April 10, 2023
#89 Leading in Technology: Insights from Jeff Ton, best seller author and keynote speaker
In this episode, we speak with Jeff Ton, a technology executive, author, and keynote speaker. Jeff shares his insights on leadership in the technology industry, discussing the key takeaways from his books Amplify Your Value and Amplify Your Job Search, and the topics he frequently speaks about on podcasts. He also shares his experiences working in various industries and how he approached specific challenges and opportunities, including the impact of COVID-19 on the technology industry. Jeff provides advice for early-career technology executives on cultivating important leadership qualities, and speaks to his valuable perspectives on the industry, featured in publications such as Forbes and Huffington Post.
Get to know more about Jeff and his work here:
http://www.jeffreyston.com/
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Hello and welcome to a new
episode of the City Hall Show
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with Muhammad.
My name is Muhammad.
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And as you know, in each episode
I share about different topics
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and Trends in technology and in
business sometimes we discuss
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cybersecurity digital
transformation, how to pronounce
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shape and so on.
And sometimes I have thought
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leaders and guests in the show.
And today, I'm very pleased to
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have with me, Jeff tone who is
an author and has more than 40
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years experience in the domain
of technology.
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So thank you very much, Jeff for
joining me today.
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If you can just give us a quick
introduction and what you do.
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Absolutely, it's great to be on
the program and thank you so
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much for reaching out and having
me be a guest, I love the
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opportunity to talk Tech and
business.
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That intersection is a is a
wonderful.
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Place to be as you mentioned
I've been doing this about 40
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years wide.
Variety of roles spent about 10
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years as Chief Information
officer for two, different
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organizations and then I joke
and say I went to the dark side
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and I joined a vendor company
and spent five or six years on
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the other side of the desk and
still talking to cios in about
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three years ago.
In fact, three years ago, just a
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few days ago was the Anniversary
of launching my business based
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on a couple of books that I had
written.
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I wrote a book in 2018 called
amplify your value, leading it
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with strategic vision and then
in 2020, staying on the
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Amplified theme.
I wrote a book by your job
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search strategies for finding
your dream job.
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So a little bit of departure
from the from the technology but
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what I do these days is I I'm in
technology advisor.
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So I've got a handful of
clients.
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That I provide them with better
the view from the CIO.
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What's what's the CIO thinking?
What are they, what are they
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dealing with?
And I host a podcast for one of
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my clients, I host podcast
called status go, which is about
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technology leadership and just
am having a great time doing it
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and it's so it's so good to be
here.
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Thank you.
Thank you, Jeff actually.
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Yeah, it's fun to have a podcast
because Actually, we share a lot
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of similar things because I work
also on the two sides of the
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desks and I work also like as a
technology consultant and
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previously, before I open my own
business, I was also working as
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a sales representative for one
of the tech companies, so I can
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see a lot of things in common.
So, yes, absolutely, yeah.
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Jeff you have authored, you
mentioned two books to amplify
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your value and amplify your job
search.
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Can you provide like an overview
of the key thing?
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Ways of these books and how they
can benefit Professionals in the
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tech industry.
Absolutely.
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So the first one amplify your
value was really written for the
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technology leader and it talks
in the book about how do you,
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how do you create your
strategies that underpin your
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company's Vision, right?
You have to have a vision for
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your department but it has As to
it has to underpin the
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businesses vision.
And so it's very business
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focused on how to create those
strategies and then how do you
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execute on those strategies?
And and so the book goes through
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several different steps in doing
that, guiding The Reader
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through, many of the aspects of
doing just that writing the
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strategies, executing the
strategies and it touches on
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everything from From vendor
management to having a set of
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principles by which you operate
your technology department and
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very well received.
Like I said, it was written in
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2018.
The, the second book really was
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born out of the pandemic in.
I saw all of the people that
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were losing their jobs because
things were shutting down and
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knew that people.
We're going to need a strategy
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for finding their next job and
it's something that we don't
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teach much in schools how to go
behind it.
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How to conduct a job search.
And so the book talks you
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through how to do a job search,
it's very data-driven so that
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would appeal to technology
listeners for sure.
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But it's not about finding just
any job.
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It's about finding a job that
that leverages your Strength is
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aligned with your values and
enables you to really feel
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engaged with the organization.
So it talks you through how to
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do that, that's great.
So part of the things you do
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Jeff is you want to Keynote
speaker and you mentioned, you,
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you do podcasting out of
curiosity, like usually what are
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the most common topics?
Or seems you know, people come
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and ask you to talk about, you
know, especially things that
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resonates with today's
technology landscape.
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Well, I speak on a wide variety
of topics and for the, for the
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technology, the technology
sector, I do a lot of speaking
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based kind of based on themes
from the book, amplifier your
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value.
So, if I'm speaking to a room
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full of cios or ctOS, we pull
out, I work with the organizers
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to talk about the themes and
say, okay, let's focus on this.
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So maybe maybe it is vendor
management.
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To get is, how do you create a
vision?
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And how do you convey it?
I get a lot of requests or
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talking about, how do you drive
change in an organization and
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that comes through communication
and storytelling and things like
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that.
So while it is for a technology
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audience because my stories are
all from the technology space
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after spending 40 years, there
it could appeal, broadly.
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I also get called upon it's been
really We interesting the last,
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I would say the last four or
five months, for one of my
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clients I have developed.
I worked on a team to develop an
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experiential leadership
development.
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Almost boot camp, where we take
leaders from around.
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I'm here in the u.s. from around
the u.s., bring them to the
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Columbia River Gorge in the
Pacific Northwest and we spend
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three days working on their
leadership with the He of the
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Lewis and Clark expedition.
So you know, they were explorers
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back in the early 1800s and
really had a huge accomplishment
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as they went from coast to coast
exploring the western part of
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the United States and there's so
many Leadership Lessons From
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that.
Well, so I have a couple of key
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notes that I do based on Lewis
and Clark.
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One of them is everything I
learned about leadership.
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I learned from Lewis and Clark
and It just seems like in the
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last six months, every every
phone call I get or email, I get
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for a keynote is they want me to
do?
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They want me to do leadership
and Lewis and Clark?
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So I've been doing a lot of that
recently.
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Oh that's good.
That's cool.
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Part of the things like because
when I was viewing your profile,
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you've worked with different
Industries actually is like I
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saw you've worked with banking
consumer electronics, real
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estate development.
And so on, so like can you just
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tell us a little bit?
About any specific challenges,
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or opportunities, you
encountered, when you know,
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working with different sectors,
like, like, shifting from one
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vertical to another, like, what
are, what word, like the major
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challenges and how did you
approach to solve them?
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And I'm asking this question
because I know sometimes, you
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know, I meet, you know, leaders
in the tech that they want to
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shift from one vertical to
another because sometimes they
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tell me, you know, like, I don't
want to be tied to the guy.
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I of the healthcare it, right?
Or I don't want any just my name
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to tie to, let's say
Hospitality.
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So, what you can share regarding
this experience, there is such a
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great question because I'm a
believer that we, as technology
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professionals are going to get
pigeonholed.
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So to speak into a vertical
because the more and more, we
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get involved with the business.
For our companies on the
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business side, where we really
need to spend the majority of
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our time as Tech leaders.
The more we get involved with
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that business, the more we're
going to be ingrained in that
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particular sector.
So I think I think we're seeing
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a trend the opposite way, but
you were, right?
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I have changed sectors several
times.
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And, and I would say that in
each case, What the challenge
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was once I got the position and
I'll talk about that here in a
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second.
It was learning the industry.
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What are the, what are the
trends?
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What are the challenges in a
specific industry?
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I mean moving from consumer
electronics to commercial, real
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estate development was a huge
ship, right?
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You're focused on building a
product over over here,
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televisions and radios and
satellite dish.
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Ashes and selling them to the to
the consumer really.
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And then on the other side
you're building skyscrapers and
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totally different products that
right and totally different
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challenges especially when you
think about the technology
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that's embedded in both of those
types of things, right?
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Learning that so digging in and
learning The ins and outs of
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that particular industry is, is
the challenge.
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And the way that the way that I
did it is the way that I have
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always learned new things is a
combination of reading.
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So, finding some experts that
have written some books.
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The last time I changed jobs
podcast didn't exist but today
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I'd go out and listen to podcast
right about a particular
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industry.
But more importantly Came to
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those around me.
I spent a lot of time.
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In fact, one of the, one of the
things, one of the chapters in
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my book, amplifier value talks
about this is, I've spent a lot
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of time doing what I call
ride-alongs, which is, I find a
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business executive that works
for the company that I work for
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and say, I want to Shadow you, I
want to follow you for a day,
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two days every, every month,
every couple of weeks, and I
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want to see the business the way
you see it, right?
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And that's to me, that's how you
learn, because you see different
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opportunities for technology
that you would not see if you
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weren't out there watching the
way that they watch.
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Now I want to back up a little
bit and talk about the challenge
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of minding a role in a sector
that you that you don't have
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experience in.
Way back in gosh, it's probably
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been 2010 2009, 2010, something
like that.
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I thought about going into
Healthcare it and so, one of the
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things I did was I started
interviewing cios that were in
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healthcare, right?
Because I wanted to learn what's
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a day in the life of being a CIO
in healthcare.
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And and the first, the first
person that I interviewed she
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was the Oprah a local hospital
here in Indiana and she says
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well Jeff no no Health Care
Systems going to hire you to be
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CIO.
You don't have any health care
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experience.
You have to have Healthcare
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experience due to get into this
into this market.
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And but she had a couple of
suggestions that would take me
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on a journey, which was she
said, well, why don't you try a
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healthcare software company?
Try going and seeing if you can
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get on.
On there, you'll get into the
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industry.
You'll start to learn the lingo
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and you'll start to get
credibility, because you'll know
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the language.
So to speak.
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And then she had another idea.
She said, you know, senior
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living facilities have the same
reporting requirements,
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technology requirements that
hospitals do but they're about
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10 years behind so they may be
more likely to take a chance on
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someone that doesn't have the
industry experience now.
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My career did not move in that
direction, but that just points
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to sometimes you have to, it's
not always a straight line,
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right?
You may have to take a position
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that is not the top position, or
you may have to take a position
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in an adjacent sector to get
into a sector because you don't
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have that experience.
And so your career Journey ends
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up being much like a river where
it's got twists and turns.
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And you're always, you've got a
goal of what you're trying to
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achieve.
Eve but you may have to divert
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just a little bit to get there.
That's very informative.
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I would say under the resonated
a lot with what I see and also
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what myself I experience because
I was on the customer side, I
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was working in adversity and I
used to face this challenge.
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Okay, you work in Academia so
probably going to continue in
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Academia and this is something I
don't want to do.
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So one thing that I start to
think about is exactly like
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similar to the advice that you
get.
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Need to be exposed to more
Technologies.
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And if I get exposed to more
Technologies, this is where I
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can, I don't know, like I can
showcase what I do.
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And actually it paid off for me
at least because I was hired as
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a pre sales consultant for a
company.
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A vendor just because I was not
just you know the admin it admin
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guy focusing on on one thing.
So I think this will resonate
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with a lot of people I ought to
you know go back because you
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Mentioned, you did the second
book during the pandemic and of
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course.
Now we thank goodness, like we
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get out of it.
But actually, it is the pandemic
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impacted, you know, people and
in fact, the technology
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industry.
So and we changed the way we
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work, right?
So, yes, do you anticipate as
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the long-term effect on the
industry after the pandemic?
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So where do you see things
moving from now on?
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Okay, so you want me to get my
Crystal ball out.
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And, you know, I think we saw a
couple of things during the
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pandemic.
Obviously, the way we work
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changed, I see us in a lot of
companies today are already
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there going to a more hybrid
approach.
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It's not going to be fully in
the office.
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It's not going to be fully
remote, it's going to be this
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hybrid and you see A lot of
pushback especially in the
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technology space with our
friends and development.
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They want to write code and they
want to write code at home and
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don't understand the reasoning
sometimes for coming into the
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office.
But I think we're going to see
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this approach of being hybrid
where you're in the office
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periodically.
Whether it's a couple of times a
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week or a couple of times a
month because you need that
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camaraderie you need that
socialization.
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In your organization to be able
to do that.
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I think the other thing that we
saw with the pandemic is this
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incredible acceleration of
Technology advances you think
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about the the the, the retail
space in pre-pandemic?
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Yeah.
You might have shopped with your
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smartphone a little bit, you
know, you had Amazon deliver
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your packages and things like
that.
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But everybody went digital,
right?
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It was it didn't matter if you
were buying groceries or if you
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were buying something from from
Walmart, you bought it online
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and they either delivered it to
you or they brought it out to
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you.
But but that technological
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advancement was like overnight,
right?
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I read something.
I think it was a report from
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McKinsey that talked about we
advance just what would have
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taken 10 years?
We Advanced that in like, 60
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days in adoption of these kinds
of Technologies and and I think
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one of the long-lasting impacts
of that is our customers.
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Now expect that from us, right?
Right.
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And that's the challenge is as
technologists.
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Is how do you How do you keep up
the pace that you experienced
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during the pandemic?
And still maintain compliance,
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still maintain security, still
maintain privacy.
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But really give the consumer,
whether you're a b2c or B2B
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business, the consumer, the
buyer of your product or
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service, give them the
experience that they're looking
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for and that they have now come
to expect.
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I think that's the challenge
that we're going to be living
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with for a long time now.
Yeah, I'm just glad if you allow
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me Jeff, like I would say that
the pandemic accelerated it was
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for quite some time.
In every report you read from
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the big weather Consulting
companies or, you know, in the
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00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:38,300
tech articles you need to
disrupt disrupt or be disrupted.
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We were reading this, right?
No one was doing it, like, since
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2009 2010.
We were hearing this, no one was
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doing it, and it seems that
someone just because of the
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pandemic, of course, he put what
we call now, the time boxing or
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if, you know, like, because I'm
I like that.
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You know, I eat that frog,
right?
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So you need to okay?
So it was kind of a eat that
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frog moment for businesses.
So either you do this now or you
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will be wiped out because the
only way you can communicate
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what they're as you said, B2B or
b2c is you need to have this
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digital transformation Journey.
You need to put your systems in
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into a modern way that everyone
can access online and funny
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enough, you know like for
example here in the Middle East
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usually signatures Digital
signatures were not pretty much
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accepted.
I mean, e-signature something
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like DocuSign.
So yeah, this have accelerated,
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you know, the adoption.
I think even globally I was
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reading the other day.
That DocuSign, they are now
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facing that they had this huge,
you know, surge in demand.
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And now, it's like kind of flat
because everyone has it now.
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So right, right, right, right.
It's like, how do you keep
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going?
Yeah.
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Yeah, exactly.
So I like it's not other topic
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for another episode on how you
grow sales in.
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00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,600
In incest.
Now, another thing you know, I
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want to ask you about and
because going back to the
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leadership in technology and
many people, I was one of them
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as well.
Like as I told you I start even
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as a from a technician or help
desk agent and then I went to
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the system admin whatever and
you know at some stage in my
315
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:24,100
career I was thinking okay one
day maybe I want to become a
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00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:26,800
tech executive.
So what do you Think for people
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who has this in mind like what
are the qualities?
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00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:34,800
They have to process and how
they can if they don't have it.
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00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:37,900
And but they have this Vision, I
want to become a CIO.
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I want to become a CTO.
Whatever, what are these
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qualities that they have could
to cultivate down their career
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II?
Love that question so much.
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When I look at where I am in my
career, is I've dedicated this
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chapter So to speak to
something, I call changing the
325
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face of it.
And what I mean by that is that
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many of us, myself included, got
promoted to positions of
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leadership because we were good,
technologists for me.
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00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:17,300
I was a I was a programmer.
I wrote code, I was awesome at
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00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:20,700
it and so now all of a sudden
I'm a team lead in, I'm a man
330
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then I'm a manager, then I'm a
director all because I could
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code didn't mean I Could lead
and didn't mean I could manage.
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00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:34,500
And so, I think the skills that
we need to really excel at the
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00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:41,500
role of CIO or CTO are what we
used to call soft skills right
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00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:44,500
there, they're not the hard
skills, the technology skills
335
00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:48,800
per say, yes, you need a
foundation in those but you need
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00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:52,200
collaboration.
How do you work together?
337
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,800
Not only within your own team
but across the business.
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00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:58,700
How do you, how do you
collaborate across the business
339
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communication?
We talked a few minutes ago
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about having a vision and being
able to communicate that vision.
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How do you do that?
How do you create this, this
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picture for your team and your
followers who say, I want to be
343
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a part of that, right?
It's through communication, it's
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things like design thinking,
with the customer in mind
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systems thinking, looking at the
broader picture of everything.
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So it's all those skills that
they sometimes teach in business
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school, but we don't pay much
attention.
348
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Tension because those are the
soft skills, right?
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I call them now that they're
essential skills.
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Yes.
And so I think for cios and ctOS
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or or those that aspire to be
deepening your business Acumen.
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00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:55,400
Understanding it, sounds silly
to say, but understanding how
353
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,200
your business makes money,
what's the, what are the value
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00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,100
streams?
What what problem does your
355
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company solve or its customers?
And as a technologist, we don't
356
00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:11,200
pay attention to that.
A lot of us think, especially
357
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the CIO role.
We think that our customer our
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00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,200
business colleagues.
Those that were right, we serve
359
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them, those are our customers.
Those are our business partners,
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our business colleagues.
Our customers are those that buy
361
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:30,200
our product and service, how can
we better our systems?
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Our applications are technology
to help them.
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And those are the kinds of
things that I think we need to
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be thinking about in the other,
the other piece that you always
365
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,700
have to be thinking about.
And you mentioned this, a little
366
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bit ago, is disruption.
Where's the disruption coming
367
00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:52,900
from?
I think, I think technology
368
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:57,600
leaders are in a very unique
position in most organizations.
369
00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:02,800
And that is we see across the
organization and we touch the
370
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,100
entire organization and
Therefore I think we've got this
371
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:09,900
better view on.
Where is a disrupt?
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00:24:09,900 --> 00:24:12,700
Where is it?
Disruption going to come from
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and if we can keep our eye on
where that is, maybe we become
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the disrupt or instead of the
disrupted to your point earlier.
375
00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:26,400
So those are the things that I
think aspiring cios and ctOS
376
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,200
need to be focused on.
Yes, you need that technology
377
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,900
Foundation.
Absolutely.
378
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,300
But you really need to be
working on those types of
379
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,200
Essential skills.
Yeah, I will add one thing Jeff
380
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:44,300
and this is also I learned that
by my Consulting career actually
381
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:47,200
I didn't have the time to learn
it when I was on the other side
382
00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:51,500
as it's very important that
technologists and you know,
383
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:56,100
anyone in technology understand
even if you are in a beginner or
384
00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,700
like, you're still on the bottom
side of the ladder, try to
385
00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:02,700
understand, you know, the
business outcomes of any
386
00:25:02,700 --> 00:25:07,100
technology and because this is I
think because I was also on the
387
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:12,900
other side as a vendor and this
was part of my job to educate my
388
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:16,100
customers.
What are you getting by doing
389
00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:19,000
this technology?
And what I used to advise them?
390
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,500
Don't look at me as a vendor.
Look at what you are doing as an
391
00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:26,000
initiative and see what this
initiative is affecting your
392
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,800
business.
And of course there are like,
393
00:25:28,100 --> 00:25:29,900
kind of basic things.
Is it?
394
00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:32,000
Increasing your Revenue,
increasing?
395
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,900
Your customer base.
Is it like reducing some Costs
396
00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:40,000
or time to do things and of
course number one, it's
397
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,600
increasing customer
satisfaction.
398
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,000
So yes, yeah, it was really nice
point from your side.
399
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:48,300
Now the final question I want to
ask you Jeff.
400
00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:51,900
I know that you have been
featured in various
401
00:25:51,900 --> 00:25:55,700
Publications, including force
and The Huffington Post.
402
00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:58,600
Can you touch give us some
insights or perspective about
403
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,500
what you have shared in these
Publications and maybe get some
404
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,900
like insights of invaluable?
Points to the industry
405
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,300
technology industry.
Yeah.
406
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:16,800
I you know it covers a wide
variety of topics always with
407
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:22,400
the the technology lens.
But from a leadership
408
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:33,200
perspective, is 011 that I wrote
for Forbes last fall is about
409
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:38,800
managing through.
Economic instability, right?
410
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,200
The, the economy is kind of on
Shaky Ground across the globe
411
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,200
certainly.
And so, how do you as the as the
412
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,800
technology leader?
How do you lead through that?
413
00:26:52,300 --> 00:26:58,400
And so, there was a couple of
key points in there about it
414
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:04,500
starts before, the economic
downturn, which is you always
415
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:07,800
are as your Boeing as your
organization is growing as your
416
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,600
company is growing.
I think in the back of your mind
417
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,600
you always have to have that
message playing what happens
418
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,200
when what happens when there's
an economic downturn.
419
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:23,400
How do I, how do I disassemble
everything that we built right?
420
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,800
And I think that's one of the
cool things that cloud has
421
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,500
brought us.
It gives us not only the ability
422
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:33,000
to scale up, but it gives us a
certain latitude to scale down.
423
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,100
Should we need to write?
So there's some technology
424
00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:41,000
advances that help with that,
but it's also in leading your
425
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,900
organization.
And how do you lead your
426
00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:46,000
organization through those
downturns?
427
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,600
And I'm a, I'm a big proponent
you and I have both spent time
428
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,400
on the on the vendor service
provider side of the desk.
429
00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:57,700
I'm a big proponent in
partnering with your service
430
00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:00,400
providers, right?
And so I'm actually working on a
431
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,900
post right now about just that.
How do you how do you Warm those
432
00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:08,600
Partnerships.
First of all, true Partnerships,
433
00:28:09,100 --> 00:28:12,800
not just, you know, the sales
rep that comes into your office
434
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,400
and says, hey, I want to be a
partner.
435
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:20,700
No, you want to sell me
something right, a true partner
436
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,000
one that's based on trust
transparency and respect.
437
00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:29,500
Mutual trust transparency
respect because when you're in a
438
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:33,900
downturn being able to turn to
your partners and say I need
439
00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:38,100
help not Just maybe people help,
but I need help with ideas.
440
00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:40,700
About how do we, how do we do
more with less?
441
00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:42,800
How do we get things?
How do we continue to move
442
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,200
forward?
Even though we're in this this
443
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,500
situation and it's amazing what
your partner's can bring to the
444
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:52,200
table, right?
So I mean that's a that's a post
445
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:57,100
that's going to be coming out.
Oh probably yet in April depends
446
00:28:57,100 --> 00:29:02,100
on depends on my writing time.
That's cool, that's cool.
447
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:05,300
Anyway what I will be doing is I
will be sharing the link.
448
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,300
Website Jeff.
So if anyone's on to, I know
449
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:11,800
that you post that as well and
if they want to also have a look
450
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,900
and maybe if they are interested
in, you read two books, any plan
451
00:29:15,900 --> 00:29:20,400
for a third book, just before we
close, I've got a couple that
452
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,600
are rolling around in my head
that I've not.
453
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,900
I've kind of started and stopped
started and stopped.
454
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:33,500
My goal is to have the third one
done, hopefully by the end of
455
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:34,700
the year.
Cool.
456
00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:38,900
We'll see again that writing
time, that Focus time to write
457
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,600
is is a challenge sometimes but
that's that's the next one.
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00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,800
So okay.
We will be waiting for that.
459
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,000
Yeah.
Well Jeff that please and I
460
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,800
would say I have listened to
your show since we were
461
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,700
introduced and I love what
you're doing and so thank you.
462
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,600
Anything I can do to help
promote your show.
463
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,600
I am happy to do that because I
think the conversations you are
464
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,600
having our valuable.
So thank you for bringing Back
465
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:06,900
to the world.
I appreciate it.
466
00:30:06,908 --> 00:30:09,700
Thank you very much, Jeff.
I really appreciate this and I
467
00:30:09,700 --> 00:30:14,800
thank you very much for.
I think it's early morning for
468
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:20,900
you know, not very early.
Okay, that's my got my coffee,
469
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,100
that's good.
Anyway, thank you very much for
470
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:30,600
being on the show and by this we
will be concluding as usual and
471
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,800
this is for my audience.
If you have any feedback any
472
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,100
question, Regarding this episode
or regarding the show in
473
00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:41,100
general, don't hesitate to get
back to me.
474
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:45,400
Either by email or you can
contact me over LinkedIn or
475
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,800
Twitter, I would be more than
happy to answer you, and if you
476
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,500
even are interested to join me
on the show and be a guest, I
477
00:30:53,508 --> 00:30:56,100
would be more than happy also to
discuss that with you
478
00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:58,700
one-on-one.
And last thing, don't forget to
479
00:30:58,700 --> 00:31:02,300
subscribe, if you are watching
this on YouTube to the channel
480
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,400
or if you are listening over
your favorite podcast, The
481
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,100
platform also please don't
forget to subscribe.
482
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:10,100
Thank you very much.
And until we meet in the next
483
00:31:10,100 --> 00:31:10,600
episode.
00:00:06,500 --> 00:00:08,900
Hello and welcome to a new
episode of the City Hall Show
2
00:00:08,900 --> 00:00:10,300
with Muhammad.
My name is Muhammad.
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00:00:10,300 --> 00:00:13,700
And as you know, in each episode
I share about different topics
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00:00:13,700 --> 00:00:17,600
and Trends in technology and in
business sometimes we discuss
5
00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,900
cybersecurity digital
transformation, how to pronounce
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00:00:20,900 --> 00:00:24,300
shape and so on.
And sometimes I have thought
7
00:00:24,300 --> 00:00:29,700
leaders and guests in the show.
And today, I'm very pleased to
8
00:00:29,700 --> 00:00:35,700
have with me, Jeff tone who is
an author and has more than 40
9
00:00:35,700 --> 00:00:38,800
years experience in the domain
of technology.
10
00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:41,200
So thank you very much, Jeff for
joining me today.
11
00:00:41,300 --> 00:00:45,800
If you can just give us a quick
introduction and what you do.
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00:00:46,500 --> 00:00:49,900
Absolutely, it's great to be on
the program and thank you so
13
00:00:49,900 --> 00:00:54,000
much for reaching out and having
me be a guest, I love the
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opportunity to talk Tech and
business.
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That intersection is a is a
wonderful.
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Place to be as you mentioned
I've been doing this about 40
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years wide.
Variety of roles spent about 10
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years as Chief Information
officer for two, different
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organizations and then I joke
and say I went to the dark side
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and I joined a vendor company
and spent five or six years on
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the other side of the desk and
still talking to cios in about
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three years ago.
In fact, three years ago, just a
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few days ago was the Anniversary
of launching my business based
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on a couple of books that I had
written.
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I wrote a book in 2018 called
amplify your value, leading it
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with strategic vision and then
in 2020, staying on the
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Amplified theme.
I wrote a book by your job
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search strategies for finding
your dream job.
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So a little bit of departure
from the from the technology but
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what I do these days is I I'm in
technology advisor.
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So I've got a handful of
clients.
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That I provide them with better
the view from the CIO.
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What's what's the CIO thinking?
What are they, what are they
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dealing with?
And I host a podcast for one of
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my clients, I host podcast
called status go, which is about
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00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:23,000
technology leadership and just
am having a great time doing it
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and it's so it's so good to be
here.
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Thank you.
Thank you, Jeff actually.
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Yeah, it's fun to have a podcast
because Actually, we share a lot
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00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:35,400
of similar things because I work
also on the two sides of the
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00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:40,000
desks and I work also like as a
technology consultant and
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00:02:40,100 --> 00:02:44,000
previously, before I open my own
business, I was also working as
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a sales representative for one
of the tech companies, so I can
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see a lot of things in common.
So, yes, absolutely, yeah.
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00:02:51,300 --> 00:02:54,000
Jeff you have authored, you
mentioned two books to amplify
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your value and amplify your job
search.
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00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,800
Can you provide like an overview
of the key thing?
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Ways of these books and how they
can benefit Professionals in the
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tech industry.
Absolutely.
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So the first one amplify your
value was really written for the
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technology leader and it talks
in the book about how do you,
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how do you create your
strategies that underpin your
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company's Vision, right?
You have to have a vision for
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00:03:27,300 --> 00:03:31,900
your department but it has As to
it has to underpin the
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businesses vision.
And so it's very business
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focused on how to create those
strategies and then how do you
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execute on those strategies?
And and so the book goes through
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several different steps in doing
that, guiding The Reader
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through, many of the aspects of
doing just that writing the
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strategies, executing the
strategies and it touches on
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everything from From vendor
management to having a set of
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principles by which you operate
your technology department and
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very well received.
Like I said, it was written in
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2018.
The, the second book really was
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born out of the pandemic in.
I saw all of the people that
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were losing their jobs because
things were shutting down and
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knew that people.
We're going to need a strategy
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for finding their next job and
it's something that we don't
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teach much in schools how to go
behind it.
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How to conduct a job search.
And so the book talks you
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through how to do a job search,
it's very data-driven so that
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would appeal to technology
listeners for sure.
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But it's not about finding just
any job.
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It's about finding a job that
that leverages your Strength is
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aligned with your values and
enables you to really feel
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engaged with the organization.
So it talks you through how to
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do that, that's great.
So part of the things you do
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Jeff is you want to Keynote
speaker and you mentioned, you,
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you do podcasting out of
curiosity, like usually what are
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the most common topics?
Or seems you know, people come
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and ask you to talk about, you
know, especially things that
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resonates with today's
technology landscape.
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Well, I speak on a wide variety
of topics and for the, for the
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technology, the technology
sector, I do a lot of speaking
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based kind of based on themes
from the book, amplifier your
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value.
So, if I'm speaking to a room
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full of cios or ctOS, we pull
out, I work with the organizers
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to talk about the themes and
say, okay, let's focus on this.
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So maybe maybe it is vendor
management.
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To get is, how do you create a
vision?
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And how do you convey it?
I get a lot of requests or
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talking about, how do you drive
change in an organization and
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that comes through communication
and storytelling and things like
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that.
So while it is for a technology
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audience because my stories are
all from the technology space
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after spending 40 years, there
it could appeal, broadly.
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I also get called upon it's been
really We interesting the last,
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I would say the last four or
five months, for one of my
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00:06:46,100 --> 00:06:51,700
clients I have developed.
I worked on a team to develop an
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experiential leadership
development.
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Almost boot camp, where we take
leaders from around.
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I'm here in the u.s. from around
the u.s., bring them to the
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00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:06,100
Columbia River Gorge in the
Pacific Northwest and we spend
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three days working on their
leadership with the He of the
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00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:15,400
Lewis and Clark expedition.
So you know, they were explorers
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back in the early 1800s and
really had a huge accomplishment
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as they went from coast to coast
exploring the western part of
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00:07:26,300 --> 00:07:29,800
the United States and there's so
many Leadership Lessons From
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00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:31,900
that.
Well, so I have a couple of key
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notes that I do based on Lewis
and Clark.
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One of them is everything I
learned about leadership.
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I learned from Lewis and Clark
and It just seems like in the
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last six months, every every
phone call I get or email, I get
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for a keynote is they want me to
do?
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They want me to do leadership
and Lewis and Clark?
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So I've been doing a lot of that
recently.
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Oh that's good.
That's cool.
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Part of the things like because
when I was viewing your profile,
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00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,300
you've worked with different
Industries actually is like I
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00:08:00,308 --> 00:08:04,100
saw you've worked with banking
consumer electronics, real
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estate development.
And so on, so like can you just
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00:08:08,700 --> 00:08:11,400
tell us a little bit?
About any specific challenges,
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00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,000
or opportunities, you
encountered, when you know,
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working with different sectors,
like, like, shifting from one
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vertical to another, like, what
are, what word, like the major
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challenges and how did you
approach to solve them?
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00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:28,600
And I'm asking this question
because I know sometimes, you
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know, I meet, you know, leaders
in the tech that they want to
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shift from one vertical to
another because sometimes they
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tell me, you know, like, I don't
want to be tied to the guy.
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I of the healthcare it, right?
Or I don't want any just my name
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to tie to, let's say
Hospitality.
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So, what you can share regarding
this experience, there is such a
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00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:57,600
great question because I'm a
believer that we, as technology
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professionals are going to get
pigeonholed.
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So to speak into a vertical
because the more and more, we
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00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:11,800
get involved with the business.
For our companies on the
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business side, where we really
need to spend the majority of
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our time as Tech leaders.
The more we get involved with
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that business, the more we're
going to be ingrained in that
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particular sector.
So I think I think we're seeing
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a trend the opposite way, but
you were, right?
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I have changed sectors several
times.
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And, and I would say that in
each case, What the challenge
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was once I got the position and
I'll talk about that here in a
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second.
It was learning the industry.
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00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:48,900
What are the, what are the
trends?
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00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:51,700
What are the challenges in a
specific industry?
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I mean moving from consumer
electronics to commercial, real
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estate development was a huge
ship, right?
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00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:02,400
You're focused on building a
product over over here,
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00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,300
televisions and radios and
satellite dish.
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00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:10,700
Ashes and selling them to the to
the consumer really.
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00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:17,100
And then on the other side
you're building skyscrapers and
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00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,400
totally different products that
right and totally different
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00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,700
challenges especially when you
think about the technology
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00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:26,800
that's embedded in both of those
types of things, right?
158
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:32,300
Learning that so digging in and
learning The ins and outs of
159
00:10:32,300 --> 00:10:35,500
that particular industry is, is
the challenge.
160
00:10:35,500 --> 00:10:39,000
And the way that the way that I
did it is the way that I have
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00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:45,600
always learned new things is a
combination of reading.
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00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:47,800
So, finding some experts that
have written some books.
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00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:53,700
The last time I changed jobs
podcast didn't exist but today
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00:10:53,700 --> 00:10:57,300
I'd go out and listen to podcast
right about a particular
165
00:10:57,300 --> 00:11:01,200
industry.
But more importantly Came to
166
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,000
those around me.
I spent a lot of time.
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00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,600
In fact, one of the, one of the
things, one of the chapters in
168
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:13,700
my book, amplifier value talks
about this is, I've spent a lot
169
00:11:13,700 --> 00:11:17,300
of time doing what I call
ride-alongs, which is, I find a
170
00:11:17,308 --> 00:11:21,300
business executive that works
for the company that I work for
171
00:11:21,300 --> 00:11:26,300
and say, I want to Shadow you, I
want to follow you for a day,
172
00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:30,900
two days every, every month,
every couple of weeks, and I
173
00:11:30,908 --> 00:11:34,100
want to see the business the way
you see it, right?
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00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:37,500
And that's to me, that's how you
learn, because you see different
175
00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:42,600
opportunities for technology
that you would not see if you
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00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,600
weren't out there watching the
way that they watch.
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00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:50,300
Now I want to back up a little
bit and talk about the challenge
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00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:55,000
of minding a role in a sector
that you that you don't have
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experience in.
Way back in gosh, it's probably
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been 2010 2009, 2010, something
like that.
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00:12:06,700 --> 00:12:12,100
I thought about going into
Healthcare it and so, one of the
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things I did was I started
interviewing cios that were in
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00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:19,400
healthcare, right?
Because I wanted to learn what's
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00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,100
a day in the life of being a CIO
in healthcare.
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And and the first, the first
person that I interviewed she
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00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:33,200
was the Oprah a local hospital
here in Indiana and she says
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00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,700
well Jeff no no Health Care
Systems going to hire you to be
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00:12:36,700 --> 00:12:38,500
CIO.
You don't have any health care
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00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:40,900
experience.
You have to have Healthcare
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00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:44,500
experience due to get into this
into this market.
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00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:49,100
And but she had a couple of
suggestions that would take me
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on a journey, which was she
said, well, why don't you try a
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healthcare software company?
Try going and seeing if you can
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get on.
On there, you'll get into the
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industry.
You'll start to learn the lingo
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and you'll start to get
credibility, because you'll know
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the language.
So to speak.
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And then she had another idea.
She said, you know, senior
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living facilities have the same
reporting requirements,
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technology requirements that
hospitals do but they're about
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10 years behind so they may be
more likely to take a chance on
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someone that doesn't have the
industry experience now.
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My career did not move in that
direction, but that just points
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to sometimes you have to, it's
not always a straight line,
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right?
You may have to take a position
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that is not the top position, or
you may have to take a position
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in an adjacent sector to get
into a sector because you don't
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have that experience.
And so your career Journey ends
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up being much like a river where
it's got twists and turns.
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And you're always, you've got a
goal of what you're trying to
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achieve.
Eve but you may have to divert
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just a little bit to get there.
That's very informative.
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I would say under the resonated
a lot with what I see and also
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what myself I experience because
I was on the customer side, I
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was working in adversity and I
used to face this challenge.
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Okay, you work in Academia so
probably going to continue in
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Academia and this is something I
don't want to do.
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So one thing that I start to
think about is exactly like
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similar to the advice that you
get.
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Need to be exposed to more
Technologies.
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And if I get exposed to more
Technologies, this is where I
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can, I don't know, like I can
showcase what I do.
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And actually it paid off for me
at least because I was hired as
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a pre sales consultant for a
company.
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A vendor just because I was not
just you know the admin it admin
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guy focusing on on one thing.
So I think this will resonate
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with a lot of people I ought to
you know go back because you
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Mentioned, you did the second
book during the pandemic and of
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course.
Now we thank goodness, like we
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get out of it.
But actually, it is the pandemic
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impacted, you know, people and
in fact, the technology
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industry.
So and we changed the way we
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work, right?
So, yes, do you anticipate as
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the long-term effect on the
industry after the pandemic?
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So where do you see things
moving from now on?
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Okay, so you want me to get my
Crystal ball out.
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And, you know, I think we saw a
couple of things during the
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pandemic.
Obviously, the way we work
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changed, I see us in a lot of
companies today are already
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there going to a more hybrid
approach.
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It's not going to be fully in
the office.
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It's not going to be fully
remote, it's going to be this
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hybrid and you see A lot of
pushback especially in the
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technology space with our
friends and development.
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They want to write code and they
want to write code at home and
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don't understand the reasoning
sometimes for coming into the
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office.
But I think we're going to see
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this approach of being hybrid
where you're in the office
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periodically.
Whether it's a couple of times a
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week or a couple of times a
month because you need that
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camaraderie you need that
socialization.
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In your organization to be able
to do that.
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I think the other thing that we
saw with the pandemic is this
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incredible acceleration of
Technology advances you think
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about the the the, the retail
space in pre-pandemic?
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Yeah.
You might have shopped with your
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smartphone a little bit, you
know, you had Amazon deliver
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your packages and things like
that.
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But everybody went digital,
right?
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It was it didn't matter if you
were buying groceries or if you
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were buying something from from
Walmart, you bought it online
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and they either delivered it to
you or they brought it out to
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you.
But but that technological
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advancement was like overnight,
right?
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I read something.
I think it was a report from
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McKinsey that talked about we
advance just what would have
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taken 10 years?
We Advanced that in like, 60
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days in adoption of these kinds
of Technologies and and I think
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one of the long-lasting impacts
of that is our customers.
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Now expect that from us, right?
Right.
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And that's the challenge is as
technologists.
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Is how do you How do you keep up
the pace that you experienced
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during the pandemic?
And still maintain compliance,
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still maintain security, still
maintain privacy.
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But really give the consumer,
whether you're a b2c or B2B
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business, the consumer, the
buyer of your product or
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service, give them the
experience that they're looking
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for and that they have now come
to expect.
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I think that's the challenge
that we're going to be living
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with for a long time now.
Yeah, I'm just glad if you allow
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me Jeff, like I would say that
the pandemic accelerated it was
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for quite some time.
In every report you read from
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the big weather Consulting
companies or, you know, in the
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00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:38,300
tech articles you need to
disrupt disrupt or be disrupted.
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00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:41,800
We were reading this, right?
No one was doing it, like, since
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2009 2010.
We were hearing this, no one was
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doing it, and it seems that
someone just because of the
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pandemic, of course, he put what
we call now, the time boxing or
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if, you know, like, because I'm
I like that.
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You know, I eat that frog,
right?
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So you need to okay?
So it was kind of a eat that
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frog moment for businesses.
So either you do this now or you
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will be wiped out because the
only way you can communicate
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what they're as you said, B2B or
b2c is you need to have this
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digital transformation Journey.
You need to put your systems in
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into a modern way that everyone
can access online and funny
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enough, you know like for
example here in the Middle East
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usually signatures Digital
signatures were not pretty much
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accepted.
I mean, e-signature something
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like DocuSign.
So yeah, this have accelerated,
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you know, the adoption.
I think even globally I was
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reading the other day.
That DocuSign, they are now
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facing that they had this huge,
you know, surge in demand.
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And now, it's like kind of flat
because everyone has it now.
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So right, right, right, right.
It's like, how do you keep
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going?
Yeah.
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Yeah, exactly.
So I like it's not other topic
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for another episode on how you
grow sales in.
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In incest.
Now, another thing you know, I
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want to ask you about and
because going back to the
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leadership in technology and
many people, I was one of them
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as well.
Like as I told you I start even
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as a from a technician or help
desk agent and then I went to
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the system admin whatever and
you know at some stage in my
315
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:24,100
career I was thinking okay one
day maybe I want to become a
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00:20:24,100 --> 00:20:26,800
tech executive.
So what do you Think for people
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who has this in mind like what
are the qualities?
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00:20:30,300 --> 00:20:34,800
They have to process and how
they can if they don't have it.
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00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:37,900
And but they have this Vision, I
want to become a CIO.
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00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:40,900
I want to become a CTO.
Whatever, what are these
321
00:20:40,900 --> 00:20:44,800
qualities that they have could
to cultivate down their career
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II?
Love that question so much.
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When I look at where I am in my
career, is I've dedicated this
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chapter So to speak to
something, I call changing the
325
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face of it.
And what I mean by that is that
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many of us, myself included, got
promoted to positions of
327
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leadership because we were good,
technologists for me.
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00:21:13,100 --> 00:21:17,300
I was a I was a programmer.
I wrote code, I was awesome at
329
00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:20,700
it and so now all of a sudden
I'm a team lead in, I'm a man
330
00:21:20,900 --> 00:21:24,400
then I'm a manager, then I'm a
director all because I could
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00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,200
code didn't mean I Could lead
and didn't mean I could manage.
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And so, I think the skills that
we need to really excel at the
333
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:41,500
role of CIO or CTO are what we
used to call soft skills right
334
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:44,500
there, they're not the hard
skills, the technology skills
335
00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:48,800
per say, yes, you need a
foundation in those but you need
336
00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:52,200
collaboration.
How do you work together?
337
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,800
Not only within your own team
but across the business.
338
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How do you, how do you
collaborate across the business
339
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,000
communication?
We talked a few minutes ago
340
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about having a vision and being
able to communicate that vision.
341
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How do you do that?
How do you create this, this
342
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:15,100
picture for your team and your
followers who say, I want to be
343
00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:18,900
a part of that, right?
It's through communication, it's
344
00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:23,800
things like design thinking,
with the customer in mind
345
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:27,900
systems thinking, looking at the
broader picture of everything.
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00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:33,500
So it's all those skills that
they sometimes teach in business
347
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school, but we don't pay much
attention.
348
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Tension because those are the
soft skills, right?
349
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I call them now that they're
essential skills.
350
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Yes.
And so I think for cios and ctOS
351
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or or those that aspire to be
deepening your business Acumen.
352
00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:55,400
Understanding it, sounds silly
to say, but understanding how
353
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:59,200
your business makes money,
what's the, what are the value
354
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,100
streams?
What what problem does your
355
00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:07,900
company solve or its customers?
And as a technologist, we don't
356
00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:11,200
pay attention to that.
A lot of us think, especially
357
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the CIO role.
We think that our customer our
358
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,200
business colleagues.
Those that were right, we serve
359
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,700
them, those are our customers.
Those are our business partners,
360
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our business colleagues.
Our customers are those that buy
361
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:30,200
our product and service, how can
we better our systems?
362
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Our applications are technology
to help them.
363
00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:38,100
And those are the kinds of
things that I think we need to
364
00:23:38,108 --> 00:23:42,400
be thinking about in the other,
the other piece that you always
365
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,700
have to be thinking about.
And you mentioned this, a little
366
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bit ago, is disruption.
Where's the disruption coming
367
00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:52,900
from?
I think, I think technology
368
00:23:52,900 --> 00:23:57,600
leaders are in a very unique
position in most organizations.
369
00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:02,800
And that is we see across the
organization and we touch the
370
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:07,100
entire organization and
Therefore I think we've got this
371
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:09,900
better view on.
Where is a disrupt?
372
00:24:09,900 --> 00:24:12,700
Where is it?
Disruption going to come from
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and if we can keep our eye on
where that is, maybe we become
374
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the disrupt or instead of the
disrupted to your point earlier.
375
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So those are the things that I
think aspiring cios and ctOS
376
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,200
need to be focused on.
Yes, you need that technology
377
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:30,900
Foundation.
Absolutely.
378
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,300
But you really need to be
working on those types of
379
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,200
Essential skills.
Yeah, I will add one thing Jeff
380
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:44,300
and this is also I learned that
by my Consulting career actually
381
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:47,200
I didn't have the time to learn
it when I was on the other side
382
00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:51,500
as it's very important that
technologists and you know,
383
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:56,100
anyone in technology understand
even if you are in a beginner or
384
00:24:56,100 --> 00:24:59,700
like, you're still on the bottom
side of the ladder, try to
385
00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:02,700
understand, you know, the
business outcomes of any
386
00:25:02,700 --> 00:25:07,100
technology and because this is I
think because I was also on the
387
00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:12,900
other side as a vendor and this
was part of my job to educate my
388
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:16,100
customers.
What are you getting by doing
389
00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:19,000
this technology?
And what I used to advise them?
390
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,500
Don't look at me as a vendor.
Look at what you are doing as an
391
00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:26,000
initiative and see what this
initiative is affecting your
392
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,800
business.
And of course there are like,
393
00:25:28,100 --> 00:25:29,900
kind of basic things.
Is it?
394
00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:32,000
Increasing your Revenue,
increasing?
395
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,900
Your customer base.
Is it like reducing some Costs
396
00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:40,000
or time to do things and of
course number one, it's
397
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:41,600
increasing customer
satisfaction.
398
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,000
So yes, yeah, it was really nice
point from your side.
399
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:48,300
Now the final question I want to
ask you Jeff.
400
00:25:49,100 --> 00:25:51,900
I know that you have been
featured in various
401
00:25:51,900 --> 00:25:55,700
Publications, including force
and The Huffington Post.
402
00:25:55,700 --> 00:25:58,600
Can you touch give us some
insights or perspective about
403
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,500
what you have shared in these
Publications and maybe get some
404
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,900
like insights of invaluable?
Points to the industry
405
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,300
technology industry.
Yeah.
406
00:26:10,300 --> 00:26:16,800
I you know it covers a wide
variety of topics always with
407
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:22,400
the the technology lens.
But from a leadership
408
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:33,200
perspective, is 011 that I wrote
for Forbes last fall is about
409
00:26:33,300 --> 00:26:38,800
managing through.
Economic instability, right?
410
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:44,200
The, the economy is kind of on
Shaky Ground across the globe
411
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:49,200
certainly.
And so, how do you as the as the
412
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,800
technology leader?
How do you lead through that?
413
00:26:52,300 --> 00:26:58,400
And so, there was a couple of
key points in there about it
414
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:04,500
starts before, the economic
downturn, which is you always
415
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:07,800
are as your Boeing as your
organization is growing as your
416
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,600
company is growing.
I think in the back of your mind
417
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,600
you always have to have that
message playing what happens
418
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,200
when what happens when there's
an economic downturn.
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00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:23,400
How do I, how do I disassemble
everything that we built right?
420
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:25,800
And I think that's one of the
cool things that cloud has
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00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,500
brought us.
It gives us not only the ability
422
00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:33,000
to scale up, but it gives us a
certain latitude to scale down.
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00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,100
Should we need to write?
So there's some technology
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00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:41,000
advances that help with that,
but it's also in leading your
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00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,900
organization.
And how do you lead your
426
00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:46,000
organization through those
downturns?
427
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,600
And I'm a, I'm a big proponent
you and I have both spent time
428
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,400
on the on the vendor service
provider side of the desk.
429
00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:57,700
I'm a big proponent in
partnering with your service
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00:27:57,700 --> 00:28:00,400
providers, right?
And so I'm actually working on a
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00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,900
post right now about just that.
How do you how do you Warm those
432
00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:08,600
Partnerships.
First of all, true Partnerships,
433
00:28:09,100 --> 00:28:12,800
not just, you know, the sales
rep that comes into your office
434
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:14,400
and says, hey, I want to be a
partner.
435
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:20,700
No, you want to sell me
something right, a true partner
436
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,000
one that's based on trust
transparency and respect.
437
00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:29,500
Mutual trust transparency
respect because when you're in a
438
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:33,900
downturn being able to turn to
your partners and say I need
439
00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:38,100
help not Just maybe people help,
but I need help with ideas.
440
00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:40,700
About how do we, how do we do
more with less?
441
00:28:40,700 --> 00:28:42,800
How do we get things?
How do we continue to move
442
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,200
forward?
Even though we're in this this
443
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,500
situation and it's amazing what
your partner's can bring to the
444
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:52,200
table, right?
So I mean that's a that's a post
445
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:57,100
that's going to be coming out.
Oh probably yet in April depends
446
00:28:57,100 --> 00:29:02,100
on depends on my writing time.
That's cool, that's cool.
447
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:05,300
Anyway what I will be doing is I
will be sharing the link.
448
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,300
Website Jeff.
So if anyone's on to, I know
449
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:11,800
that you post that as well and
if they want to also have a look
450
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,900
and maybe if they are interested
in, you read two books, any plan
451
00:29:15,900 --> 00:29:20,400
for a third book, just before we
close, I've got a couple that
452
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,600
are rolling around in my head
that I've not.
453
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,900
I've kind of started and stopped
started and stopped.
454
00:29:28,500 --> 00:29:33,500
My goal is to have the third one
done, hopefully by the end of
455
00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:34,700
the year.
Cool.
456
00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:38,900
We'll see again that writing
time, that Focus time to write
457
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,600
is is a challenge sometimes but
that's that's the next one.
458
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,800
So okay.
We will be waiting for that.
459
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,000
Yeah.
Well Jeff that please and I
460
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,800
would say I have listened to
your show since we were
461
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,700
introduced and I love what
you're doing and so thank you.
462
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,600
Anything I can do to help
promote your show.
463
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,600
I am happy to do that because I
think the conversations you are
464
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,600
having our valuable.
So thank you for bringing Back
465
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:06,900
to the world.
I appreciate it.
466
00:30:06,908 --> 00:30:09,700
Thank you very much, Jeff.
I really appreciate this and I
467
00:30:09,700 --> 00:30:14,800
thank you very much for.
I think it's early morning for
468
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:20,900
you know, not very early.
Okay, that's my got my coffee,
469
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,100
that's good.
Anyway, thank you very much for
470
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:30,600
being on the show and by this we
will be concluding as usual and
471
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:34,800
this is for my audience.
If you have any feedback any
472
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,100
question, Regarding this episode
or regarding the show in
473
00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:41,100
general, don't hesitate to get
back to me.
474
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:45,400
Either by email or you can
contact me over LinkedIn or
475
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,800
Twitter, I would be more than
happy to answer you, and if you
476
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,500
even are interested to join me
on the show and be a guest, I
477
00:30:53,508 --> 00:30:56,100
would be more than happy also to
discuss that with you
478
00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:58,700
one-on-one.
And last thing, don't forget to
479
00:30:58,700 --> 00:31:02,300
subscribe, if you are watching
this on YouTube to the channel
480
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,400
or if you are listening over
your favorite podcast, The
481
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,100
platform also please don't
forget to subscribe.
482
00:31:08,100 --> 00:31:10,100
Thank you very much.
And until we meet in the next
483
00:31:10,100 --> 00:31:10,600
episode.
