#576 The Infrastructure Behind Tokenization: GP Worrell on Scaling Real-World Assets

Mehmet: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO Show with Mead today. I'm very pleased. Joining me, GP Worrell. He's the co-founder and CPO at Blubird. Um. Of course, my audience knows that I don't like to steal a lot of the show from from my guests. But today we're gonna talk about Web3. We're gonna talk about tokenization, and we're gonna talk about what GP and the team are doing at Blubird.

Without further ado, gp, thank you very much for being here with me today. Again, I gonna, you know, pass it to you. Tell us more about you, your background, your journey, and then we can. Deep dive immediately after this. So the floor is yours. 

GP: Sure, sure. So I guess I'll, I'll start with, uh, with myself and then we'll jump over to, to Blubird itself.

Mehmet: Sure. 

GP: Um, you know, I've been in the space for, since 2016. Um, uh, my background is, um, traditional trad fi. I've worked for Fortune fifties, one hundreds, five hundreds across the board over. Period of [00:01:00] around two and a half decades. Uh, I've been specifically in the blockchain, um, space, uh, since 2016. And, um, met my co-founder Corey, uh, on actually our first project in the space and have had.

Um, a relationship, um, ever since. And we started Blubird about four years ago. Um, and at Blubird we focus on the infrastructure of, um, instructional layer of tokenization. So not just issuing, um, tokens, but building the systems that led RWAs, for example, operated at institutional scale. So think compliance, governance, investor onboarding, reporting, lifecycle management, basically building the rails, um, that the market runs on.

Mehmet: Great. And this is, you know, um, uh, kind of a first question to me. While a lot of people, they focus on the tokens at the asset level, you are, as you said, you focus on the [00:02:00] infrastructure. Like what's the opportunity there? Like why you felt that there's a, a need to have a game changing, uh, product for this space?

GP: So again, I mean, yeah, that's a good point to, to bring up. Um, we, we focus less on the, the assets themselves, although we do have some pieces that address that. Um, infrastructure's really kind of where, where we believe that. The market opportunity is, so it's the, the future of ROB products really is, isn't in, in, in, in customization bespoke tokens.

It's, it's in a modular system. So, um, you think about it the way fin, the same way FinTech moves, um, from building banks to kind of assembling APIs, right? Like it, it's. It's plug and play components. It's reusable across multiple asset classes. Um, you know, you've got, you know, you're solving for deployment and, and low and regulatory risk.

So, um, it we're really more about moving [00:03:00] kind of like from this artisanal kind of tokenization to, um, industrial systems. That's where we see it right now. Um, and, and so that's where our focus is. 

Mehmet: Great. Now, as usual, because I'm not expert in this domain gp, honestly, and I, of course I have some knowledge.

I'm not saying I'm totally ignorant, but I try to get some similarities for my audience so they can understand, you know, some of the, I would rationale for the reason, you know. To do what you're doing. So I know like you've worked in web two, Web3 UX and enterprise systems, and you mentioned this in in your introduction now, what is the main thing you see founders repeating when building real world assets platforms usually today?

GP: So it's, it, there's some things that are in, in common, obviously. Um, there are, um, you know, everybody's trying to. [00:04:00] Recreate and having to be very hands on. Um, so think, um, they're spending up their own token contracts. Right? That's a great one. Um, think about, um, you know, that that's a highly, highly repeatable piece of it, uh, for for sure.

Um, then you have other pieces that are, it, it probably steps more into, not necessarily repeatable, but things that. Um, you know, potentially, uh, are related to like de-risking, right? Like so, um, ensuring that your regulatory framework is correct, um, ensuring that your KYC and your am ML is correct. So really it's more about the facilitation of the piece and less about like the repeat repeatable pieces.

The repeatable pieces are kind of like the, the. The standard go-tos, like again, tokenizing the, the, the creating the contracts themselves, um, the, the chains that they're choosing. Like we, we saw, you know, we saw for a couple different problems related to that. But you know, really the, the tokenization itself is the most repeatable and [00:05:00] where it falls short is on the execution, if that may, if that makes sense.

Mehmet: Yeah. Can I think about the gp similar to when I have this, uh. Frameworks, for example, in, in, you know, in the web development world, like, it's like we have like some frameworks, we have like the authentication, which is like, you don't have to rebuild it from scratch. And then you have of course, like your hardening for your database that you don't have to reinvent every time.

So can I think about it in the same way here, 

GP: right? So, right. Again, we go back to the word modularity, right? Everything's built from a modular component. And assembled into a single platform. Those are the types of platforms that don't exist. And that, and that, and that's the opportunity that was seen in the, in the, in the area, um, that we felt that we could capitalize on.

Mehmet: Right. So. Moving forward, you, you promote that, you know, every single RWA or like, uh, real world asset [00:06:00] tokenization product would be just a building blocks or modular building kind of, right? Um, 

GP: sure. Each one has their own variation. E each one has their own variation, right? So when we're talking RWAs specifically, like where we're headed right now, when you start thinking about.

About the RWAs themselves. Um, you have, and I'll just throw out some examples you have. 

Mehmet: Sure. 

GP: Um, you have precious metals, um, you have real estate, um, you've got fractional ownership. Um, then you've got extended out to like really crazy things like the, uh, an RWA asset of tokenization four. Um. Blocks of a coral reef.

Like those are real things, they're real scenarios and they do exist and they are clients of ours. But, um, each one is different and has it therefore has its own, it shares about 80% of the same platform and then it has a bespoke, um, nature to it based off of [00:07:00] that. Um, and, and, and so when you look at it, you know, the, the, the interesting thing is that, is that they all mature in the same way, right?

Um. And they all have people building things from scratch, but the infrastructure is where you start to see the weakness and where it needs to kind of emerge. And, um, that's where, that's where the platforms become really important. Um, for sure. 

Mehmet: Yeah. Um, so when we think about building, uh, like, you know, building blocks, you know?

Mm-hmm. And, um. Having, you know, the, the, you know, the, the focus will become on, uh, what's defensible, right? So when I think about it this way, so in your opinion, like what's the commodity and what's still defensible in this, in this situation? 

GP: What's defensible? I mean, it, I mean, the whole entire platform becomes defensible, right?

Like it allows the assets to become defensible. Um, and, and each [00:08:00] one is, is, is, is kind of unique, but you, the, you, you look at it and you've got, for us, the infrastructure creates a transactional layer. And the transactional layer is really kind of the, becomes the defensible piece. 

Mehmet: Right. And you know, when, um, we talk about, you know, I'm sometime following what other people are doing in this space, and I see, um, like the time to market matters a lot.

So how much, how much advantage, uh, do modular platform really give versus like customer bills? Oh, 

GP: that's a good one. That's a good one. So when you back into the way most people. Are doing tokenization. Those are pretty long tail. They require, um, a lot. If, if you're, if I'm speaking from like worst case scenario Sure.

If they're you, if, if they have to create their own contracts with the development team, if they've got stand up their own, um, registry or marketplace portals, like things like that, things that, that we're talking about [00:09:00] scaling down from. You know, what normally takes months to do? Um, to, to, to, to weeks or less than a week, right?

So the, for us, for example, we already support. Many, many, many, many chains. We're chain agnostic actually. So we remove that piece. Right? Chain agnostic and audit ready. Um, so that, uh, solves for, um, the, the tokenization contracts themselves, right? Um, everything that we have is, is. Because of the way our smart contracts are audited, um, companies don't have to, um, have their own contracts audited because we've already got the audited, the engines contracts already audited.

So we're talking about some extremely key, uh, extremely key pieces. Like you can even, I mean, you can go deeper than that. You can go the KYC and the am ML. Already baked in. Like if someone had to build that and put that together themselves, you are talking in a very long [00:10:00] duration of time where, where it's baked into our system.

And that's kind of how we looked at it to begin with. So ab, so the, one of the biggest pieces of the platform is, is time, time and scale. 

Mehmet: Now let me ask you the question from maybe the regulator's point of view. Uh, gp, of course. Uh. For them. What does trustworthy infrastructure really mean when we talk about tokenized assets?

GP: Sure. So for us, when it comes down to it, you've got the piece that is related to the transaction itself. Which is peer to peer. So, uh, and then you've got the regulatory or the, you know, kind of the de-risking piece, which, um, is inherently built in, uh, as the same as well. So the, the trust lies in two, in two layers.

One, um, the trust that the, the asset is going to move the way that it, that it needs [00:11:00] to. And secondarily that it has the backing of, uh, the framework around it from can it and should it, um, be moved, um, at a, at a, um, risk D level, uh, de-risking level. 

Mehmet: Got you. Um, and what do you think, you know, like this also means for the.

Mainstream audience trust in these assets. Also, gp, because, you know, I know it's not a technical question, but, um, you know, like, what, what, what, um. How for me, like let's say an investor or like maybe someone who followed this space, like how this might increase my appetite to go and invest in these assets actually, or like deal with them.

Although I know like some governments globally, like for example, I'm Dubai. I know they are pushing very hard on, you know, tokenization. They start to do it for real estate and [00:12:00] other things. So this gave like people like some confidence, right? 

GP: Or DECA and all of that are regulated that very familiar with what you're talking about.

Uh, yeah. 

Mehmet: Yeah. So, but um, again, I'm trying to, to to relate little bit, you know, having a solid platform, a trust towards the infrastructure, you know, tied with what regulators usually want to, to see, and then how this will affect, you know, the behavior of the, you know, general audience, I would say. 

GP: Sure, sure.

So. If we go back again to the core premise, we're, we're the system layer. Mm-hmm. So we sit between issuers, investors, regulators, and blockchains. And we manage the onboarding and the compliance and the registry piece, the distributions, reporting, things like that. Um, and governance in the unified stack. Uh, and so that lets partners focus on the assets while we handle the, handle the [00:13:00] infrastructure.

So that's really, I just want to go back to that because that's really the premise of what we're talking about is sitting at a, a system layer and that inherently comes with. Other pieces of, of, of knowledge or, or access Now and, and, and honestly, we're you, you keyed on something about investors and although we do, you know, we do work with investors of all scale, but primarily what we are, where we are tilted right now is really at that governmental level or at that commodity level, which is a different base of type of user, um, which have, can completely.

Potentially different rules, um, and regulations. And so, you know, with our focus, it, it's really oriented towards, towards that side of the industry, um, at, at this point, uh, as well. So, 

Mehmet: right. Do, do you see that also a way, gp, so with what you're doing at [00:14:00] Blubird for probably entrepreneurs, founders in this space who think like, yeah, I need a big team.

You know, I, you know. They start to try to raise money maybe to, to get there know, is this also a way to encourage like more projects in this space? Do you see it a one use case also, um, in, in, uh, in the tokenization, uh, vertical? Sure. 

GP: I mean, absolutely. I mean, so we have, um, and it's interesting you should ask that.

We have the, the RWA registry and marketplace, and we also have a foundational set of core products that's geared towards. Exactly what you're talking about. So think about tokenizing, um, the equity within your, your company and thinking about pushing that equity out to, um, raise capital and raise funds.

It's the same method. It is just a different, it's just different scale and it's a different, um, different approach. It's an it's, it is an approach allowing founders to actually [00:15:00] raise funds for their company as opposed to. Uh, an RWA layer that sits into, well, we are transacting assets, digital assets, um, for payment.

So 

Mehmet: yeah, 

GP: we actually do sit on both sides and do see both sides 

Mehmet: right now. I know like you're trying also to. To strengthen this as you, you, we've discussed so far, the, the infrastructure, and this is where, you know, probably projects might fail, I would say, because they don't have the base and, you know, you, you kept repeating, you know, A-M-L-K-Y-C and these kinds of stuff, which is, uh.

For, for people who are not familiar, like anti-money laundering and know your customer, which was very important when it comes to coming to a related space, especially it's related somehow to FinTech now. But do you think like this is, having the good infrastructure is enough [00:16:00] to have a successful project when it comes to real world, uh, assets token organization or from a and I'm asking you this from a.

Maybe product person, perspective, gp, vp. Sure. Where do you see, you know, people also fail and where they, they might need also to, I would say, put their focus on, is it like on partnerships? Is it on go to market and why? 

GP: Good question. You know, it's, it's, I think a lot of people fall in the pitfalls of, um, if they build it, you know, they will come kind of theory.

Yeah. And so, you know, the RWA and the infrastructure is only one piece. I mean, you really have to, just from a a, a business perspective and a product perspective, you still have to manage your pipelines. You still have to grind and get it done. Like you still have to have sales channels and vehicles. You still have to have market fit.

So if you don't have market fit, for example, you can tokenize anything you want to, but there'll be no market to support it. That's [00:17:00] where the most of the failure points are. The failure points are, you know, the infrastructure helps support that. So it all offsets cost, it, it offsets time to market. Um, it scales, um, and can handle the actual functionality piece, which is where we like to sit.

Um, but what you're talking about is a much greater scale of. Everything from, you know, do you have the right human capital down to do you have the right plan? Um, and that's where most of them fail. Uh, and it doesn't matter whether they've ra, whether they've raised capital or not. Um, I've seen both sides.

Uh, and that's really where, that's a, that's where it comes down to, you know, infrastructure's, just the vehicle to help solve for a particular part. Yeah. 

Mehmet: So that means, doesn't matter, like what kind of, um, blockchain they're running on. Is it Ethereum? Is it like, I don't know, like any kind of thing. So the, the worry of what kind of, uh, infrastructure should not be [00:18:00] showstopper, I would say.

Am I, am I thinking the right way? 

GP: Yeah, I, well, in, in an ideal world, yes. Now, if people try and build for, you know, you know, the theory of RWAs being built from scratch is, I think rapidly declining. Um. And it's why they won't be built from scratch. At some point they won't be because they don't scale, they're not compliant, they don't survive regulation.

Um, but again, that's just one piece. The but you're correct in saying that. Yeah. I mean, absolutely. It, there are other things outside of it. You can have the best infrastructure, you want the best product underlying your project. It's the other pieces that become really important. Um, and what we're seeing is making sure that the market fit is there and also that.

You know, a lot of, a lot of them is ensuring that they have a base of a base of buyer too. So like there, there's, it is a whole sl, a whole slew of things that that could happen. 

Mehmet: Right now, I can't have an episode nowadays without, you know, [00:19:00] asking about ai. Now I'm not sure like, what's the AI play here in this vp?

Tell me. 

GP: Sure. So the AI there is, and this is just, again, this is just from my perspective. There's a lot of opportunity to supplement, um, platforms with proper ai a, a proper agent models now, and that just doesn't mean go tack on a chat bot or go, you know, or use the AI for the sake of using ai. But where it becomes valuable is when you have a platform that already has the infrastructure.

But you have a base of users that don't understand necessarily the platform, or not necessarily the platform, but their jurisdiction, their re regulatory frameworks they need to be in. Um, the agents can help support a lot of that. And that's what, um, that's, that's just my thought. That's, that's what, what I'm [00:20:00] thinking about.

Like, I think about an execution. Uh, whether that's standing up, um, the proper ROA structure, whether that's standing up the proper, um, uh, corporate structure, uh, whether that's, um, actually choosing, let's say a deployment type based off of your investors, a lot of that can be supplemented by, um. A, a, a ai, an AI agent model to kind of help, at least that's my thought on, on it.

I, I, again, I I always try and bring it back to the work product. The work product is the, is the infrastructure and there are a whole series of challenges for people just trying to get that accomplished. Even if you have a system that is invisible on tech and easy to use, it, it, there's still, that's where I see the benefit is in, um, not necessarily replacement of anything but supplemental to the overall infrastructure.

Mehmet: Great. Yeah, of course. I, I think, you know, plenty of additional [00:21:00] use case will unfold with, uh, you know, the, the, the rise of agentic AI also as well and everything which is happening currently. Um, sure. 

GP: And that's a great que great question. I love those questions like ai, the crossover between a AI and the infrastructure and blockchain space and stuff.

Like, it's extremely intriguing, right? And I can tell you we've worked, been working and are working on a lot of conceptual prototypes that are very much oriented to that space. Um, but again, it's leveraging the models based off of a business use case. And not for the sake of just saying that it's in there.

Mehmet: Right. Yeah, I have, 

GP: and that's how everything was built. That's how everything was built for us. It's always been around a business use case. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. Now I have a, a special, I would say, empathy with, with product people like yourself at gp. [00:22:00] Um, uh, but I, I, I ask more CTOs and actually, you know, CEOs in that space more than product people in, in the Web3 play, uh, space.

How the function is different and you know, if, feel free to tell me like, you know, within your current role at Blubird, like what things as product, um, chief of product you do at a Web3, especially like one to hero talking also about organization rather than a traditional web two application, even like a web two FinTech application.

GP: Sure. You know. So there's some differences and there's some similar similarities, right? So, like I said, I've been in the space, overall space of product for two and a half decades. Um, there are, there are some very universal things that, that cross over, right? Mm-hmm. Like the, in C-P-O-C-P-O roles are very similar to the, the other executive roles, if [00:23:00] not a lot of crossover.

So, to give you an idea in, in my role, I mean, I, I'm. Everything, including the, including the trash man. Right. So I'm, I'm working on product, I'm working on deep level, uh, product con, con concepts, uh, operational pieces, founders meetings, um, pitch, I mean, I, you name it, it, it does fall into the product owner's realm because the product owner is the key piece to sitting between all of the layers and ensuring that it meets the business requirements.

That it has proper funding. That has a proper team in place, that has a proper product plan in place. I mean, my day covers literally all of those things from, uh, from the CPO. And then you tack on the fact that, uh, you know, I was one of the co-founders alongside Corey. Um, there's a lot of overlap between he and I.

He's a CEO, I'm the CPO. There's, and even the, even our CTO, Matt, there's a lot of, we all wear a lot of, um, hats that [00:24:00] crossover. Um, but we all carry, carry, carry the weight, um, uh, uh, in some, in, in different areas. But I mean, that, that's kind of a kind of a loaded question depending on the project. Right. Uh, also, 

Mehmet: yes, 

GP: like depending on early stage where they are, you know, of course they're gonna be like, well, I do everything.

But in a, in a, in a lean system, in a lean machine, you know, well-funded, uh, project, the CPO literally. It, it sits in that layer of operations, um, somewhere between operations strategy and actual product implementation. And that's, 

Mehmet: yeah. And go to market also as well. 

GP: Oh yeah. Go to market. I, yes. Can't forget that.

You can't forget sales and marketing. 

Mehmet: Yeah. You know, and I feel like you're lucky, GP, because you, I think you have the chance to sit down with a lot of founders in this space, so. You know, like, do you usually, like, see nowadays like really cool ideas coming up for, uh, new kind of tokenization projects these days?

GP: That's a good [00:25:00] question. Like I can tell you right now, I see a lot of 80% of the same thing right now. You know, everybody, everybody's after these grabs, right? Everybody's like, oh, real estate, real estate, real estate, right? 

Mehmet: Yes. 

GP: But yeah, we do, because we're, we're talking right now and, and working on a project that, like I said, is related to.

Tokenizing square meters of coral reefs. And because, because that, that's something that an organization wants to do. We're seeing, um, uh, we've seen some wild like tokenization of like one-off. Pieces of jewelry that are fractionalized, right? Like, you know, it, we are seeing some, some interesting things.

But I will tell you, for the most part, it's, there's a, there's kind of like what I would call the space race, you know, kind of thought, you know, uh, for standardization of most tokens, I mean of most things, most assets such as, like I said, real estate, metals, Pete, things like that. 

Mehmet: Yeah. These are the. [00:26:00] Main two ones I hear a lot about, especially in this part of the world where I am like, real estate is big, very, very big.

It's, yeah. And the other one is, yeah, of course precious metals like gold, silver, all these kinds of things. Five 

GP: commodities, uh, things like that. The, the, the reality is, is that you're going to have a few infrastructures that remain over the test of time and the others will all fall away. Um, 'cause they're missing one key piece or another.

Mehmet: Do you think? Yeah. Do you think gp like also we were finally able, at least to remove some of the bad things that happened I think between 20 17, 20 18 when all these, you know, crazy kind of projects were coming and tokenized everything and create token for crazy stuff that 

GP: Sure. 

Mehmet: You know, and the people were trying to do like what used to call like initial coin offerings, ICOs.

Are we crossed this phase or do you still think there are some [00:27:00] people stuck in these moments and still they look skeptical? Um, to the industry in general? 

GP: I think that we're somewhere where we're in the middle. Um, I think that. People are still gonna tokenize their businesses. They're still gonna have these potential kind of ICO related stuff.

That's a kind of a antiquated term, but, you know, um, they're still gonna have tokenization offerings. Um, it's just gonna maybe be fundamentally a little bit different. Um, and when it, you know, and at the same time you do have a lot of the kind of noise kind of falling away, which the market's showing you that right now.

And the, so you've got, got these particular key pieces that, um, at the end of the day, um, you know, there, I think there'll always be some skepticism. I, I don't think we're out of, even remotely out of that yet. There's always, there, there's still adoption issues, there's still market fit issues. Um, you know, it, it's just [00:28:00] what you're touching on was a little bit wild west, a little bit of cash, grab a little bit of opportunity.

I don't know if there's opportunities there anymore. Um, and I think that's why people have to, if, if you follow on that thread, it's why they're having a lot of the, the, the, the, the early NFTs or RWAs, whatever you wanna call 'em, um, um, 'cause they're not real world assets. Um, but, but, and that's, that's the other difference, right?

Like, uh. You, you've got something that's this, that, that is just, they're, they're completely different related. They're, they're not backed by, um, hard assets or anything like that. I think you're gonna have your skepticism, uh, there, um, across the board for, for, for a while. But I do think that the trend is cooled off, um, specifically for what you're referring to, which was, um, a a lot of different, um.

They, they had no val, no, no, no real, no real value related to, [00:29:00] let's just say, uh, where the space is headed with actual RWAs. Right. It's real, it's, it's really hard to, to not be skeptical about a a a a meme or, or A NFT. Yes. When you can also look at an RWA and say, okay, it's backed by this gold mine in this region of the world.

And here is the invoice takeoff of that, or here's the actual digital twin of the actual asset itself. They're vastly different things. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. And but, but the good thing which is happening, um, now is I think we have more great thought leaders in this space. I, I, at least I can talk about the region where, where I am, where they really try to, instead of pushing the technology for.

The sake just of pushing the technology. They try to exactly explain the use case. You know, why actually we need this, right? So why we need to tokenize this, like what's the benefit? What is it for me as end user or investor or, you know, maybe even a [00:30:00] partner. So I think like market started to, to to mature, I would say.

And maybe, yeah, you're right. Like we're still in the middle of, of that phase going out from there. 

GP: We definitely have a ways to go. The market is maturing. It's not mature. 

Mehmet: I mean that it's maturing. It's maturing. That's 

GP: really what it, what it comes down to, you know, because it, I bet it just isn't, 

Mehmet: but, but, you know, GPI and I argue with people sometimes is I tell them like, look, it's, it's not only regarding the Web3 or like, you know, the blockchain and the things, because you know, when, when the internet came up, let's think about Web 1.00 gosh.

Yeah, it wasn't mature, right? Like we didn't reach to where we have, it took us like 30 years. Right. So, um, oh yeah. And sometimes we need to give time. 

GP: That is true. My first job ever was web one work at a newspaper, helping get their.com off the ground. And that was in 19, 19 95. 

Mehmet: Oh, wow. [00:31:00] 

GP: And so I've seen the, like I've seen the, the scale, um, of what you're talking about and there's was s skepticism there.

And if you follow the thread and start to start to pull on the thread a little bit, it was the defining point, um, for a lot that happened after that. But yeah, sure. Same theories, skepticism. Yeah. I think early. I think 

Mehmet: same thing is happening now in front of our eyes with the, with the ai, like, you know, oh 

GP: yeah.

Mehmet: Yeah, people like still, I think they're not understanding what's happening and they're just, you know, throwing theories here and there and they're trying to say, oh, like this is will fail. It's okay. Fad, uh oh, it's gonna do this, gonna do that. And you know, funny, you know, how this is affecting even the stock market, like, you know, and 

GP: sure 

Mehmet: people think that software is dead and, you know, and, and I think like these kinds of big, they, they cause this right.

GP: It's saturated. I'm not gonna say it's not saturated. I mean, if you wanna take the AI model, let's, let's pick on that [00:32:00] for a minute. With, um, all the financial applications that you can go get from the app store that say, oh, with $20, or with this, we're gonna turn $20 into, you know, 200,000, or we're gonna, you know.

Yeah. You know, and it's blind faith of the general population being hooked into a good mouse trap with a good narrative. To actually actually create income and it's not for them. Right? So that's, that's not, so that's where AI, in my opinion, is being, um, we'll just say being kind of, um, I'm trying to think about the right word for it without saying anything rude.

Um, kind of, it's, it's being, um. It is just, it's just smoke and mirrors a little bit. Um, and I'm not saying, I'm not saying that those things aren't true and real and they don't happen and they don't work. Um, it's just, it's where you get some of that skepticism of AI versus, and the general [00:33:00] population versus someone that is educated in it and says, okay.

I don't need an application to do that. For example, I'm gonna go, I will find my own agent to do what I need to do. And that's the, that's the real beauty of AI is when you put it in the AI and when you put it in the position, when you put people in the position of actually understanding the use versus where it's kind of trending.

Right now you use the word trend. 

Mehmet: Yep. I don't, yeah, it's a trend. Like I try to find another word, but I cannot, like, it's a, it is a trend. 

GP: Yeah. I mean, I mean, AI plans your trips. It feeds your dog. I mean, it, it, it makes you money. I mean,

oh, by the way, it doesn't 24 7. It is just 

Mehmet: Oh, oh, yeah. 

GP: Oh yeah. I can go, I can go down the rabbit hole about that, about conversations around that. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. Now, GP, if. We, if we want to go back to, you know, the tokenization and real world asset and, and, and [00:34:00] infrastructure. And if you want to think about. A breakthrough, a, I don't know if I might, uh, use the right word.

Like everyone, because we talk about ai, they, they talk about the chat GPT moment, right? So what would be such a moment in, in. Maybe I cannot say one year, two years, I'm, I don't know what's what, how, how the pace would be. But what would be the breakthrough in infrastructure? Would it be like in the custody?

Would it be in the identity? Would it be in the data itself or maybe somewhere else? Where, where do you expect like the biggest breakthrough to happen? 

GP: I think that occurs where today's market isn't about. Um. About token hype. It's, it's about operational trust. Um, and that's where I think infrastructure wins and that's where we're placed and that's where I think the moment kind of is, right?

So, um, when all the [00:35:00] current demand signals are kind of met, um, that's, that's kind of, uh, what, what we're keying in on, right? So. At the point when, you know, infrastructures, uh, institutions want, want infrastructure and compliant products, issuers that want the lifecycle tooling of the entire piece.

Regulators are, you know, are their expected audit trails are met, um, and you have a, a modular, um, uh, and reusable infrastructure for development teams. Um, that's when you'll see it. And that's all related to operational trust because if you meet those key four signals, then you have. Um, you've kind of achieved that and that's, that's my thought on it.

Mehmet: Great. Um, finally, JP and, you know, was great discussion with you today where people can get in touch and find out more. 

GP: Sure. They can go to get Blubird.com. Blubird spelled B-L-U-B-I-R-D. It's no e in it. Um, that's a great place. Um, they can, they [00:36:00] can reach out to me on LinkedIn directly. Um, there's, those are really the main vehicles, um, for us.

I mean, we're accessible. I'm, we're all extremely accessible. We're, we're, we're available. We are glad to, um, have conversations, uh, across the board. Uh, you know, we kind of take an education first kind of approach. That is one piece of the RW space space that very much suffers is you, is, is not, that's the knowledge of that.

So we're glad to, you know, glad to talk. Um, and again, we can be reached to either one of those places, um, uh, uh, or even to even, even our ex. Um, I'm like, we're all, someone is always monitor monitoring and managing and managing those, and then we can go from there. So that's the bet. That's the easiest way to get to us.

Mehmet: Great. And for the audience, I gonna put the links in the show notes so you can reach out easily either to GP or to uh, Blubird team directly. Uh, JP [00:37:00] thank you very, very much for this great conversation today. I learned a lot also as well, and this is why I love to do this podcast. 'cause it's not like only just, you know, two random dudes talking to each other.

It's like more about, uh. You know, spreading knowledge and spreading, you know, what, what really matters. So thank you very much for being one of my guests, and that's usually how I add my episode. This is for the audience is you, if you guys just discovered us by luck. Thank you for passing by. Um, you know, I hope you enjoyed it.

If you did, so, give me a small favor, subscribe and share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you are one of the people who keeps coming again and again, the loyal fan, thank you very much. Thank you for pushing us. You know, on the Apple Podcast charts in multiple countries. You know, we keep changing spaces.

We are in a country or two every week. So thank you very much for this. We can't do this without you. And at the end as I stay, always stay tuned for any episode very soon. Thank you. Bye-bye. 

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