March 9, 2023
#57 Fireside Chat with Jakub Dziwisz CEO of Orbify on satellite image tech and entrepreneurship
In this episode, we sit down with Jakub Dziwisz, CEO of Orbify, to discuss his journey from a technical role to becoming the CEO of a company that specializes in satellite imaging technology for environmental monitoring. We explore how Orbify's technology is used in various environmental monitoring use cases, and how it helps businesses and individuals present data in a usable format. Jakub shares valuable insights on entrepreneurship and what it takes to succeed as a leader in the tech industry.
https://orbify.com/
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Hello, and welcome to the City
Hall, Show with mammoths.
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I'm your host Muhammad.
And in each episode, I'm
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exploring the latest trends,
insights and strategies, in
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topics, like cybersecurity
digital transformation, emerging
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technology, startups, and
Entrepreneurship, from thought,
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leaders, and innovators,
entrepreneurs.
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And Founders, we will hear from
experts across with a wide range
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of Industries who are driving
change and making an impact in
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the world of tech and business.
Thank you for tuning in today.
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And let's get started today.
I have with me, Jacob, who's
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joining me from Poland?
Jacob is the CEO of old B5,
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which is a, I will let you Jacob
explain that to the audience
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because you will do it the best
way.
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Thank you for being on the show
today.
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And please can you introduce
yourself and your company.
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Sure have.
Thanks a lot.
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Michael meant for having me
here.
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It's a big player.
Hello, everyone.
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My name is Jakob gibberish, and
I'm the CEO of or B5.
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Our company is building a
platform that transforms
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geospatial data and satellite
imagery into fully functional
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web applications, interactive
dashboards and reliable apis.
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And if You're wondering why
right?
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What's interesting in it
recently we started focusing a
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lot on the nature based
Solutions and and Forest
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vertical especially because this
is a super important area
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important for the entire planet.
If you think about all the
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people all over the world tried
that are taking care of the
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forests.
There are two main reasons why
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they do this.
Some of them, they care that.
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They look after Forest, they
plan for us just for present for
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now.
Right to have Timber that they
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used to heat their homes to have
Timber, that can be used to
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build furniture or other houses,
or to produce pile palm oil and
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other types of food.
So, this is one group, the other
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group is people, planting taking
care of forest for the future,
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for the future generations, to
make sure that our a planet
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stays, as beautiful as green as
it is right now and this is no
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less important goal.
Both these types of people need
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to understand what is the
conditions?
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What is the conditions of their
reserves?
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Plantations, and this is where
Earth observation comes into
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place by using satellites and I
don't know if you know, but
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there is some over 1,000
satellites, orbiting, the Earth
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collecting terabytes of data,
every minute by using Could data
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coming from this satellite so we
can provide people who want to
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plant grow healthy, forest with
actual up-to-date information
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about factors like Forest Crown
cover.
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So, what percentage of the area
is covered with crowns and is it
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increasing his decreasing?
Is there some unwanted
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deforestation taking place?
Let's imagine that.
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Muhammad you are working for a
forest Department.
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In Lebanon.
Right.
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So we are we are talking to to
smart people from Lebanon that
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are referencing their, their
country, and they need to
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understand.
Okay, is there some illegal
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logging taking place?
It's our Plantation growing
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Health.
The other question you may be
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asking yourself is what is the
health of my Forest?
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Is there some pests attacking
the trees?
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Maybe there is a drought that is
making that trees in certain
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area of Let's say 500 hectares
of Plantation.
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Making the trees actual dying.
Should we do something about it?
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So should we maybe send our
operators on the ground to take
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care of this?
And then the other question, you
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may be asking yourself, is what
is the above-ground biomass
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amount of organic carbon?
That start I organic carbon is
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something that's making the
headlines now and then because
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we want to have less CO2 less
methane in the atmosphere and
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more actually sequestered down.
The plant, so that we slow down
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the Greenhouse Effect.
And this is another thing that
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you want to be murdering.
All of those things are easily
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doable with satellites and the
easiest way of actually
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measuring this parameters of our
forest Plantation is on our
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beef.
I, so this is what we are doing
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and to I'm glad to be talking to
you today because just like we
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just discussed before the show
for the city of perspective from
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the Can go perspective.
This is super interesting area
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where there are not that many
tools that makes sitios product
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people lives easier.
Yeah.
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James, thank you very much.
It was very like, detailed
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explanation.
One thing I'm wondering so you
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take the data that comes from
the satellite and you presented
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in a useful format to
businesses.
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Is that right?
I get that.
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That's correct.
I would even say that it's not
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only about present about
transforming processing the data
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because data alone satellite
data is like like he writes
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Beautiful image.
You can hang on the wall and it
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looks good in your in your
Saloon living room.
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But if you want to get to in
size, then you will have to
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process multispectral
information.
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And for example, come up with
insights about amount of
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chlorophyll so that is contained
in the in the leaves of the
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tree.
Okay.
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And do you believe that you have
to Target with these satellites
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operators to take the data and
then yourself to do the
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presentation and, you know,
whatever the nice work, right?
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Am I correct?
That's correct.
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Okay, that's, that's great.
You talked a lot about, you
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know, the forest protections
which is.
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I think it's something very
Noble and I believe everyone
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should be caring about the
environment but what are other
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like use cases is that people
can benefit from the data.
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That you present to them course.
So among our customers, we have
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really interesting company from
Denmark, that is monitoring
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peatlands.
So Pete's storages, which is
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another form of carbon that is
sequestered in the, in the
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ground but we can expand
farther.
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It's not only about grounded.
Be about Maritime monitoring.
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And for example, another Super
interesting Croatian company
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that we are working with is
using or B-52 monitor fuel
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spills.
So let's say that there is a
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ship that has some sort of
problems with the engine and
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then fuel spills into into the
ocean, or there is a tanker,
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right?
That's a spills.
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The oil that they are
transporting into the ocean and
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this can lead to Huge damage
that is made to all the ocean
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Wildlife.
If you detect this all spills
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quickly, you can react, you can
send some reaction, some some
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troops to take care of, of the
oil and save animals save the
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beaches if your act fast because
if you if you are unable to
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detect it quickly, then wind
waves will make the oil.
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Go over all the ocean and It
won't be easy to, to, prevent
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the damage that this make,
right?
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So they're working on this, but
we can go even Beyond nature
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protection.
Satellite has are not only about
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about Wildlife protection.
Another use case we are working
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on is for some, with some Polish
company.
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Actually, we were working on
vessel detection and vessel
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Direction on the one hand.
Yes, you can be about illegal
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fishing with 1/3 of the fish.
If we are eating is caught
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illegally, I'm not sure if you
knew but it can be about so many
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other things it can be about.
Well, some war time activity.
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Some some Naval forces trying to
sneak in.
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Right?
So vessel identification is a
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super interesting thing on its
own but then we can think about
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renewable energy production and
we have a pleasure of working
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with a super interesting
Norwegian company, who has very
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Files to algorithms that are
identifying classifying solar
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panels photovoltaic
installations and based on their
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learnings.
They they are able to say, okay
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this photovoltaic Farm is able
to produce that much energy and
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actually the weather over the
next 24 hours will be this.
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So we are predicting that they
will give into the grid that
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much energy and this is
interesting.
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Testing for the for the
photovoltaics company but also
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for for managers of the of the
entire power grid in a certain
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area and then we can move
forward.
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It's not only about photovoltaic
system, not only about renewable
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energy, it's about it's about
agriculture and we are working
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with some smart people who are
estimating the amount of organic
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carbon in the soil and soil
moisture.
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To tell Farmers.
Okay, in this patch of land,
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your corn, will grow really
nicely because there is enough
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carbon there is, it is moist wet
enough to make the corn grow
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well.
And actually down there it's
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much better if you plant that
say grapes because the soil is
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very mineral, very dry, so it's
no use for for Typical crops,
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but actually grapes will grow
really well in this.
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Right?
So they're using our beef,
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either using satellite imagery
to estimate to assess what what
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type of soil works best.
And then we can talk about not
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only nature but we can talk
about human settlements or Urban
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settlements and predicting how
the urban sprawl effects the
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surrounding terrain, also
assessing air quality, A couple
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of months ago, I spoke to one of
the people from Copenhagen
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municipalities, you know,
capital of Denmark, Rich City
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and 10%.
They realized that the 10% of
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people, then percent of
inhabitants of beautiful Rich.
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Copenhagen are dying due to are
diseases.
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Third, due to diseases caused by
poor, air quality.
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This is surprising, right?
Because I would be like it's
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coastal city.
There is a lot of Of winds there
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is not so much factories but 10%
and they decided to do something
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they decide to revitalize the
city.
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So they analyze patterns of air
quality Over Districts of
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Copenhagen and based on these
things.
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And okay, in clean areas, we
will build more Parks will build
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more places where children can
play outside and in those more
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polluted areas.
Well, of course will not.
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Polish the parks.
But so we will put some domes
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under, which, the under those
domes people, will be able to
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have meetups, and they will not
have to breath this unhealthy.
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Air will put Dom's over the bus
stops in those more polluted
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areas of the Cities.
So, this is the information
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that's actually used in
Copenhagen to decide how the
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city develops how to steer a
vitalizes and well, this is just
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a couple of use cases as I could
go on and on, but I'm not sure.
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Have that many hours?
Yeah.
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Actually.
It's very fascinating because to
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see.
Usually the I mean people thinks
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that satellites are only for
communications satellites are
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you know like the tradition
Espionage?
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Sorry.
Yeah.
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The traditional use cases says
but it's very nice to see.
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I'm a big believer in the power
of data right and you know you
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build the data sets and you
prepare the models for people.
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So it's nice use Is I would say
the question again, it came just
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to my mind.
Now I don't want to deep to take
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too much technical, but I mean,
because usually, when we talk
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about satellite images and all
this, I believe the data is not
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always real time, right?
So, because it's you're gonna
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build something historical, am I
correct?
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There are multiple uses, right?
So if we're talking about air
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quality over Copenhagen,
actually it's super important
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for us to be able to look into
the look into the past and see
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the Patterns over the years
actually.
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So maybe we're looking like
three years into the past to
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see, okay, in January, it is
this in February.
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This is this in March, this
usual, right?
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So we need long span of data but
then when you, when we are
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talking about illegal fishing
and you want to be able, okay,
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as a coast guard, I want to
decide which area of the bay we
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should be patrolling more often
here.
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Actually will want to have as
much real time data as possible.
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Yeah.
And so with all this new space,
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Oscillations this new real time
is becoming closer to real, real
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time.
So you are, right that if we're
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talking about landsat program,
Sentinel here, we've got usually
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at least one day of delay, but
then when we are talking about
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some new space constellations,
it's sometimes down to hours and
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I know that some of them are
working to to Bringing Down to
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even minutes.
Yeah, that's that's amazing.
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I was looking at the way Way.
I mean, obviously what I you
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offer this service as a
software-as-a-service, right?
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As I said, is offering course.
And, you know, the first time
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when I was looking to the the
way.
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So you price it based on the M2,
right?
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This is the way that you, you do
it, okay?
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Because, you know, when we think
about such, we think about
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number of users.
We think about, you know, a
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couple of other things but it's
nice to see also, how, you know,
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this stuff Light imagery.
I mean technology was also
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brought to a SAS model so you
know congratulations on this.
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Jacob one more, one more thing.
Actually I out of curiosity I
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wanted to ask you like I'm sure
that you have seen a problem,
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you have seen a pain somewhere
that drove you to start or B5.
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What was that?
You know, as they say the aha
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moment that.
Okay, I need to start something
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to solve this problem and You
did that with or beef?
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I yeah, well I think it's like
with all great business idea
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00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:42,000
that they are started with two
or more people confronting each
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other's and and presenting total
different ways of looking at the
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world, right?
Like the entire travel Tech
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business, it started from one
American Airlines executive and
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00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,500
so on IBM executive on the same
flight and talking Each other
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how painful it is to book a seat
on a flight and that this whole
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system of booking, a flight
flight seeds with, you know,
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boxes representing planes and
then spots in the boxes you put
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cards in the boxes and when the
box is full then it means you're
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sold out all the all the seats
on the plane.
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It was somewhere in the in the
in the 60s when they They had
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this conversation.
This is how this whole, computer
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reservation system that started
for me.
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Well, it wasn't a flight,
actually, it was the phone call
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I received from from a colleague
back from, from my University
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days.
They say guy, I met 20 years
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ago, and he was telling me how
frustrating it is for him.
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And his wife.
With whom they started an earth,
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observation consultancy to deal
with all this manual processing.
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Like, when the customer comes to
their Banner.
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They need to contact their
providers first and then they
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will call satellite
constellations.
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Okay.
Maybe we need to this pictures
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over this area and they'll wait
for pictures to arrive.
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Then they will download it from
STP, this archive protocol to
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their computers, then on their
computers, not in the cloud, but
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on their computers, they will
process the imagery to get to
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some results.
And since we are talking about
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gigabytes of data Ah well it's
processing may take time
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overnight.
Luckily download is not the
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00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,900
problem, right?
Because we fiber, it's just a
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couple of hours but with with,
when you are trying to process,
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when you are trying to do some
advanced stuff on your laptop,
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it's yeah.
You leave it overnight and you
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come the next day and you are
uploading a bunch of images.
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To another piece of software,
you are doing some analysis.
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You are taking a screenshot.
We are pasting this screenshot
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into a PDF.
You're attaching this PDF to an
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And you are attaching an invoice
to the imagery, send it to your
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customer and then the customer
goes back and says, oh yes, this
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is great.
But what about this area back to
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the north, you're starting the
whole process again.
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So, this is manual.
You need to wait a lot and this
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is what makes my colleague.
Very smart guy.
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00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,900
Frustrated seeing the amount of
repetitive work that is being
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done by his team and he was
telling me.
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00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:28,200
Oh yeah, couper the city all CPR
for this travel Tech y,
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00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,100
combinator back to start up to
Tell me, how can I build this?
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00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,000
Google Maps like interface,
where my users just open a
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00:18:36,008 --> 00:18:38,100
webpage.
There is Alex, very of interests
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00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:40,600
and within minutes because we
are using cloud with this 21st
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00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,500
century, so everything can be
done within minutes, we are
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00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:47,400
presenting them some results,
explaining this are the vessels
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that were discovered over this
area.
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00:18:49,300 --> 00:18:51,800
This is the class of the vessel.
This is the type of the vessel,
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00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,900
this is maybe even their
affiliation registration, right?
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00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:03,200
How can I, how can we build it?
and, I was a bit naive at that
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00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,700
point in my life.
I was thinking that.
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00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:08,700
Well, it's like with the rest of
the tech industry, right?
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00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:12,400
So, if you want to deploy your
prototype, you will not have to
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00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:19,000
harness AWS on your own sheep or
a prototype heroic, or other the
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00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,500
services of the type are totally
sufficient.
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00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:24,000
Or maybe you'll just use AWS
Lambda, right?
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To run small pieces of code.
Serverless.
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Not really caring about
kubernetes eks ccs.
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00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,100
Scaling up and down, fargate,
Etc.
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00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:39,000
If you want to send an email you
will not build your SMTP server
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00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,100
yourself.
You will you send great or
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00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:43,700
twilio and actually to Leah?
Well, it's useful.
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00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:46,500
Also, when you send SMS is etc,
etc.
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00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:50,400
I do you and your listeners,
know that there is plenitude of
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00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,300
tools when we are talking about
typical Tech use cases, but when
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00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:58,000
you are analyzing satellite
imagery, when you are analyzing
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00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,600
images, that have a couple of
gigabytes, then, AWS Lambda is
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00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,000
not Not for you because the
processing may take more than 15
318
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,200
min, sometimes you may need more
than the available amount of RAM
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00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,800
memory, that is on Lambda.
So you need actual harness, this
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00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,900
kubernetes, eks far, gate
mechanism.
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00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:23,000
Then when we are talking about
presenting data, also, there is
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00:20:23,100 --> 00:20:28,400
not that many tools, react.
Yes, reacted is a foundation.
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00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,600
But then you need to call the a
lot in react to make.
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00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:37,500
Beautiful compelling analysis
ready for for executives who are
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00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:41,300
no experts in geophysics or that
type of thing.
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00:20:41,300 --> 00:20:45,500
I so, by digging into this, I
realize, okay, there is huge
327
00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:50,800
difference between this
beautiful, shiny new industry of
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00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,200
technology that is for General,
use.
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00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,600
And the technology that is being
used in every observation
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00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,000
industry.
And so we decided to fill out
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00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:00,600
the space.
Okay.
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00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,700
That's I like the story because
you sorted not one problem, you
333
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:08,100
solved the many problems that
the same time.
334
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:12,400
So you solve the problem of
things being slow, you solve the
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00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,600
problem of communication as
well.
336
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,400
And, you know, as you said like
you you need to rely on multiple
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00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,800
Technologies to build the, I
mean, before, what you came up
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00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,200
with.
So they needed multiple
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00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,900
components or multiple, let's
say Point solution to to solve
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00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:32,500
their problem.
And you brought Or everything
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00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:35,600
there.
Although, like Jakob you are
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00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,600
today the CEO but I know that
you were a CTO as well for, for
343
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,500
quite some time and I do you
still do the technical part now,
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00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:47,600
or is it like partially you do
it?
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00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:53,400
Well, very little, because I'm
happy to work with a fantastic
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00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,300
team.
Also fantastic technical team.
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00:21:56,300 --> 00:22:00,200
So they are far, smarter than me
when it comes to programming,
348
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:05,300
when it comes to Audrey.
Sometimes I dab certain parts of
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00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:08,500
the system when it's like, about
building something.
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00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,000
For one of our users, when, when
I need to make a demo, then then
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00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,000
this is the type of Technology
I'm touching.
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00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:23,500
But I don't have to go deeply
into the system and luckily we
353
00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:29,700
have much smarter people on
board, that's that's impressive
354
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,000
to heal.
That from you, I've seen you
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00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:41,700
have like long history in Tech,
I would say, like, how, how was
356
00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:45,000
the experience?
Like, I mean, how you can maybe
357
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:50,600
in light other people who want
someday to become a CTO and
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00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,200
maybe they want to become either
a co-founder as a CTO and maybe
359
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:59,100
a CEO of their own companies.
Because I've seen the Q you've
360
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:04,900
gained some experience with Some
big names in the market and then
361
00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:09,300
you became sitio yourself for
quite some time and then you you
362
00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,700
went there.
So if you can just very, I mean,
363
00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:18,900
like give a some advice to
fellow people who are just
364
00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:22,800
starting, maybe now, or maybe if
someone already they are in the
365
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:27,700
tech industry and they want to,
you know, go up to the ladder or
366
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:31,100
maybe they want to be inspired
to become their to have their
367
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:33,100
own.
Their own company.
368
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:40,200
Well, I think that what is
important if if you want to grow
369
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,100
as a leader is that you take
care of the team, right?
370
00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:48,000
And that was always important
for me to be able to work with
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00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:51,800
great people and in order to be
able to work with those people,
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00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,300
I knew that I need to take the
best care.
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00:23:54,300 --> 00:23:57,700
I can of the team.
Not that I always succeeded.
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00:23:57,700 --> 00:24:03,000
But at least I was trying hard
to take care of And so I think
375
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,900
that this is one of the things
that helped me to grow that.
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00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:12,800
I was well able to keep good
things, good very good people
377
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,200
around me and having a good team
we can achieve great results.
378
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:23,900
And then the other thing that is
important, in my opinion is to
379
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,500
always think about product and
business.
380
00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:32,500
Sometimes we technical people
are lured by Technology on its
381
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:34,600
own, right?
Oh, this is so amazing.
382
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,300
This new framework, I will do
some refactoring and my code
383
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:41,200
will look even better.
And for me for multiple years,
384
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,100
right?
Because I started programming,
385
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:48,400
when I was 14, it was in 1995,
around that period of time.
386
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,700
So, previous Millennium, and I
spent a lot of time doing
387
00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:56,900
refactoring and enjoying.
Oh wow, this design is so
388
00:24:56,900 --> 00:24:59,800
beautiful.
We've got classes.
389
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,500
We've got abstraction layers.
Types of interfaces and
390
00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:08,700
inheritance between this, and
that's so great.
391
00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:14,200
But then what exact errors, what
impact it has on the products
392
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,000
and what impact our product has
on the lives of other people.
393
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:25,800
So the people that I work with
for well, like like my
394
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:31,600
technical, co-founder me, how we
are working together since 2000?
395
00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:35,000
9 2010 together.
And this is also an amazing
396
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,100
thing about him, that he's a
great technology, straight
397
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:42,000
hacker, great, programmer, great
product guy, but he's always
398
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,000
thinking about how this will
impact the end-user.
399
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:47,500
Will this make their lives
better?
400
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,700
If our refactoring eventually
will make their lives better, if
401
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:54,400
you can clearly say yes, then
it's worth to doing it now but
402
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,200
if it's not something that will
I'd know if refactoring will be
403
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,900
able to much to deliver much
faster if it's like a little bit
404
00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:04,000
faster if we can Delay the
refactoring because it's not
405
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,800
slowing us down that much, maybe
we can postpone it and maybe we
406
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,700
can focus on delivering the real
value.
407
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:13,700
And this is what I respect what
I value in the technical people
408
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:17,400
that they can like, okay
Technologies is my my precious
409
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,600
thing but I can look Beyond it.
I can, I will seek for the
410
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,100
impacts on on the for the
end-users wonderful.
411
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:31,000
I also believe in, of course I
might technically guy as well.
412
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,800
But the main reason, I came up
with the idea of this podcast,
413
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,700
actually, is how we can do the
bridging between technique
414
00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:42,700
technology, in general and
businesses and Technical people
415
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:45,500
to let them think about business
right now.
416
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:49,700
Finally think I want to ask you
because you mentioned about you
417
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:52,000
know, the past and the way you
build.
418
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,600
Now the current startup you are
having have you used you know
419
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,000
the same concept of building
maybe because you wanted to see
420
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,400
how the business will like it or
not.
421
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:04,400
Not all the users.
Did you use the concept of
422
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:08,700
having a MVP like, minimal
viable product at the beginning
423
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:11,500
and and then, you know, like
based on the feedback you
424
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:15,500
accelerated, is this what what
you used in this startup?
425
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:18,900
And the once before, this is
exactly what we use.
426
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:23,100
Sometimes you are unable to MVP
something because there is this
427
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,200
theory of Peter teal, right 0 to
1.
428
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,100
Yeah, sure.
If you read the book, yeah,
429
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:32,300
that's you cannot MVP everything
and Lean Startup is Sir, not an
430
00:27:32,300 --> 00:27:36,600
answer to everything and of
course, but then majority of
431
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,300
things can be MVP to to certain
extent.
432
00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:44,900
You can measure if people are
interested in this or that in my
433
00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:48,200
previous company.
When we were deciding, whether
434
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,700
we want to build a
subscription-based product for
435
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,800
air, Travelers, this is tricky,
right?
436
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,500
Because as an air traveler, you
rarely have loyalty towards
437
00:27:59,500 --> 00:28:01,400
particular Airline towards
particular.
438
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:04,500
Euler travel agency towards
particular, vendor at all.
439
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:08,200
Because usually what you do is
you go to Skyscanner kayak and
440
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,800
who's just select to the
cheapest price.
441
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:15,300
And so, when we're thinking, uh,
can we at my previous company?
442
00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:18,200
Can we provide a subscription
based products for travelers?
443
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,700
What we did first is that we had
like, hey, we've got this
444
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:25,900
product click here to subscribe
and actually when you subscribe
445
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:27,800
button, thank you, thank you for
your interest.
446
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:30,700
Leave your email with us and we
will be launching soon.
447
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:34,000
Once we gathered to the proper
number of people that are
448
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,600
interested in this product, we
launched something, we invested
449
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:41,800
bigger amount of time into
coding something, okay?
450
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,600
That's, that's a good
conversation.
451
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,300
I would say.
And I believe, we need to make a
452
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:52,500
maybe a full episode about the
two schools.
453
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:55,400
I would say, Peter, Thiel
School, 0, to 1.
454
00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,200
And, you know, the Lean Startup
school because yeah, I agree
455
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,100
with you.
Like it depends on The concept
456
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:06,000
you are trying to do is because
zero to one is more, really?
457
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,300
Your product is very, very
Innovative.
458
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,000
You know, you have a huge Edge,
you know, like people to copy
459
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,300
your product.
They need maybe five years until
460
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:17,300
they can copy you.
So this is where you would be in
461
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:20,400
the one later, right?
While in the Linea, you know,
462
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,800
that you have some competition
and then, you know, like, but
463
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,400
you keep iterating.
Also, the idea maybe you would
464
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,400
be also preventing the whole
idea, just to see how this will
465
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,900
work on.
We have one comment here.
466
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,600
Yes.
Because we might think that, oh,
467
00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:39,400
great innovators like Steve
Jobs, right?
468
00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:43,900
They are the 021 people.
I'm not sure if this is really
469
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:47,600
the case, I think that Steve
Jobs had this intuition that
470
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,700
allowed him to take a lot of the
input that others will need to
471
00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:55,600
have surveys, will need to have
a lot of input, right?
472
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,600
He had this intuition had this
good eye and ear for what the
473
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,700
customers need and this is what
Told him to build something
474
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,400
Innovative, something that
people want.
475
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,100
And if you are building a taught
in total isolation, right, if
476
00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:10,100
you are, oh I don't need to
listen.
477
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:14,500
Anyone, I just know.
I don't think one can succeed in
478
00:30:14,500 --> 00:30:17,200
the center.
Yeah, I believe he's not in the
479
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,100
0 to 1, I believe maybe.
Of course, from the outside
480
00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:24,900
looks like Steve Jobs, maybe
he's a zero to one guy, but I
481
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:27,400
think he was iterating all the
times he was listening.
482
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,000
Yeah, maybe not in the best.
Exactly way that he Like because
483
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,500
of his nature.
But yeah, I believe he was
484
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:37,300
listening to the customers and
he was always Shifting the
485
00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:39,200
business, the way it needs to
go.
486
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,400
Yeah, yeah cup.
I really enjoyed this
487
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,100
conversation today.
I hope like whether you are
488
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:52,200
listening to this podcast or you
are watching it on Spotify or
489
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,800
YouTube you enjoyed it as well.
Thank you very much for joining
490
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,400
us today and we'll see you in a
next episode.
491
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,100
Thank you very much.
Thanks.
492
00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:02,400
Mike.
It was great to talk to you.
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,200
Hello, and welcome to the City
Hall, Show with mammoths.
2
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,000
I'm your host Muhammad.
And in each episode, I'm
3
00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:18,600
exploring the latest trends,
insights and strategies, in
4
00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,500
topics, like cybersecurity
digital transformation, emerging
5
00:00:22,500 --> 00:00:25,800
technology, startups, and
Entrepreneurship, from thought,
6
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,700
leaders, and innovators,
entrepreneurs.
7
00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:31,200
And Founders, we will hear from
experts across with a wide range
8
00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,500
of Industries who are driving
change and making an impact in
9
00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:37,700
the world of tech and business.
Thank you for tuning in today.
10
00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:41,600
And let's get started today.
I have with me, Jacob, who's
11
00:00:42,300 --> 00:00:47,700
joining me from Poland?
Jacob is the CEO of old B5,
12
00:00:48,300 --> 00:00:52,800
which is a, I will let you Jacob
explain that to the audience
13
00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,500
because you will do it the best
way.
14
00:00:54,700 --> 00:00:56,300
Thank you for being on the show
today.
15
00:00:56,300 --> 00:00:59,900
And please can you introduce
yourself and your company.
16
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,200
Sure have.
Thanks a lot.
17
00:01:03,300 --> 00:01:04,599
Michael meant for having me
here.
18
00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:07,200
It's a big player.
Hello, everyone.
19
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,500
My name is Jakob gibberish, and
I'm the CEO of or B5.
20
00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:17,200
Our company is building a
platform that transforms
21
00:01:17,700 --> 00:01:23,700
geospatial data and satellite
imagery into fully functional
22
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:28,700
web applications, interactive
dashboards and reliable apis.
23
00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,200
And if You're wondering why
right?
24
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,400
What's interesting in it
recently we started focusing a
25
00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,400
lot on the nature based
Solutions and and Forest
26
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:46,900
vertical especially because this
is a super important area
27
00:01:46,900 --> 00:01:50,300
important for the entire planet.
If you think about all the
28
00:01:50,300 --> 00:01:53,400
people all over the world tried
that are taking care of the
29
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:56,700
forests.
There are two main reasons why
30
00:01:56,700 --> 00:02:00,200
they do this.
Some of them, they care that.
31
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,000
They look after Forest, they
plan for us just for present for
32
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,000
now.
Right to have Timber that they
33
00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:11,300
used to heat their homes to have
Timber, that can be used to
34
00:02:11,500 --> 00:02:18,400
build furniture or other houses,
or to produce pile palm oil and
35
00:02:18,500 --> 00:02:23,200
other types of food.
So, this is one group, the other
36
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,800
group is people, planting taking
care of forest for the future,
37
00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,800
for the future generations, to
make sure that our a planet
38
00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:37,600
stays, as beautiful as green as
it is right now and this is no
39
00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,200
less important goal.
Both these types of people need
40
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,200
to understand what is the
conditions?
41
00:02:44,700 --> 00:02:46,400
What is the conditions of their
reserves?
42
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:50,200
Plantations, and this is where
Earth observation comes into
43
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:54,100
place by using satellites and I
don't know if you know, but
44
00:02:54,100 --> 00:02:56,700
there is some over 1,000
satellites, orbiting, the Earth
45
00:02:56,700 --> 00:03:01,000
collecting terabytes of data,
every minute by using Could data
46
00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:05,500
coming from this satellite so we
can provide people who want to
47
00:03:05,500 --> 00:03:11,500
plant grow healthy, forest with
actual up-to-date information
48
00:03:11,500 --> 00:03:15,200
about factors like Forest Crown
cover.
49
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:19,300
So, what percentage of the area
is covered with crowns and is it
50
00:03:19,300 --> 00:03:22,900
increasing his decreasing?
Is there some unwanted
51
00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:25,400
deforestation taking place?
Let's imagine that.
52
00:03:25,700 --> 00:03:29,900
Muhammad you are working for a
forest Department.
53
00:03:30,500 --> 00:03:33,200
In Lebanon.
Right.
54
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,800
So we are we are talking to to
smart people from Lebanon that
55
00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:41,400
are referencing their, their
country, and they need to
56
00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:42,800
understand.
Okay, is there some illegal
57
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,200
logging taking place?
It's our Plantation growing
58
00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:46,800
Health.
The other question you may be
59
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:51,700
asking yourself is what is the
health of my Forest?
60
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:54,400
Is there some pests attacking
the trees?
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00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,400
Maybe there is a drought that is
making that trees in certain
62
00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:03,500
area of Let's say 500 hectares
of Plantation.
63
00:04:03,900 --> 00:04:07,600
Making the trees actual dying.
Should we do something about it?
64
00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,100
So should we maybe send our
operators on the ground to take
65
00:04:10,100 --> 00:04:12,600
care of this?
And then the other question, you
66
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,200
may be asking yourself, is what
is the above-ground biomass
67
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,600
amount of organic carbon?
That start I organic carbon is
68
00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,200
something that's making the
headlines now and then because
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00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:28,000
we want to have less CO2 less
methane in the atmosphere and
70
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,900
more actually sequestered down.
The plant, so that we slow down
71
00:04:32,500 --> 00:04:36,900
the Greenhouse Effect.
And this is another thing that
72
00:04:36,900 --> 00:04:39,800
you want to be murdering.
All of those things are easily
73
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,300
doable with satellites and the
easiest way of actually
74
00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:48,000
measuring this parameters of our
forest Plantation is on our
75
00:04:48,008 --> 00:04:50,900
beef.
I, so this is what we are doing
76
00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,600
and to I'm glad to be talking to
you today because just like we
77
00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,000
just discussed before the show
for the city of perspective from
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00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,400
the Can go perspective.
This is super interesting area
79
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,800
where there are not that many
tools that makes sitios product
80
00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,800
people lives easier.
Yeah.
81
00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:12,500
James, thank you very much.
It was very like, detailed
82
00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:15,600
explanation.
One thing I'm wondering so you
83
00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:20,600
take the data that comes from
the satellite and you presented
84
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:25,500
in a useful format to
businesses.
85
00:05:25,500 --> 00:05:27,200
Is that right?
I get that.
86
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,600
That's correct.
I would even say that it's not
87
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,100
only about present about
transforming processing the data
88
00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:36,300
because data alone satellite
data is like like he writes
89
00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:40,000
Beautiful image.
You can hang on the wall and it
90
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:43,600
looks good in your in your
Saloon living room.
91
00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:47,400
But if you want to get to in
size, then you will have to
92
00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,500
process multispectral
information.
93
00:05:51,500 --> 00:05:56,900
And for example, come up with
insights about amount of
94
00:05:56,900 --> 00:06:00,000
chlorophyll so that is contained
in the in the leaves of the
95
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:00,900
tree.
Okay.
96
00:06:00,900 --> 00:06:05,200
And do you believe that you have
to Target with these satellites
97
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:09,100
operators to take the data and
then yourself to do the
98
00:06:09,100 --> 00:06:12,100
presentation and, you know,
whatever the nice work, right?
99
00:06:12,100 --> 00:06:14,000
Am I correct?
That's correct.
100
00:06:14,100 --> 00:06:17,300
Okay, that's, that's great.
You talked a lot about, you
101
00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:19,300
know, the forest protections
which is.
102
00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:22,800
I think it's something very
Noble and I believe everyone
103
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,000
should be caring about the
environment but what are other
104
00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:30,100
like use cases is that people
can benefit from the data.
105
00:06:30,300 --> 00:06:37,800
That you present to them course.
So among our customers, we have
106
00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:44,600
really interesting company from
Denmark, that is monitoring
107
00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:49,700
peatlands.
So Pete's storages, which is
108
00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:55,900
another form of carbon that is
sequestered in the, in the
109
00:06:55,900 --> 00:06:58,300
ground but we can expand
farther.
110
00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:03,300
It's not only about grounded.
Be about Maritime monitoring.
111
00:07:03,300 --> 00:07:08,100
And for example, another Super
interesting Croatian company
112
00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:12,900
that we are working with is
using or B-52 monitor fuel
113
00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:15,100
spills.
So let's say that there is a
114
00:07:15,100 --> 00:07:19,700
ship that has some sort of
problems with the engine and
115
00:07:19,700 --> 00:07:23,500
then fuel spills into into the
ocean, or there is a tanker,
116
00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:24,700
right?
That's a spills.
117
00:07:25,500 --> 00:07:28,300
The oil that they are
transporting into the ocean and
118
00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:33,100
this can lead to Huge damage
that is made to all the ocean
119
00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:36,500
Wildlife.
If you detect this all spills
120
00:07:36,500 --> 00:07:42,000
quickly, you can react, you can
send some reaction, some some
121
00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:47,700
troops to take care of, of the
oil and save animals save the
122
00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:53,600
beaches if your act fast because
if you if you are unable to
123
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,600
detect it quickly, then wind
waves will make the oil.
124
00:07:58,300 --> 00:08:04,000
Go over all the ocean and It
won't be easy to, to, prevent
125
00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:05,300
the damage that this make,
right?
126
00:08:05,300 --> 00:08:09,800
So they're working on this, but
we can go even Beyond nature
127
00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,700
protection.
Satellite has are not only about
128
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:18,400
about Wildlife protection.
Another use case we are working
129
00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,500
on is for some, with some Polish
company.
130
00:08:22,500 --> 00:08:25,500
Actually, we were working on
vessel detection and vessel
131
00:08:25,500 --> 00:08:28,600
Direction on the one hand.
Yes, you can be about illegal
132
00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,500
fishing with 1/3 of the fish.
If we are eating is caught
133
00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:35,100
illegally, I'm not sure if you
knew but it can be about so many
134
00:08:35,100 --> 00:08:40,600
other things it can be about.
Well, some war time activity.
135
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,500
Some some Naval forces trying to
sneak in.
136
00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:46,800
Right?
So vessel identification is a
137
00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,300
super interesting thing on its
own but then we can think about
138
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:55,300
renewable energy production and
we have a pleasure of working
139
00:08:55,300 --> 00:09:00,100
with a super interesting
Norwegian company, who has very
140
00:09:00,300 --> 00:09:07,700
Files to algorithms that are
identifying classifying solar
141
00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:12,500
panels photovoltaic
installations and based on their
142
00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:15,200
learnings.
They they are able to say, okay
143
00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:19,600
this photovoltaic Farm is able
to produce that much energy and
144
00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:23,500
actually the weather over the
next 24 hours will be this.
145
00:09:23,500 --> 00:09:27,900
So we are predicting that they
will give into the grid that
146
00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:30,100
much energy and this is
interesting.
147
00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,000
Testing for the for the
photovoltaics company but also
148
00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,200
for for managers of the of the
entire power grid in a certain
149
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,200
area and then we can move
forward.
150
00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:42,300
It's not only about photovoltaic
system, not only about renewable
151
00:09:42,300 --> 00:09:48,900
energy, it's about it's about
agriculture and we are working
152
00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:55,200
with some smart people who are
estimating the amount of organic
153
00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,900
carbon in the soil and soil
moisture.
154
00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:03,100
To tell Farmers.
Okay, in this patch of land,
155
00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,800
your corn, will grow really
nicely because there is enough
156
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:16,100
carbon there is, it is moist wet
enough to make the corn grow
157
00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:19,000
well.
And actually down there it's
158
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:24,400
much better if you plant that
say grapes because the soil is
159
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:30,900
very mineral, very dry, so it's
no use for for Typical crops,
160
00:10:30,900 --> 00:10:33,400
but actually grapes will grow
really well in this.
161
00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:35,500
Right?
So they're using our beef,
162
00:10:35,500 --> 00:10:40,900
either using satellite imagery
to estimate to assess what what
163
00:10:40,900 --> 00:10:44,000
type of soil works best.
And then we can talk about not
164
00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,700
only nature but we can talk
about human settlements or Urban
165
00:10:47,700 --> 00:10:54,200
settlements and predicting how
the urban sprawl effects the
166
00:10:54,200 --> 00:11:00,600
surrounding terrain, also
assessing air quality, A couple
167
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:05,800
of months ago, I spoke to one of
the people from Copenhagen
168
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:10,600
municipalities, you know,
capital of Denmark, Rich City
169
00:11:10,900 --> 00:11:14,600
and 10%.
They realized that the 10% of
170
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,000
people, then percent of
inhabitants of beautiful Rich.
171
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,400
Copenhagen are dying due to are
diseases.
172
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,800
Third, due to diseases caused by
poor, air quality.
173
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,500
This is surprising, right?
Because I would be like it's
174
00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:31,200
coastal city.
There is a lot of Of winds there
175
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,900
is not so much factories but 10%
and they decided to do something
176
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,400
they decide to revitalize the
city.
177
00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:43,700
So they analyze patterns of air
quality Over Districts of
178
00:11:43,700 --> 00:11:45,400
Copenhagen and based on these
things.
179
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:52,900
And okay, in clean areas, we
will build more Parks will build
180
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,700
more places where children can
play outside and in those more
181
00:11:57,700 --> 00:11:59,700
polluted areas.
Well, of course will not.
182
00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,100
Polish the parks.
But so we will put some domes
183
00:12:03,100 --> 00:12:05,800
under, which, the under those
domes people, will be able to
184
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:10,200
have meetups, and they will not
have to breath this unhealthy.
185
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,900
Air will put Dom's over the bus
stops in those more polluted
186
00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:17,400
areas of the Cities.
So, this is the information
187
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:22,800
that's actually used in
Copenhagen to decide how the
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city develops how to steer a
vitalizes and well, this is just
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a couple of use cases as I could
go on and on, but I'm not sure.
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Have that many hours?
Yeah.
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Actually.
It's very fascinating because to
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see.
Usually the I mean people thinks
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that satellites are only for
communications satellites are
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you know like the tradition
Espionage?
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Sorry.
Yeah.
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The traditional use cases says
but it's very nice to see.
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I'm a big believer in the power
of data right and you know you
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build the data sets and you
prepare the models for people.
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So it's nice use Is I would say
the question again, it came just
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to my mind.
Now I don't want to deep to take
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too much technical, but I mean,
because usually, when we talk
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about satellite images and all
this, I believe the data is not
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always real time, right?
So, because it's you're gonna
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build something historical, am I
correct?
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There are multiple uses, right?
So if we're talking about air
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quality over Copenhagen,
actually it's super important
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for us to be able to look into
the look into the past and see
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the Patterns over the years
actually.
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So maybe we're looking like
three years into the past to
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see, okay, in January, it is
this in February.
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This is this in March, this
usual, right?
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So we need long span of data but
then when you, when we are
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talking about illegal fishing
and you want to be able, okay,
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as a coast guard, I want to
decide which area of the bay we
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should be patrolling more often
here.
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Actually will want to have as
much real time data as possible.
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Yeah.
And so with all this new space,
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Oscillations this new real time
is becoming closer to real, real
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time.
So you are, right that if we're
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talking about landsat program,
Sentinel here, we've got usually
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at least one day of delay, but
then when we are talking about
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some new space constellations,
it's sometimes down to hours and
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I know that some of them are
working to to Bringing Down to
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even minutes.
Yeah, that's that's amazing.
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I was looking at the way Way.
I mean, obviously what I you
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offer this service as a
software-as-a-service, right?
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As I said, is offering course.
And, you know, the first time
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when I was looking to the the
way.
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So you price it based on the M2,
right?
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This is the way that you, you do
it, okay?
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Because, you know, when we think
about such, we think about
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number of users.
We think about, you know, a
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couple of other things but it's
nice to see also, how, you know,
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this stuff Light imagery.
I mean technology was also
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brought to a SAS model so you
know congratulations on this.
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Jacob one more, one more thing.
Actually I out of curiosity I
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wanted to ask you like I'm sure
that you have seen a problem,
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you have seen a pain somewhere
that drove you to start or B5.
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What was that?
You know, as they say the aha
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moment that.
Okay, I need to start something
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to solve this problem and You
did that with or beef?
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I yeah, well I think it's like
with all great business idea
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that they are started with two
or more people confronting each
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other's and and presenting total
different ways of looking at the
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00:15:47,408 --> 00:15:50,600
world, right?
Like the entire travel Tech
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business, it started from one
American Airlines executive and
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00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,500
so on IBM executive on the same
flight and talking Each other
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how painful it is to book a seat
on a flight and that this whole
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system of booking, a flight
flight seeds with, you know,
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boxes representing planes and
then spots in the boxes you put
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cards in the boxes and when the
box is full then it means you're
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sold out all the all the seats
on the plane.
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It was somewhere in the in the
in the 60s when they They had
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this conversation.
This is how this whole, computer
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reservation system that started
for me.
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Well, it wasn't a flight,
actually, it was the phone call
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I received from from a colleague
back from, from my University
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days.
They say guy, I met 20 years
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ago, and he was telling me how
frustrating it is for him.
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And his wife.
With whom they started an earth,
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observation consultancy to deal
with all this manual processing.
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Like, when the customer comes to
their Banner.
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They need to contact their
providers first and then they
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will call satellite
constellations.
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Okay.
Maybe we need to this pictures
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over this area and they'll wait
for pictures to arrive.
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Then they will download it from
STP, this archive protocol to
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their computers, then on their
computers, not in the cloud, but
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on their computers, they will
process the imagery to get to
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some results.
And since we are talking about
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gigabytes of data Ah well it's
processing may take time
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overnight.
Luckily download is not the
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00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,900
problem, right?
Because we fiber, it's just a
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couple of hours but with with,
when you are trying to process,
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when you are trying to do some
advanced stuff on your laptop,
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it's yeah.
You leave it overnight and you
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come the next day and you are
uploading a bunch of images.
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To another piece of software,
you are doing some analysis.
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You are taking a screenshot.
We are pasting this screenshot
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into a PDF.
You're attaching this PDF to an
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And you are attaching an invoice
to the imagery, send it to your
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customer and then the customer
goes back and says, oh yes, this
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is great.
But what about this area back to
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the north, you're starting the
whole process again.
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So, this is manual.
You need to wait a lot and this
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is what makes my colleague.
Very smart guy.
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00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,900
Frustrated seeing the amount of
repetitive work that is being
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done by his team and he was
telling me.
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Oh yeah, couper the city all CPR
for this travel Tech y,
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00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,100
combinator back to start up to
Tell me, how can I build this?
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Google Maps like interface,
where my users just open a
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webpage.
There is Alex, very of interests
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and within minutes because we
are using cloud with this 21st
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century, so everything can be
done within minutes, we are
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00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:47,400
presenting them some results,
explaining this are the vessels
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that were discovered over this
area.
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This is the class of the vessel.
This is the type of the vessel,
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this is maybe even their
affiliation registration, right?
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How can I, how can we build it?
and, I was a bit naive at that
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00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,700
point in my life.
I was thinking that.
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Well, it's like with the rest of
the tech industry, right?
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So, if you want to deploy your
prototype, you will not have to
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00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:19,000
harness AWS on your own sheep or
a prototype heroic, or other the
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00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,500
services of the type are totally
sufficient.
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00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:24,000
Or maybe you'll just use AWS
Lambda, right?
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To run small pieces of code.
Serverless.
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Not really caring about
kubernetes eks ccs.
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Scaling up and down, fargate,
Etc.
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00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:39,000
If you want to send an email you
will not build your SMTP server
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00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,100
yourself.
You will you send great or
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00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:43,700
twilio and actually to Leah?
Well, it's useful.
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00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:46,500
Also, when you send SMS is etc,
etc.
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I do you and your listeners,
know that there is plenitude of
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00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:54,300
tools when we are talking about
typical Tech use cases, but when
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00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:58,000
you are analyzing satellite
imagery, when you are analyzing
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00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,600
images, that have a couple of
gigabytes, then, AWS Lambda is
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00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:05,000
not Not for you because the
processing may take more than 15
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00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:10,200
min, sometimes you may need more
than the available amount of RAM
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00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,800
memory, that is on Lambda.
So you need actual harness, this
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00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,900
kubernetes, eks far, gate
mechanism.
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00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:23,000
Then when we are talking about
presenting data, also, there is
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not that many tools, react.
Yes, reacted is a foundation.
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00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,600
But then you need to call the a
lot in react to make.
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00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:37,500
Beautiful compelling analysis
ready for for executives who are
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no experts in geophysics or that
type of thing.
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00:20:41,300 --> 00:20:45,500
I so, by digging into this, I
realize, okay, there is huge
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00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:50,800
difference between this
beautiful, shiny new industry of
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00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,200
technology that is for General,
use.
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00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,600
And the technology that is being
used in every observation
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00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,000
industry.
And so we decided to fill out
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the space.
Okay.
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00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,700
That's I like the story because
you sorted not one problem, you
333
00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:08,100
solved the many problems that
the same time.
334
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:12,400
So you solve the problem of
things being slow, you solve the
335
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,600
problem of communication as
well.
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00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,400
And, you know, as you said like
you you need to rely on multiple
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00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,800
Technologies to build the, I
mean, before, what you came up
338
00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,200
with.
So they needed multiple
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00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:29,900
components or multiple, let's
say Point solution to to solve
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00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:32,500
their problem.
And you brought Or everything
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00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:35,600
there.
Although, like Jakob you are
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00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,600
today the CEO but I know that
you were a CTO as well for, for
343
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,500
quite some time and I do you
still do the technical part now,
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00:21:44,500 --> 00:21:47,600
or is it like partially you do
it?
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00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:53,400
Well, very little, because I'm
happy to work with a fantastic
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00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,300
team.
Also fantastic technical team.
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00:21:56,300 --> 00:22:00,200
So they are far, smarter than me
when it comes to programming,
348
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:05,300
when it comes to Audrey.
Sometimes I dab certain parts of
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00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:08,500
the system when it's like, about
building something.
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00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,000
For one of our users, when, when
I need to make a demo, then then
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00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,000
this is the type of Technology
I'm touching.
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00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:23,500
But I don't have to go deeply
into the system and luckily we
353
00:22:23,500 --> 00:22:29,700
have much smarter people on
board, that's that's impressive
354
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,000
to heal.
That from you, I've seen you
355
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:41,700
have like long history in Tech,
I would say, like, how, how was
356
00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:45,000
the experience?
Like, I mean, how you can maybe
357
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:50,600
in light other people who want
someday to become a CTO and
358
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,200
maybe they want to become either
a co-founder as a CTO and maybe
359
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:59,100
a CEO of their own companies.
Because I've seen the Q you've
360
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:04,900
gained some experience with Some
big names in the market and then
361
00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:09,300
you became sitio yourself for
quite some time and then you you
362
00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,700
went there.
So if you can just very, I mean,
363
00:23:12,700 --> 00:23:18,900
like give a some advice to
fellow people who are just
364
00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:22,800
starting, maybe now, or maybe if
someone already they are in the
365
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:27,700
tech industry and they want to,
you know, go up to the ladder or
366
00:23:27,700 --> 00:23:31,100
maybe they want to be inspired
to become their to have their
367
00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:33,100
own.
Their own company.
368
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:40,200
Well, I think that what is
important if if you want to grow
369
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,100
as a leader is that you take
care of the team, right?
370
00:23:43,100 --> 00:23:48,000
And that was always important
for me to be able to work with
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00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:51,800
great people and in order to be
able to work with those people,
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00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,300
I knew that I need to take the
best care.
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I can of the team.
Not that I always succeeded.
374
00:23:57,700 --> 00:24:03,000
But at least I was trying hard
to take care of And so I think
375
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,900
that this is one of the things
that helped me to grow that.
376
00:24:08,100 --> 00:24:12,800
I was well able to keep good
things, good very good people
377
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:17,200
around me and having a good team
we can achieve great results.
378
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:23,900
And then the other thing that is
important, in my opinion is to
379
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,500
always think about product and
business.
380
00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:32,500
Sometimes we technical people
are lured by Technology on its
381
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:34,600
own, right?
Oh, this is so amazing.
382
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,300
This new framework, I will do
some refactoring and my code
383
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:41,200
will look even better.
And for me for multiple years,
384
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,100
right?
Because I started programming,
385
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:48,400
when I was 14, it was in 1995,
around that period of time.
386
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,700
So, previous Millennium, and I
spent a lot of time doing
387
00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:56,900
refactoring and enjoying.
Oh wow, this design is so
388
00:24:56,900 --> 00:24:59,800
beautiful.
We've got classes.
389
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:04,500
We've got abstraction layers.
Types of interfaces and
390
00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:08,700
inheritance between this, and
that's so great.
391
00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:14,200
But then what exact errors, what
impact it has on the products
392
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,000
and what impact our product has
on the lives of other people.
393
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:25,800
So the people that I work with
for well, like like my
394
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:31,600
technical, co-founder me, how we
are working together since 2000?
395
00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:35,000
9 2010 together.
And this is also an amazing
396
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,100
thing about him, that he's a
great technology, straight
397
00:25:37,100 --> 00:25:42,000
hacker, great, programmer, great
product guy, but he's always
398
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,000
thinking about how this will
impact the end-user.
399
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:47,500
Will this make their lives
better?
400
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,700
If our refactoring eventually
will make their lives better, if
401
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:54,400
you can clearly say yes, then
it's worth to doing it now but
402
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,200
if it's not something that will
I'd know if refactoring will be
403
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,900
able to much to deliver much
faster if it's like a little bit
404
00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:04,000
faster if we can Delay the
refactoring because it's not
405
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,800
slowing us down that much, maybe
we can postpone it and maybe we
406
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,700
can focus on delivering the real
value.
407
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:13,700
And this is what I respect what
I value in the technical people
408
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:17,400
that they can like, okay
Technologies is my my precious
409
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,600
thing but I can look Beyond it.
I can, I will seek for the
410
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:26,100
impacts on on the for the
end-users wonderful.
411
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:31,000
I also believe in, of course I
might technically guy as well.
412
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,800
But the main reason, I came up
with the idea of this podcast,
413
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,700
actually, is how we can do the
bridging between technique
414
00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:42,700
technology, in general and
businesses and Technical people
415
00:26:42,700 --> 00:26:45,500
to let them think about business
right now.
416
00:26:46,300 --> 00:26:49,700
Finally think I want to ask you
because you mentioned about you
417
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:52,000
know, the past and the way you
build.
418
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,600
Now the current startup you are
having have you used you know
419
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,000
the same concept of building
maybe because you wanted to see
420
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,400
how the business will like it or
not.
421
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:04,400
Not all the users.
Did you use the concept of
422
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:08,700
having a MVP like, minimal
viable product at the beginning
423
00:27:08,700 --> 00:27:11,500
and and then, you know, like
based on the feedback you
424
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:15,500
accelerated, is this what what
you used in this startup?
425
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:18,900
And the once before, this is
exactly what we use.
426
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:23,100
Sometimes you are unable to MVP
something because there is this
427
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,200
theory of Peter teal, right 0 to
1.
428
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,100
Yeah, sure.
If you read the book, yeah,
429
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:32,300
that's you cannot MVP everything
and Lean Startup is Sir, not an
430
00:27:32,300 --> 00:27:36,600
answer to everything and of
course, but then majority of
431
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,300
things can be MVP to to certain
extent.
432
00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:44,900
You can measure if people are
interested in this or that in my
433
00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:48,200
previous company.
When we were deciding, whether
434
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,700
we want to build a
subscription-based product for
435
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,800
air, Travelers, this is tricky,
right?
436
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,500
Because as an air traveler, you
rarely have loyalty towards
437
00:27:59,500 --> 00:28:01,400
particular Airline towards
particular.
438
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:04,500
Euler travel agency towards
particular, vendor at all.
439
00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:08,200
Because usually what you do is
you go to Skyscanner kayak and
440
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,800
who's just select to the
cheapest price.
441
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:15,300
And so, when we're thinking, uh,
can we at my previous company?
442
00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:18,200
Can we provide a subscription
based products for travelers?
443
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,700
What we did first is that we had
like, hey, we've got this
444
00:28:21,700 --> 00:28:25,900
product click here to subscribe
and actually when you subscribe
445
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:27,800
button, thank you, thank you for
your interest.
446
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:30,700
Leave your email with us and we
will be launching soon.
447
00:28:31,500 --> 00:28:34,000
Once we gathered to the proper
number of people that are
448
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:38,600
interested in this product, we
launched something, we invested
449
00:28:38,700 --> 00:28:41,800
bigger amount of time into
coding something, okay?
450
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,600
That's, that's a good
conversation.
451
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,300
I would say.
And I believe, we need to make a
452
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:52,500
maybe a full episode about the
two schools.
453
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:55,400
I would say, Peter, Thiel
School, 0, to 1.
454
00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:00,200
And, you know, the Lean Startup
school because yeah, I agree
455
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,100
with you.
Like it depends on The concept
456
00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:06,000
you are trying to do is because
zero to one is more, really?
457
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,300
Your product is very, very
Innovative.
458
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,000
You know, you have a huge Edge,
you know, like people to copy
459
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,300
your product.
They need maybe five years until
460
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:17,300
they can copy you.
So this is where you would be in
461
00:29:17,300 --> 00:29:20,400
the one later, right?
While in the Linea, you know,
462
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,800
that you have some competition
and then, you know, like, but
463
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,400
you keep iterating.
Also, the idea maybe you would
464
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,400
be also preventing the whole
idea, just to see how this will
465
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,900
work on.
We have one comment here.
466
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,600
Yes.
Because we might think that, oh,
467
00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:39,400
great innovators like Steve
Jobs, right?
468
00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:43,900
They are the 021 people.
I'm not sure if this is really
469
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:47,600
the case, I think that Steve
Jobs had this intuition that
470
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,700
allowed him to take a lot of the
input that others will need to
471
00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:55,600
have surveys, will need to have
a lot of input, right?
472
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,600
He had this intuition had this
good eye and ear for what the
473
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,700
customers need and this is what
Told him to build something
474
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:05,400
Innovative, something that
people want.
475
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,100
And if you are building a taught
in total isolation, right, if
476
00:30:08,100 --> 00:30:10,100
you are, oh I don't need to
listen.
477
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:14,500
Anyone, I just know.
I don't think one can succeed in
478
00:30:14,500 --> 00:30:17,200
the center.
Yeah, I believe he's not in the
479
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,100
0 to 1, I believe maybe.
Of course, from the outside
480
00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:24,900
looks like Steve Jobs, maybe
he's a zero to one guy, but I
481
00:30:24,900 --> 00:30:27,400
think he was iterating all the
times he was listening.
482
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:32,000
Yeah, maybe not in the best.
Exactly way that he Like because
483
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,500
of his nature.
But yeah, I believe he was
484
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:37,300
listening to the customers and
he was always Shifting the
485
00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:39,200
business, the way it needs to
go.
486
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,400
Yeah, yeah cup.
I really enjoyed this
487
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,100
conversation today.
I hope like whether you are
488
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:52,200
listening to this podcast or you
are watching it on Spotify or
489
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:56,800
YouTube you enjoyed it as well.
Thank you very much for joining
490
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,400
us today and we'll see you in a
next episode.
491
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,100
Thank you very much.
Thanks.
492
00:31:01,100 --> 00:31:02,400
Mike.
It was great to talk to you.
