#517 Execution Over Hype: Rob Matzkin on Raising Capital and Scaling Startups

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to the episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet today. I'm very pleased joining me, Rob Matzkin. Rob, thank you very much for being here with me today. And you know it's a pleasure to have you on the show the way I love to do it. [00:01:00] My audience know by now. I don't like to spend much time introducing people because I know for a fact that no one can introduce anyone better than themselves.

So I will leave the floor to Europe a little bit more about you, your journey, what you're currently up to, and then we can start the discussion from there. 

Robert: Well, thanks so much. You know, it's funny, I was just, uh, thinking about that today on my own podcast of how to reinvent the format that nobody wants to listen to.

All those different things. And I'll say this, right, uh, my background, I'm serial entrepreneur. I've had 16 different companies. Uh, I've failed quite a few times. I've also had multiple different exits, uh, these days. Uh, I do a lot in the consulting world. I help startups raise money, go product market fit.

Get to, you know, over, uh, a million dollars in MRR. Uh, things like that is really I specialize in. I also happen to do, uh, a purpose-driven summit for, uh, entrepreneurs and I'm known [00:02:00] across the globe as a hyper connector, and I do a lot in, in that space in sports, art, uh, entertainment and business opportunities.

Um. It wasn't always easy for me, and I, I grew up dyslexic and I didn't read till I was 10. Uh, so my entrepreneurship journey is because I see the world differently and, uh, yeah. So that's me in a nutshell. 

Mehmet: Great. Thank you again for, uh, being here with me today, Rob. Uh, of course, you, you, you mentioned multiple things that honestly attracted my attention to ask.

Okay. So being, you know, um. The one who loves to connect people, there must be kind of a mission or maybe something that's happened that pushed you that way to play the role of, of the super connector. 

Robert: No, uh, I'll, uh, no, I'll say this. I didn't know it was a superpower of mine until a few years ago. [00:03:00] And, um, I literally meet somebody.

I go, oh my God, you gotta meet this person. I just like, oh, have you? I didn't introduce to these people. Why? It's actually really simple. It, it, it's a little selfish. Why is it selfish? Because both people owe me one, because I never do a little bit, right? I'm being cheeky, but in the sense that I'm not gonna do a favor for somebody to make an intro.

I'm making an intro. 'cause it's mutually beneficial of course. And that, and that together is everybody rising tide raises all boats. And, uh, and, and I just love it. And the fact that I can do it, um. I do, and it's also hormetic, right? From a selfish perspective. Like there's a karma to it that, you know, uh, givers gain.

So yeah, that's why. 

Mehmet: Yeah. Cool. But, you know, you've been an entrepreneur yourself and now you know, you're helping other, uh, start startups also as well. Yeah. So [00:04:00] choosing, you know, also the, the, the. Tough road of entrepreneurship is not something easy. No. Especially knowing, you know, all the challenges that you had, but still you wanted to be there and now you want to help others in this.

I do. To me, to me this is, you know, comes from, from a passion to, to help other people. Mm-hmm. And this is why I told you, you know, like what could have pushed you over there, but. You know, regardless, I, I, I am, you know, kind of believe like you, that it's a mutual, uh, benefit for everyone. Yeah. But that comes with time.

Of course. Now. Tell me a little bit more about, you know, the, the, the, the, the startup that you have done before and how the journey was like, was it like, of course not all smooth, but probably, you know, there was like some key moments that also shaped the way you think today [00:05:00] about like other startups, like about other ventures and, you know, you share that with founder that might come to you and ask for help, some for advice also as well.

Robert: That was a huge question. 

Mehmet: Yes. Could you, 

Robert: could you gimme a little more bite-size? I think that was eight questions in one. 

Mehmet: Yeah. So ba basically, let's, let me start from here. So, so what I'm trying to say, Rob, like maybe some challenges which were unique to you, but. At the time where you were still in your own venture, but once you went out, you, you, you started to figure out that people don't see these challenges beforehand.

And then you start to tell them, Hey guys, like you need to take care of this. You need to make sure that you have done that. If you get my point. 

Robert: Yeah. Um, so I'll say this, right? Um.

I've had many different challenges, a across the board in [00:06:00] entrepreneurship, and I'm still running four companies right now, by the way. So I definitely don't think I'm, uh, no longer being an entrepreneur. Yeah. And, uh, I'm good son consulting in dozens. But, uh, with all that being said, um. At the time, maybe I thought all the things I was going through was unique, but the thing about entrepreneurship is everybody wants to think they're unique and they're special and nobody else has done this, and they're reinventing the wheel and they have this sexy new product.

And all that might be true, but it's all bs. No matter how new or innovative your product is, don't care if it's the most cutting edge ai, the most quantum this or quantum that. If you're going to have individuals, organizations, or governments buy it. Chances are somebody's gone through it and you don't need to reinvent the wheel.

You're not unique, you're not special. Your product might be special, but the situations and challenges you're going through aren't special. They're the [00:07:00] challenges that you go through through business. You know, my clients hire me because they realize that. That I've done it so many times that when you're in this position, you, uh, you need to get to a hundred KMRR and or you need to get to 10 KMRR, whatever it is for you, and you're having trouble finding your first client or you're having trouble finding your 10th client or your customer acquisitions, whatever those challenges are.

Somebody's gone through it. There's not a playbook, but there's things to do. There's questions to ask. There's a mentality to develop. Right, and the biggest thing that I've changed, which I think is to get to a point of wisdom on this question, is I used to go from a, a, a way of being of I know the answer and I'm smart enough to figure this out.

I'm the smartest person in the room to going, I don't know the answer. How could I test quickly and effectively to find out answers, not even answers, data to allow me to make educated [00:08:00] decisions versus guesses. 

Mehmet: Exactly. This is, you know, the point that I wanted you to explain and, and, um, you know, sorry, sometime I ask maybe kind of loaded questions and I, and you know, I'm happy you, you ask me to open them up a little bit slowly also as well.

Yeah. Now, one of the things, you know, talking about startups, uh, and I know you guide companies also in, in, in the journey of scaling and, you know, capital raising, um. I know it's a cliche question, but to you being, you know, ready for that moment to say that, okay, now I am going to meet investors to take the company to the next phase.

What usually founders miss here in order to, to take that next step? 

Robert: Everything.[00:09:00] 

Um, it's either one of two things. They have delusional grandeur or they're like, way too, uh, way, way, way too early. Uh, so by the way, are you picking up, you're not picking up too much background noise, but, um, no, I, without being cheeky. Right? So there's really two different phases, right? People aren't actually ready and they think they're ready.

Or they probably waited too long and, and are holding on too much equity, but at the end of the day, to be investor ready, right? It, it's such a loaded question because there's many different types of investors. There's friends and family, there's pre-seed, there's c and a. Friends and family do invest in you because they know you.

That's it, 

Mehmet: right? 

Robert: Pre-seed, they might know you, but they like the idea. They have no data seed. There's some sort of data. You have something built, but they trust you. They trust the idea and they trust the data. [00:10:00] Series A, they trust the data. It's up and to the right. More money means more success, right? But the reason I say all this, to answer this question is know what stage you're in.

Everybody's delusional that they think they're in a series A or seed or bridge to series A. You're not, probably you're pre-seed. The problem with being pre-seed and having no data and having nothing there. Is after Silicon Valley Banks collapsed two years or two and a half years ago, is nobody's in pre-seed anymore?

Everybody says they're pre-seed, but they're really seed. We need data. So the biggest thing people to do to get ready for fundraising if you're not going friends and family is how do you empirically show that there's something there? That, you know, even a signup list, even people, some sort of indication that says this is gonna be really successful.

I found a market that loves this. Something. 

Mehmet: Rob, because you mentioned this, this, do you [00:11:00] think that part of the issue problem is, you know, I don't want to blame all the founders, some. Some, some of them we could blame them. 

Robert: Let's call 'em out by name. Let's let, let's, let's call, just call John and Jack and whoever and Jim.

Yeah. Who, 

Mehmet: whoever. And Jose, they, they, they think more transactional than strategic in a sense that. Okay. I just need, you know, I believe and to your point, like, hey, like I, I have achieved, you know, the impossible and now it's time for me to go and raise whatever this, you know, the, the, the round name is C, pre series A, series A, and they think about this relationship with investors as transactional.

Just for the sake that they raise money. Maybe they have a nice PR versus thinking about it. Okay. Like, let's, let's really look at the business. Why do [00:12:00] we really, really to, to, to, to raise actually the fund and who are the possible, you know, investor that we should talk to. I, I see this kind of a gap that founders we can, or we cannot, I'm not sure what you would say a blame.

Them or not, because, you know, they want to also do things fast. Like I've seen like founders who, who, who want like to, you know, to, to take these giant steps and skip some of the of the things just because, you know, they're saying technology is moving fast, competition is moving fast, and I need to move fast also as well.

Well, 

Robert: yeah, it all comes from stress and fear. Right. It all comes from stress and fear of stress. That they don't have the time and fear that they're, that they don't raise today. They're not gonna have the resources to win. Right? And what they ignore because they're in a stress and fear response is really [00:13:00] simple.

That investors don't give a shit about you. They care about their returns. Your job is to let them like you know you and trust you, but that's not why they're gonna give you money. Only if they're your friends and family around, will that be the case? A seed investor is gonna give you money because they're gonna get a hundred times return.

Show them that. Right. The investment rounds, it's all about your valuation is risk versus reward, right? Right. How risky are you and how much reward are they gonna get? You're gonna be a billion dollar idea and your valuation is $10 million. Okay. They could see a hundred x. Cool. They'll invest and they don't think, and they think it's almost a guarantee that you're gonna get to a billion.

They agree with that thesis. If they agree with that, they'll invest it. Really? Sometimes is that simple? But everybody loses the fact, no, you gotta put my idea, I gotta do this. The, okay. [00:14:00] An investor needs to like you know you and trust you. Trust that you're not so risky. And that their bet to get a hundred x more to a thousand x more is almost a short thing.

And if they believe that, they'll probably invest. And if they don't, they probably won't. 

Mehmet: Beyond showing, you know, investors that, you know what they're saying, what, you know, the, the, they can prove, you know, the, that they are worth, you know, that, that evaluation, um. Is it like all the attraction? Is it like anything they can do beyond just showing some traction?

Um, well, what, what, like what about like vision? What about like, you know, I, I don't know, like what are the other things that uh, you know, you see, you know, founders or like executives, uh, team leaders, you know, in, in companies raising do hear wrongly that actually [00:15:00] they should come more prepared when they talk to the investors.

Robert: So what it's uh, very clear you're an engineer by background. 

Mehmet: Yes. 

Robert: Uh, 'cause you're looking for very tactical, detailed que answers based on, uh, non-specific parameters. So it's nearly impossible for me to, to answer that question. And I don't have the answer for you, but I'll, I'll say this, right? I spoken in, I speak in general gen generalities specifically because I don't know specifics.

And the specifics always change, right? But the best way that you could come prepared. Is come with data, come with. So what are the characteristics that an investors really gonna look for, right beyond what I just said? It's, are you coachable? Will their voice matter? Right? Are you gonna be a good, trusted steward of their money?

These things nobody thinks about or talks about, right? Because it really comes down to, do I trust you with my money to execute [00:16:00] the shit out of this? Right. Prove that. Right. Just a story. Everybody misses that, right? Yeah. Come with this data or that data, but don't lie. Be truthful. Tell a great story, but, and you know, and be coachable.

I think those are the things that I could contribute to this conversation that most people won't say. And if somebody wants really tactical answers, they'll pick up the phone and call me. And I'll give you tactics based on your situation, what's going on, because as much as I said, nobody's unique based on where you're at in your situation, different advice applies.

Mehmet: Uh, 

Robert: I know that's not the answer. I know that's not the answer you're looking for, but that's the, the best I can give you. 

Mehmet: No. So what, what I try to do, because you, you were right, like I come from an engineering background, so I try to. As much as I can immerse myself in [00:17:00] place of someone who might be, you know, wondering about this now.

But, but 

Robert: the, the, the other thing meme, like I could go, I, I have a webinar. It's an hour and a half just on how to build a presentation deck, right? It's like, and there's like 80 points to it, so it's like. I, I don't know how to give you a, a, a soundbite in 10 seconds on, on that too. 

Mehmet: Yeah. But you know, like, just, I'm asking, there may be.

Yeah, there's 80 points, let's say, but out of these 80 there will be like some priorities like must have, like, okay, all of them there must have, but there must be like super priority on that. Rob, this is what I was trying to say. Yeah, don't, 

Robert: yeah, yeah. Don't lie or manipulate and be honest and truthful and coachable while you're doing it is like that's the secret sauce, that nobody does that, that that is actually it.

It's not tech, it's not tactical or it's not technical. It's tactical. Percent, you know, it's who you been percent. Yeah, 

Mehmet: hundred percent. Now this is [00:18:00] why I ask you, like, uh, you know, if, if I go back to my question, so I said like, the mistake is they do, they think tactical, they don't think strategy in, in, in a, like a long term vision.

Now the other thing, you, you, you repeated the word data a lot of times. Yeah. So, so, so this data. Right without it, actually, they're talking nothing because they might claim a lot of things. They might say like, we have this, we have that, but here is the data that they need to prepare. And this is actually one of the answers I was looking for, Rob, and you, you, you answered my question.

My way of doing it. I give little bit hard time to my guests sometimes. Um. But you know, like talking about the data, so I want to, to stop on the data. Are there like some, let's call them early signals that, [00:19:00] you know, the data is not enough. Maybe they have some data, but it's not enough for them to go and talk seriously to investor.

And they are trustworthy. Don't get you well 

Robert: there. There is no such thing as too early or too late. It's just how you spin it. Right? And it's a sliding scale and it's like. Talk to people. Talk to people as quick as you want. It's all about matter of time, but your data's gonna be more or less, more impressive or less impressive.

And quite frankly, you'll never have enough in data for an investor, right? If they're gonna invest in their data and data alone, you know, you could have a hundred percent growth month on month and an investor be like, still come up with a reason not to invest. The data isn't everything, but it shows the right investor.

Enough 'cause what is the data about? It's about de-risking the investment. So the more you de-risk the investment, the higher your odds of success are. Right? And the [00:20:00] more you de-risk it, the more investors are gonna be available to you in that risk category. Which is why I say there's a difference between pre-seed and seed, because pre-seed is hyper risky, seed is a lot less risky, probably in order, in order of magnitude less.

Which is why it's a, it's a matter of getting into different realm, and then when you're in that realm, you will have a range of people that your data is your ticket of entry, and now you're in this room, okay? The data is now irrelevant because you're at the right match. Right now it's about everything else.

It's your entry ticket to the bar. Everything's like dating, raising money. It's like dating. Right. Really sales, it's like dating, right? Right. Just to be you. You have the battle is just getting in the right room, and now it's about convincing the sexy girl in the room or whatever your flavor is, [00:21:00] that you're the right person.

But the dad is the entry ticket, 

Mehmet: right? So. How much, because I know, like also you, you, you work with, uh, startups and, and companies in, in that field. How much you think, um, you know, AI and, and the hype that AI created, uh, contributed in creating kind of a confusion? When it comes to, you know, taking the decision of what is our next step, whether that is fundraising, whether that is like scaling, you know, in, in other places, introducing a new set of services, products, um, how AI affected, affected this, 

Robert: uh.

How AI affected, what exactly, 

Mehmet: how affected, you know, [00:22:00] the, the, the clarity of, you know, the, the, the executives in that company who are on the verse maybe to fundraise, maybe to scale the company into new geographies. So, so the, the AI did something for startups and even for big companies, how, you know, it, you saw it affecting their decisions.

Robert: Oh, I think it completely confused everybody's decision because now they just, just started talking all this malarkey about AI and how they're an AI company, when in fact they're not. And most companies that are building ais or building IP on infrastructure that they don't necessarily own, um, which is problematic 'cause they might, may or may not own their data.

But that's a whole tangent. But, so I think there's two camps with ai, right? There's the AI sensationalist. And the, the AI doubters, right. And I don't think either are really, really correct. I think as of right now, the way I [00:23:00] see things, it's an an enablement tool, right? It's an efficiency tool, right? It's game changing in the way, and the fourth industrial revolution is game changing in the way that we operate.

I think there are. A lot less pure play AI companies out there than we realize. I think every company is gonna need to be enabled by it and supported by it and utilize it, but in many ways, from an investor perspective, now it's not, how do I say this? If you say we're an AI enabled company, you better be.

What, what are you doing right now if you're not right? But if you say you're an AI company, well you better have something really unique and special with a moat to be there, right? So it's a double-edged sword is my point [00:24:00] when it comes to fundraising, right? Like I have clients that are truly building out, cutting edge ais that are gonna completely, their goal is to completely upend medicine, right?

And, and healthcare. And the accuracy and the results that it's delivering is truly something special. And they are an AI company, but it still comes down to, in my mind, how well they could execute and earn money. Right? Because ultimately the, the, the core IP at some point will be commoditized. 

Mehmet: So what was, what, what.

Is the moat becoming currently, Rob, in your opinion, 

Robert: what's the moat becoming? I don't know. That's what's hard. That's what's scary right now is that we don't necessarily have the moats that we used to have. Right. So the moat in my mind from a business perspective is access to clients is the real, the business side really being, [00:25:00] you know, the relationships that you have with your clients, the live near clients.

Because a lot of times if you're for a client to shift to a different product, that product's gonna be 10 x better, right? Mm-hmm. So it's about moving quick and acquiring your segment of the market. That's gonna be your mo, and it's not gonna be the pure, the idea of the 2010s having a pure technological mode that nobody else can ip, that nobody else could create the special sauce.

Even for the last five, 10 years, that's really been a myth that investors are looking for. You know, um, but now it's about executing fast with as few resources as you possibly can to get as fur further as you can. And the other thing in my mind, fundraising, if you could raise $10 million in three months, go for it.

But the idea of spending nine months on a fundraise right now and get doing it all or nothing, fundraise, I think is, I don't, [00:26:00] isn't very strategic. I'm advising my clients in many ways. What could we close in two months? What amount could we close in two months? And then what amount, what amount could we close in two months after that?

And doing smaller, quicker rounds, because that aren't necessarily the amount of money they're gonna last 18 months, but that we could deploy in six months because that's the money we need now. But this idea of raising money and then. Not having to raise money for a year and then raising money again, always, always a fallacy.

You're always raising money, but it, it, it's really, I think, more of a constant thing now 'cause of the speed that we're, we're, we're at and the speed of AI and the amount of, like, what it's really doing is how quickly we move doesn't allow fundraising, hasn't caught up to it 'cause it's such a long process.

So we need to hack that. That's, that's the, the challenge tonight. It's changed. 

Mehmet: Let me shift gears and shift this. To the other side of the table [00:27:00] from investor's perspective, and I know you run a a, a fund also as well, Rob. Um, what should we be looking at currently? Like of course everyone says say ai. Yeah, but AI is a lot of things.

I did couple of you know. I would say quick searches and researches. So there's a lot of talk, for example now about like verticalized ai, like ai, which focus on certain verticals rather than, you know, anything as you mentioned before, that can be commoditized. Someone is talking about, you know, the underlaying, uh, uh, I would say infrastructure that empowers the AI somehow.

Maybe not necessarily the LLMs, anything that works to make the LLM works better, right? So investors today, how they should be evaluating [00:28:00] startup that comes to them. 

Robert: So. I'm not, so I'll say this. My fun thesis, my investment thesis is, I know I'm not smart enough to, to actually answer that question, but my fun thesis is I invest in government contract or I invest in government companies in deep tech before they get their first government contract.

Based on what I could assess, the likelihood of them getting a government contract is based on my knowledge. That's what I invest in. So it's a very binary thing for me. Um. So I'm investing off of a slightly different ca uh, criteria. Now, let me, with, with that caveat being said, what I invest in, I'm a business guy, right?

So I'm looking at the numbers, how they're acquiring their clients, how effectively they're gonna be at that. You know, red flags for me is, oh, I'll figure that out when I get the money. Or I'll hire that person, or, you know, hard pass for me and stuff like that. Right? [00:29:00] It's do they have the team, the knowledge, the expertise, the strategy to already do that?

That's what I'm looking for, right? Because the product, I'm also looking, where are they at with product market fit? Do I believe that they have actual market for this product that will love it? Right? And most people get confused by that product. Market fit is you have this product and people are like, take my money, take it, charge me three times as much.

Take my money, take it. I want this. I need to have, I have to have this. Take it. Right. Do they have that? If they have that, cool, how long will they have that for? Will anybody come and usurp them? Will they be able to execute this? How quickly could all those things, right? But that's the way I, I, I, I look at it, unless from a, a technical perspective, I do my technical research, but it's more of a check box versus it's a yes no.

Versus the binary, as you said. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Mehmet: Right. So I know also when you work with, um, you know, the, the company that, uh, uh, you know, you, you, you support and you [00:30:00] assist. So you focus also with them little bit on, you know, the, the leadership, uh, part, uh, of, of this journey. Mm-hmm. So

I know for a fact that it's, it's, it's really. Tough times, right? Because things, as we mentioned, moving fast and we know, like sometimes, and we mentioned a little bit before, uh, people rarely admit you know, that they're wrong. So how you advise your clients to change this to, to start admitting, you know, that.

That we need, we need help. We, we need to change what we are doing. Like how do you deal with that? 

Robert: Yeah. I mean, it's being authentic, right? It's being coachable. Right. It's not one, one thing, it's a personal growth journey, is what that takes. Right. Uh, my [00:31:00] journey's taken 15 something years to be, uh, vulnerable and authentic.

Right. And letting go of my ego, right? But being the way I conduct, the way I get it outta people is I'm vulnerable and trustworthy myself, and people are reciprocate, right? But, um. It depends. A lot of times the world doesn't show us that we could always talk into our fears and we could be vulnerable like that to to investors or not.

It might be weakness, it might not. It's, it's a, it's a hard place to be, but finding that Goldilocks and, and having those conversations, it's kinda what I navigate with my clients, right. To make sure we're successful. 

Mehmet: Other than this, any. Of course you mentioned like you, I, this is something you, you, you said at the beginning, which I also, I don't believe in playbooks.

Right. So I believe like in, in adopting what works for us, but mm-hmm. Um, one of the things that I noticed, you know, talking to a lot of founders and [00:32:00] talking to, you know, um, a lot of my also, you know, guests on the podcast, um. There's something that happens. I'm not sure if you have had this before, Rob yourself or you've seen it.

Where I start as a, uh, as an executive to ignore even my health. I start to ignore even my, you know, sanity just to show that, hey, I'm a high performer. I need to prove to people, you know, like I can still do it. Mm-hmm. And they get the burn out. Right. Why they should avoid this. 

Robert: Why they should, they avoid their mental health, their physical health, every, it's miserable.

It's a miserable way of being to be, to be burnt out. Right? And burn to burnout, I think is many different things, right? It's a very loaded term, but burnout just means you're overwhelmed, you're stressed, you're not happy, right? You don't have balance, right? You're not smiling as much. [00:33:00] Right? My friends, my family, they know when I'm burnt out.

They know when I'm stressed. They know when I'm happy, when I'm, when I'm happy, I'm. My life is richer. I'm goofy, I'm jovial, I'm joking around. Right. When I'm burnt out, I'm over this. Yeah, 

Mehmet: yeah. Sorry Rob. But you know, they, they, they tell you some, I, I've seen people, they tell you, you know, I'm still passionate about what I'm doing.

I'm still, you know, like I want to keep doing this. But it's like that they need someone to give them the ready to check. Yes. Like you, you, you're passionate, but you need also. To go and, I don't know, do some rituals practice. I, I, I don't know, like Right. So, so, so they, I mean, there's, there's many tactical 

Robert: thing Yeah.

There's many tactical things, how to solve burnout. But ultimately, if you're, like you're saying, if you're structurally broken with it, right? It's like Ariana Huffington talked up. About this a lot, about 10 years ago, right? There's this whole myth or allure of like sleeping as little as possible and working as hard as you can and showing and putting in the hours, right?

I I, I actually [00:34:00] just wrote a LinkedIn post about this that I'll probably post in the next week or two yesterday, and it's like,

I want, wanna, I predetermined when I start my work week, how long I'm gonna work, how much time I'm gonna put into work. I predetermined it. My goal that week is to fit in as much output as I can in that allotted time, and I put boundaries on that, and I put guideposts on that because that's how I run a marathon.

If I work until I drop or work, literally work until I drop. It's not sustainable. It's a spread. Right? I could do that for a week or two or three. It's not sustainable. My health. My health, my happiness. It'll deteriorate. Right. You know, um, like Elon breaks some mold on this, but he's literally a robot and he's not human, literally.

Right. And I don't know if people [00:35:00] really want his life. Right. They might think they do, but I don't think they do. Right. And, um, so for the most of us, like, you know. For us mere mortals, I think the best thing we could do is have a rich life that we focus on the day to day, because that's what it is, that's what it's about.

Mehmet: Right? Yeah. I'm not sure like how people, you know, I didn't see someone like, uh, you know, I don't know someone who works like, uh, like Elon, but, uh, I, if, if I don't know, if I see someone one, one day, I, I would, I would like to ask. You know how they would be able to feel fulfillment because yeah, sometimes they tell you, yeah, but I love what I do.

I love working hard, but you know, there's some boundaries and limits, right? 

Robert: But I was being cute when I said Elon was a robot. Elon is I on the spectrum tremendously? It's [00:36:00] not debatable. He's admitted. He said such, right? So he literally doesn't function. And see the world. Like most of us, you know, I think a lot of people around.

So it's not exactly the pillar to be looking at. And what we wanna look at is how do we have this rich life that is plentiful that, you know, if we take a step back, I think a lot of entrepreneurs get caught up in the sense that I'll make my money in five years, then I'll retire and one day someday I'll get there and I need to sprint and suck it up to do it.

And guess what? I did it for 10 years. And I did pretty well, but it didn't come up and I didn't retire. And I'm still at it and I see my friends and they're like, I'm in founder mode now. I'm working 16 hour days. I'm traveling the world. I'm on, you know, and I'm like, and they're just like running around the world for investment and everything else, which is great.

But then I applaud them to it and I, you know, wish the best, but I don't. [00:37:00] I think that's sustainable for life. I know my career is entrepreneurship and fundraising and all this stuff. I'm not, I, I, I personally can't do that. I applaud you if you're in your twenties and you want to do that, but I'm telling you there's also a better way.

Mehmet: Um, when we are younger, yeah. We, we, we claim that we, we can do a lot of things and then we hit, uh, you know, the wall and we get the reality that yeah, we, we need to take the step back and understand that, you know, some, some stuff is doable, some stuff not doable. But to your point on the spectrum, there are people who.

Are capable of doing this. And I always tell people like, this is why Rob, I tell people like, you know, you can have a role model, right? But don't say I want to become like this person. Yeah. Maybe you can utilize [00:38:00] some of, you know, the, the tips and tricks that they would give you, but you would never be the same person.

My theory is, my theory is, you know. Like you're tied to the place you are geography, you're tied also to the time you're living in as well. So you cannot like be someone else. You can learn from them, but you cannot be the same person, but 

Robert: exactly. And here's the biggest challenge with all of it. Any of these individuals that we're reading about, I guarantee they have a publicist.

I guarantee that you're not actually seeing the inside story. You're seeing the story that somebody wants you to read, and we're not actually having empirical data to learn from. We're learning from an embellished, make believe story of what they want you to see.

Mehmet: And is it like, is it like, you know what I see just, you know, the distilled cup of coffee, but I don't [00:39:00] know like how it was roasted and where it was coming from, right? 

Robert: Yeah. But it's like, and then you make believe everything else, and it's like, that's not actually how that coffee was made. 

Mehmet: W why, why, and who, who's doing this?

Rob, 

Robert: who everyone, there isn't a public figure out there that is telling you how it really is, 

Mehmet: but do do, do they do it on purpose or is it just like, because every, every public figure have done it before. 

Robert: Okay. Okay. Let's go on Instagram right now. Right now. Go. Go find your favorite person and you tell me whether that question is valid or not.

Whether they're doing it on purpose. Are they showing you their real life? It's human nature. To show you the sunshine and roses, not the vulnerability and the ugly 

Mehmet: true 

Robert: period. But people are 

Mehmet: taking, but people are taking this bait. 

Robert: Yeah, but it's entertainment. It's not education, it's not wisdom. It's not guidance of how to live your [00:40:00] life.

It's the sunshine and roses. I stopped posting because it's toxic for me and toxic for everybody else. I don't wanna, like, if I post all my greatest moments of my life on Insta 'cause that's what people want to see. Amazing. But then my life isn't the greatest moments. My life is my life. It's the ups and the downs of I don't show you the downs.

The uglies, the borings, this, the that. You can't actually learn from me. You can't actually see any of it. Right? Because all you're seeing is the highlights. But I don't tell people as much anymore that I live in Miami Beach. I live on the ocean. I take to lunch breaks. I go kite surf right in the summer.

Right now I'm in Brazil. I'm kite surfing every day. When I get done with work, I'll go kite surf, I'll go kite surf for an hour and a half. Everybody hears Brazil and they go, oh, you're living the life. You're not working. You must be like working an hour a day. And you're like retired and sitting with your drinking like mimosas on the beach one.

I don't even drink [00:41:00] two. I. I do it for my sport night at work or 40 to 50 hour work week, but I do it remote and I do it great. But if I, if all you hear is you're in Brazil kite surfing, you don't hear anything else. Right? And it's the same thing with all these public figures. You hear that and you're like, I want to do that and I want that life.

Everybody's like, here's another example. Everybody wants to jet set our life. If you are literally have to own a private jet to get everywhere you need to be and your schedule is that tight. And your friends are only in certain places in the world, and you would literally have to get on a jet seven hours privately to get to them, and you're running around the world and that's the only way you could manage your life.

Is that really a life that you want? Yeah. It's gonna be glamorous, but I've, I spent two years raising a fund. I've been in front of some of the most amazing, extraordinary humans. Some of the wealthiest humans on this planet. They still put their plants legs on one leg at a time. [00:42:00] Right, and I'll tell you this, they're not necessarily the most happy individuals or fulfilled individuals.

So to look at what they're posting and what their publicist is posting as gospels, what to learn from, I would implore you not to. 

Mehmet: I agree. And I have, I want to add one more thing like regard. You mentioned like Instagram and their personal life also, like there are like another set of some. Um, you know, public figures that actually they started it from, let's say the sixth floor, right?

And they show you, hey, like, you know, you have to do this and you have to do that to be successful. And they are actually talking to the people who are on the first floor, right? So they, they don't tell them that actually they started from a good place. To do something convincing them that actually, you know, like, yeah, we struggled with, but we never saw their struggle.

And we know they're [00:43:00] coming from, you know, banking investment backgrounds. We know that they are coming from, from good jobs. And then they tell you, Hey, like, yeah, we left the, we hated the corporate job, and we became an entrepreneur. Give me a break. You did start from scratch. I, I like, this is my own personal view on it.

Trump. 

Robert: Oh, a a hundred percent right. There's a reason that they're doing it. 

Mehmet: Yeah. 

Robert: Some people, I don't know why. Some people I do. And

what am I getting? Uh, you know, I, I, I have so many thoughts with that, that there's, there's also a difference between training and coaching. Mm-hmm. Somebody has a 12 step process to walk you through. I'd be wary of that. Right. It's great, but it's not unique to you. Coaching. It's like, how do I work with you to get you somewhere?

I do both. Right? But you want the individualized thing and a lot of the people on Instagram or the news, right? The news is very [00:44:00] much hollowed out and segments that they do. Anything you read on business in the news, it's written by a PR team and it's written by a company to sell you something to manipulate you.

Mehmet: There. 

Robert: It really is. So there's always this angle, the point I think like this, I see it and I think it's great, but the that's where you're learning and trying to educate yourself. News is more, in reality, news today is more entertainment than anything else. I think the biggest challenge we have is how to stay current on what's really happening in our world without the sensationalization and the entertainment portion of.

Mehmet: Abs. Absolutely. Absolutely. I hundred percent agree with you, Rob, on this. Rob, tell me a little bit more about the summit, the bond summit. Like, uh, how did it start it and uh, yeah. You know, like, um, when does happen and, uh, who are like the people who usually join? 

Robert: Yeah, so I started actually [00:45:00] selfishly in the sense that I wanted to be around more individuals that were purpose-driven, truly up to something and really.

Had a great heart that wanted to help everybody else around them too. And you know, I've spoken a lot about the Bond summit recently, and what it really comes down to for me is how do we get behind each other to really support each other? Not network, not do something for each other, but how do we elevate each other?

And the whole purpose of the summit is bring the most amazing people in the room that I wanna spend time with. Who elevate me and how do I elevate them with the right content, with the right way of looking at the world. So our members are really entrepreneurs up to change. And change. Could be in tech and business in life, but really up to transforming themselves and their, their businesses.

We do it twice a year, or next one's in Atlanta in October. And um, yeah, it's a great time. 

Mehmet: Great. Um, you know. I, I will be honest, [00:46:00] I love when my guests challenged me, Rob, and you did today because I feel more, um, you know, grounded, to be honest with you, and I'm so happy, you know, like you, you counter, uh, the questions to me also sometimes I, I, no, no, I, and I'm serious about it.

I'm transparent about it because I love dialogues and I like, you know, to be, you know, to, to of. Us talking to each other. Yeah. You know, not to challenge in a sense. Like, I will beat you, you'll beat me. No. Yeah. I, I think the discussion, uh, also sparks, you know, um, curiosity. Like this is all always my, my opinion, not only for me.

At least I'm not sure about you, but also for others. So thank you for cha for challenging me today. Rob, I, I loved, you know, talking to you finally before we, we, we close where people can get in touch if they want to work with you also as well. The best place to find you. I know. Not Instagram for sure.

Robert: Yeah, I am on Instagram. But, uh, I'm private. Yeah. But, uh, Rob [00:47:00] Matkin at LinkedIn. Rob Matkin at uh, gmail, rob matkin.com. Uh, you google me, you'll find me. Would love to support you in any of the endeavors that we spoke about today. But really, uh, appreciate you having me on me and, uh, and challenging me as well.

Mehmet: Thanks so much. Always my pleasure. Thank you so much, Rob. And you know, giving me the time. I know like also the schedule, uh, get busy sometimes and you know, you made it uh, today. Um, this is how I end my episode. This is for my audience. Uh, all the links that Rob mentioned, they will be in the show also. You don't have to look for them.

And as usual, if you just discovered this podcast by luck. As I say, always thank you for passing by. Give me a favor, if you didn't subscribe yet, subscribe, share it with your friends and colleagues. What I'm trying to do, speaking with people like Rob, to spark curiosity, to get people to think like [00:48:00] what's our purpose?

What can we do next? And of course, sometimes we talk something informative, sometimes we talk topics like today, uh, which are debatable with Rob. So I hope. You know, you enjoyed it and if you are one of the people who keeps coming again and again, thank you very much for your support. Thank you for taking the show this year really to our next level.

Uh, we are having a moment where we are trending in multiple, uh. Countries at the same time who are in the top 200 podcast charts across multiple countries. I know, like I've said it multiple times, but the thing is, we are adding list of countries every week. So thank you very much. Wherever you are listening or watching, uh, this podcast, and as I say, always stay tuned for new episode very soon.

Thank you. Bye-bye.