence.
385
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,300
Just just pain.
And in my brain.
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00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:47,700
I'm panicking.
I'm panicking.
387
00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:50,900
What I'm going to do like, so
I'm just like, it was hot.
388
00:23:50,900 --> 00:23:52,800
Like my shirt was sticking to
me.
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00:23:53,100 --> 00:23:56,500
So finally, I stopped in the
middle of the stage.
390
00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:01,000
I connected with myself.
I looked in the eyes.
391
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:06,500
In the audience and I said, what
do you guys want?
392
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:13,000
And that moment everybody left
the moment, I acknowledged the
393
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:18,100
energy between us and I stopped
focusing on me and I started
394
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:22,700
focusing on What's between us.
Like, that was the moment I
395
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:24,300
connected and that was the
moment.
396
00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:29,200
I was like, oh, oh, it's not how
good I am, it's how scene I am,
397
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,800
it's a present, I am that.
That's what makes me engaging.
398
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,300
So it's a huge pressure.
It's takes a lot of pressure off
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00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:39,700
because you don't have to be a
perfect presenter.
400
00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:44,900
You just have to be a present
because presenter that's
401
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:49,600
spot-on.
I would say again because no one
402
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,900
can be a perfect presented from
day one and maybe I'm giving
403
00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:56,500
this advice for people who they
are, just in the early stages is
404
00:24:56,500 --> 00:25:01,000
also of their career.
But yeah, like I agree 100%.
405
00:25:01,100 --> 00:25:04,300
Ain't so don't well.
I said the final but final final
406
00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:07,900
one where people can learn more
about you, and, you know, maybe
407
00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:11,700
follow you Sure.
Well first of all, if any of
408
00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:14,900
your audience wants a free
exercise to build your
409
00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:21,100
engagement, I like to say the
perfect presentation is kind of
410
00:25:21,100 --> 00:25:24,200
balanced between focusing on
your content and focusing on
411
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,200
connection with your audience
and if you want an exercise to
412
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,500
work on that just go to Don
caller.com forward, slash Tech
413
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:35,200
engage Tech engage they can get
a free PDF for that but
414
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:39,000
otherwise just go to wink
techtalks.com.
415
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:43,100
I'm that's info about my class,
and I'd love to just connect
416
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:45,400
with books on LinkedIn.
That's primarily where I live,
417
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:47,500
great.
I will share all these things in
418
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:51,600
the episode description and on
the YouTube description as well.
419
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,500
Well, don't, thank you very much
for joining me today.
420
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:59,600
On this episode that was really
engaging, and really engaging.
421
00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:06,400
And at the end, as usual, if you
are watching this on YouTube,
422
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,400
don't forget to subscribe to the
channel.
423
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,300
If you are listening, this one,
Our favorite podcasting platform
424
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:13,900
again, don't forget to
subscribe, tell your friends,
425
00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:18,100
tell your colleagues.
As we are bringing guests
426
00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:22,200
special guest in each episode
from now on and until we meet in
427
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,900
the next time.
Thank you very much and we'll be
428
00:26:24,900 --> 00:26:27,000
seeing each other's next time.
Bye bye.
