#514 The Longevity Economy: Jon Sabes on Healthspan, Wealthspan, and Aging Well

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Mehmet: Hello, and welcome back to new episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet today. I'm very pleased. Joining me today, Jon Sabes founder, CEO of Longevity FP Jon. The way I love to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves. You know, because I have a theory, no one can introduce [00:01:00] someone else better than themselves.

So without further ado, I will leave the floor to you, but of course, as maybe the audience will figure it out, we're gonna talk about longevity in details. But again, Jon, thank you for being here, and I will leave the intro for you. 

Jon: Hey, Mehmet, thanks for having me. It's great to be here. Uh, Jon Sabes, CEO, serial entrepreneur, financial services focused as well as longevity.

Uh, I kind of backed myself into the whole field of longevity. And, uh, have built a career in and around it, but with a particular focus on the implications that longevity has to the financial services industry, the products, the strategies, the technology that supports it in, in a number of respects. And I'm sure we'll get into those details here today.

Mehmet: Absolutely. And thanks again, Jon, for taking the time. Now, maybe kind of traditional question, you know, this, um. Merge between longevity and financial [00:02:00] services. So what was the main, um, reason, and you know, how this idea came to connect Biology, health and wealth management together? 

Jon: Yeah. Well, again, like, like most entrepreneurs, it's a journey.

Um, I really started in the life insurance industry, which, you know, it's just this little financial services industry, all of which is predicated around longevity. Um, how it, how it predicts longevity, how it builds products around it, and what those products mean to individuals. And so, um, that's really where I start, started my career and my focus and it.

It dovetailed into this, uh, I'll call being self-taught around molecular biomarkers of health and aging, and ultimately to commercialize, uh, those, uh, biomarkers, uh, for the industry to develop, uh, in my view, sort of next gen underwriting protocols that the industry really needs, uh, to move itself forward.

Um, [00:03:00] so that's sort of where those two intersect, right? This entire industry that's been built. In fact, if you think about any financial product or service from a consumer's perspective, it's all predicated on your longevity profile. You do something completely different at 30 or 40 than you're gonna do at 60 or 70.

And so every aspect of the financial product and service industry touches the longevity profile of the consumers who, who buy them. And so that's sort of where I'm at today, which is I'm working on products, um, and the implication of those products, particularly around extended lifespans and having enough money, uh, to, um, you know, live 20, 30, even more years, uh, post-retirement, post yearning, earning years.

Mehmet: You know, Jon, I think this is, uh, a must, uh, discuss topic because you know, sometime we hear it even from motivational speakers when they say, okay, [00:04:00] like, you're doing all this all your life, and then you're gonna say one day, one day I will retire. And then you figure out that you don't have much left, right?

So, um, because. People think about it only from financial terms, maybe. Oh, like when I will retire, I will have just, I'm, you know, making the number out of my head. Now I'll have like, let's say $1 million in, in, uh, in my bank account. Uh, how we, we should, you know, integrate longevity science into this conversation.

Jon: Yeah, it's a, it's a real, um, conundrum that has, uh, occurred and it has profound implications around our society and our, uh, economies as this, uh, at least in the United States, we have this massive aging demographic. Uh, we call it Peak 65, here in the United States where we're gonna, we're having more.

[00:05:00] Individuals turning 65 this year in the history of the United States. And this will have profound implications, um, to our economy and to the individuals. At the same time. A shift occurred over the last 50 years where most people, um, rely, we're able to rely on corporate pensions and the government, uh, for, uh, financial security during old age.

Um, those two things have changed dramatically. Um, today in the United States, there's roughly 50, 15 1 5% of individuals eligible for some form of corporate pension. They say only around 10% of individuals are are taking that. Uh, and, and at the same time, uh, the we in, we developed this thing called the self-directed retirement, uh, plan where we.

Uh, corporations shedded the responsibility of financial security over longevity to individuals. And individuals are supposed to [00:06:00] save, uh, to have enough money to, um, fund their retirement, uh, security. And it turns out that's a really difficult thing to do both to have the discipline to a do it. So you have a million dollars, uh, in fact the, the, this.

The experts, the research says you need about 1.5, 1.6 million is the, is the magic number. And, and at the same time, um, you have this very uncertain. Thing called life expectancy, which we know is, has expanded, uh, uh, significantly. Um, and that creates just an entirely challenging financial puzzle. You know, do you have to fund your retirement for 10 years or is it gonna be 25 or 35 or longer?

And, and that is, uh, quite a different calculation and a very difficult one, if not impossible for most people to make. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. And I think, you know, you mentioned it's in the United [00:07:00] States, but you know, I, I did some research and I think it's more or less a global, um, you know, we can apply it globally.

Let's, let me put it this way. Yeah. And yeah, so, so this is, there is a gap always between, you know, what, uh, and you work in that, uh, domain also yourself, Jon. So what, what, for example, a financial advisor might be doing calculations for you and what. You end up doing, uh, so, so, you know, like these things are eye-opener.

This is why I'm, I'm, I'm telling you like, you know, what we're discussing today. I think it's, it's, uh, it's, it's very important. Um, so how, how, how do you, you know, you, you interpret it's, put it this way, um. All the researchers that are happening today about avoid aging and, you know, getting us like, uh, to, to be what we call it sometime [00:08:00] biohacking.

So we look like always young and so on. So is there a, I don't know how to call it, but is there like maybe a new school where this retirement saving things would be? Just as a lifestyle that actually we should start at it like at a younger age and assuming that we're gonna live long enough, so we should have this.

Both running simultaneously from a young age that I'm gonna live long and at the same time, I, I need to have good financial habits, which is of course, like saving, investing in good portfolios and all this. Are you seeing like also kind of an, uh, a merge in, in this direction as well? 

Jon: Uh, I think there's an awareness or, or, um, of that at least, uh, there are certain individuals who are bringing that awareness.

I'm certainly one of them. I wrote a book called Healthy Wealthy Longevity, the Good Things in [00:09:00] Life for as long as possible. And, and certainly I, that's exactly what I do. I connect the idea between good health. Um, and investing in that health, the self-care, uh, that comes with taking care of yourself through lifestyle over years and decades with financial prosperity.

And, uh, both of these are desperately needed to have a good, long life. Um, the saying, there's a saying that says, you know, it's expensive to be poor, um, because if you're poor, you, you, your interest rates are higher. Everything seems to cost more. The same goes with health. It's very expensive to be unhealthy.

And so as we think of aging, you know, we, what we really wanna do is stave off chronic disease, expe extend what we call our health span. Uh, lifespan is certainly extending, so people are living much, much longer than, uh. They, they used to, when Social Security was [00:10:00] enacted in the United States, the average life expectancy was 61 years of age, which meant the government expected less than half of the individuals covered under Social Security would reach the age of 65.

Today, that life expectancy has moved to 77, and if you've made it to 65. Um, there's more than a a, a good chance you're gonna live 20 or 30 more years, and so you're gonna hit 80, you're gonna hit 90, and having, uh, the financial security, um, and, and the means to live a vital life is, is of the utmost importance for your health and, and for your health span.

So I think people. You need to really think about their health span in terms of lifespan. Um, and I've written about that. I, I call it my, um, health, my health account. So just like you're investing in your retirement account and you have a surplus, um, this, there's an idea that you can have a surplus of, [00:11:00] of, of youthful energy, um, in terms of biological aging.

And I write a lot about that. I was, um. Uh, kind of one of the leaders in recognizing the implications of biological aging using what's called the epigenetic clock. And that's what I was commercializing for the life insurance industry, for new underwriting protocols. And, and so when, when I did the test, I was, you know, biologically, uh, 10 years younger than I was chronologically.

And so you can think about that younger biological age as a surplus account, which I can draw upon over, over my lifetime, right? To extend this health span to meet my lifespan. And what I like to think about it as sort of the movie Thelma and Louise. You know, there's this scene in this movie, Thelma and Louise, where Thelma Louise drive their car right off the cliff and you really, what you wanna do is drive your health span right off the cliff into your lifespan so that those last few days of, of your life are [00:12:00] spent in good health and being vi, being vital, and hopefully being around those you love and not being broke 

Mehmet: well.

So Jon, maybe some people will say, okay. You know, Jon and Meme are discussing longevity and you know, we hear a lot about longevity. Um, so there is a lot of methods. There is a lot of things we can, we can do. Uh, and I know for a fact was also I research a lot before. It's, it depends on multiple factors, but there must be some common ground for all of us as humans, um, that we should start with these basics.

So we get, you know, the longevity. And there's also what I was just mentioning, where you start to, to, to tune your body and tune, you know, your, your, um, lifestyle. Um. To get this, you know, uh, longevity. But let's start with the basics, Jon. Yeah. So, [00:13:00] so what are the basics of longevity and what are like, you know, some of the, I would not call them secret.

It's not like secrets. I know, but I mean, the basics that everyone you think should know, so they have at least, you know, what, what takes, uh, to, to, to have, um, the ability to live longer. 

Jon: Sure. Well, you mentioned, uh, biohacking and, um, I'm not a biohacker and I'm not, I'm not a proponent of biohacking. You know, and, and to your point, um, I think what the longevity research tells us is that the basics, getting the basics right in terms of lifestyle, having a healthy.

Lifestyle, orientating your lifestyle towards those things that are responsible for 80% of your longevity outcomes. And so that's gonna come from something other than a supplement or a biohack or a pill. And so what are those things And, and when we think about. You know, a, a healthy longevity lifestyle. I like to point folks to the Blue Zones, [00:14:00] um, and the research that Dan Butner has done.

That's a great place for folks to get information on that and, um, understand what healthy aging looks like. And, and really it comes down to the, to the basics, as you say, these are basics of all humanity. Which is number one, eating wisely. Food is medicine. Okay? What you put in this body is what results in manifesting who you are.

Uh, that is lifestyle, and that is gene expression, and that is epigenetics. And if you wanna know more about that, read my book. But if you, the next is movement. Sorry, my light is doing something funny here. Movement. Movement is medicine as well. So ex exercise and or movement. And movement of any kind. So if we eat wisely and we move more, and in fact I like to say move all the time, you know, those are your two primary inputs for healthy longevity.

The, the areas that I. Started to focus in [00:15:00] on, I've always been moving a lot. I've always eaten cleanly, but the areas that I've focused more on lately and some of the learnings that I took away from, uh, the folks from Blue Zones were purpose. You know, what is my purpose and my connections with others? You know, it turns out, uh, these, uh, folks that come from Blue Zones, which are five geographic.

Dispersions located throughout the world, all had common lifestyle traits. And one of the main things that they really all practiced was connections with others. Uh, living with purpose, eating wisely with a plant slant. And they moved constantly, uh, throughout the day. And those are your. Those are your, your areas to, to focus.

And the last thing I'll say is with respect to all of those is what we wanna do is set our environment up to get those behaviors to be the default behaviors. And the example I like to use is your pantry. You know, if your pantry is chock full of salty, [00:16:00] sugary sweets, how can you fault yourself for, you know.

Eating them. I love, I love sugar and salt as much as anyone, but how, and high fat. So how can you fault yourself? So, so set that environment up in a way that will help those better behaviors be the default behaviors. And you can do that in every aspect in movement and eating wisely and connecting with others and living with purpose.

You can all, you can shape those default environmental situations that tilt you towards a better default behavior. 

Mehmet: Got you. Now, Jon, on this, um, maybe, and I told you like before we started the recording, some of the audience are, uh, entrepreneurs, founders, and they might say, Hey, look like we understand all this, but by default we are always under stress.

Um, you know, my investors are, are on my neck all the time. Uh, I'm stressed because, you know, I'm not able to deliver what I promised my customers to do. So there's a lot, mainly stress. This is what I hear from [00:17:00] people, mainly stress and, you know, like, uh, lack of sleep and all this. As entrepreneurs, how do you think they can balance between what it takes to be an entrepreneur and you are an entrepreneur yourself, Jon?

So, um. So how we can do this balance between all, you know, these, uh, you know, hundreds and maybe thousands of things that we are thinking about at the same time, all the obstacles we might face and the stress that it does and the other things also. And at the same time, thinking. Staying healthy thinking, not even about longevity, just how I can survive till tomorrow.

Jon: I hear you and, and I appreciate that. Um, you know, it, it is really tough, uh, to, to do this as an entrepreneur. And so I'm very, I've lived it. Uh, I, I often, I mean, I'm starting my third company right now and I think about, you know, managing those same pressures today. [00:18:00] And, uh, I wonder how I, how did I do this before?

I've done, you know, five Ironmans, I've done multiple ultra events. I, I put so much time and energy into my movement sometimes, you know, like, like a lot of entrepreneurs and obsessive compulsive in a way that can be unhealthy. But I, I like to say, you can go all in on your health. You know, that's really the message.

And what I would say is it is an antidote. It's an antidote to the stress. You, it may, it may seem impossible. You may, you may think you don't have the time. Um, but I'm gonna tell you right now, it is the antidote and it is one of the key solutions to your stressors, to finding the solutions to the problems that are challenging you as an entrepreneur.

And so, what I would just simply say is. Um, force yourself to change that behavior, whether it's setting the alarm just an hour earlier and saying, I'm gonna go walk today. I'm gonna go run [00:19:00] to, you're gonna do some movement outside. And what I would suggest to you is, uh, and if you need, if you want silence, do silence.

If you want to. Uh, fill your brain with positive, uh, psychology, positive emotional content, do that, put your favorite podcast on and move outside. And I can almost guarantee you that that will be the place in which you will start to find solutions to the challenges that confront you daily. And I can also almost guarantee you that your body.

Your mind will be in a better position throughout the day to confront and deal with the challenges that are sure to come your way. So while it's easy to kind of put it off, um, I would just simply say that it's almost a requirement as an entrepreneur to take care of this body and this mind, and, and people used to always say, well, what are you training for next?

And I would just simply say, I've been training for life. It's not, I had no, no. Yeah, I had big goal, big events and things [00:20:00] that I was doing, but I really, I wasn't a biohacker. I'm still not, I didn't have a watt meter on my bike. I don't have a, a heart rate monitor. When I run, I, I just do it because I felt better afterwards.

And so you wanna get into that positive reinforcement loop. You're gonna, it's gonna be, it's gonna be hard, it's gonna be challenging, but there's a positive reinforcement loop on the other side of that as an entrepreneur. I can guarantee you we'll provide the fuel and the solutions and, and, and it is the, it is the thing you are missing and, and need to, to bring and elevate your career and your business to the next level.

Mehmet: Absolutely. You know, like on. On the point you just mentioned about putting the alarm and waking up like maybe one hour earlier. I can give an example from myself, like four years, you know, I was giving excuses. I don't have time. Uh, I come home late and I'm tired. [00:21:00] Uh, I have to reach to office, or I have to drop my daughter to school.

You know, every excuse that everyone may probably knows. 

Jon: Yeah. And 

Mehmet: then one day, and I said, okay. What happens if I wake up one hour earlier, right? Simple question, and I find out that I don't have any excuse anymore. Um, you know, just, I started to wake up one hour earlier and all the excuses were gone.

Nothing, nothing left, and I'm happy since almost now, five years. It was the pandemic time. By, by the way, I don't have this excuse because ev even if I'm traveling, I wake up still early if even I'm on different time zone. No problem. You know, my, my, I know that my body will suffer maybe the first day, but next day I would be fine.

So a hundred percent. Now the other thing we are talking about, you know, exercising and moving and all this, but I know Jon, and maybe this is from your second book, you know, there's another, um, you know, or like other techniques. For feeling the happiness. [00:22:00] Right. And the, um, and one of them is journaling.

And I know, like you, you, you, you focus a lot on journaling and I'm a big believer in this. But from your perspective, and you know, of course people can go and read the book, but what you can tell us about journaling and why it's such an important thing to do. 

Jon: Yeah. Um, before we move on, I just, one other point, 'cause you brought, brought it up, which is sleep and the challenges of sleep.

Mm-hmm. Um, the only thing I, and it, this was unscripted by the way, right? So to the listeners out there, I just simply suggested waking up an hour earlier and here we go. You know, and that's just what happens when you're out there and meeting, meeting great people, you know, it's sort of like-mindedness and, and you know, to hear that result for you is, is fabulous.

Um, I think the same goes for journaling, you know, which is sort of, as you say, it is. It probably for me anyways, is the single most, other than movement, [00:23:00] it's probably the single most important practice I can do to keep. My mind focused on what I want out of life. Um, and, and that's sort of it. You need to keep your mind.

I like to say we're all in, in a battle for our own intention and attention, so. You have all these competing forces for your attention, and you need to keep your intention on what you want. And if you don't do that, you are going to be moved by what others want from you. So journaling is a way in which.

You can keep focused on what you want to achieve, keep your mind focused on what you wanna achieve, and you have to remind your mind. You can't just, you know, you can't just say, well, this is what I want, and kind of go on and do other stuff. You have to remind your subconscious mind to continually stay focused on what you want to solve, because that [00:24:00] sub.

Is always at work in the background solving for the challenges that you, that your conscious mind is dealing with in, in the day. So journaling is a way to do that. And specifically it's prompt journaling. I, I talk about prompt journaling. I, I learned about prompt journaling almost a decade ago. I was listening to Tim Ferriss and his podcast, and he was talking about the five minute journal.

I was like, oh, what is this? This thing called prompt journaling. It's different than just sort of narrative journaling. You get a couple of prompts and you write some quick responses. It was called the Five Minute Journal. I went to get the journal, but it was. It was a, it was like a year's worth of journaling.

It was a, you know, two inch book that I was gonna, I was traveling all the time. And, uh, so I went about creating my own prompt journal. Uh, I did it for myself, no other reason than myself. I, I, you know, made it, I copied it, I brought it to Kinko's, and, and over time I've. Refined this prompt [00:25:00] journaling. Um, and I started handing them out to others.

And, uh, I've just gotten tremendous feedback from others who have gotten my prompt journal and used it. So I, I've made it available, I incorporated it, I talk about it in, in terms of self-mastery in my book, healthy, wealthy Longevity. And one of the primary tools is prompt journaling, and I've made my prompt journals either there's a sample page in the back, so you can just copy that and use it, or you can buy them off my website now, uh, Jon sais.com.

Um, but it's just simply prompted journaling and it's a way to keep your mind focused on what. Important, uh, to you and to keep that subconscious mind always at work to solve the problems that you know are confronting you and are in the way of you achieving your ultimate objectives in life. 

Mehmet: Absolutely.

You know, like journaling is, um, as you said before, Jon, like of course it's not scripted, [00:26:00] you know, audience knows by now that, uh, we keep it spontaneous and yeah, what Jon mentioned is actually something that really, uh, happened to me and we didn't like plan this before. To your point, uh, yeah, I was talking about journaling and yeah, I, um.

I listened to the same, uh, podcast from Tim Ferris and I, I even saw it, uh, I can't remember which book, but, 'cause I read like almost all his books. So he, he, he talked about it in, uh, uh, in one of his books. And it's like also kind of an eye-opener for me. Uh, I, I took my own version similar to what you did, but yeah, like, uh, journaling, it, it let me feel Jon like.

Uh, and I read it from different, yeah, from, from, this is, 

Jon: this is my little journal here. This is my little daily. Yeah. Just sorry to interrupt. Yeah. But that, you know, so I wanted this little guy, you know this, this thing, this is 30 entries, right? So it's a month's worth, and it sits in my back pocket. It can go in my best.

It's my buddy, it's my self coach, right? It's always here with [00:27:00] me and it's saying, Hey, remember what was important to you. Remember what you wanted to do. Don't get, don't get. Knocked off course. 

Mehmet: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, it's very important because one of the things that I discovered, which books, a lot of books talk about it also as well, which you mentioned the distractions that we have.

During the day, especially with smartphone on all the time, notifications, social media, scrolling, all this, and you know, like maybe you should be giving the tips. Sorry Jon, but you know, something also worked for me, again regarding the time. It doesn't, you know, when you do the journey, people think that I have to close the door.

I gotta sit like two hours in silence and think. You know, I do it literally sometime in just five minutes. Yeah. And I find the time, every time I want to journal, like, uh, as you said, like it's just to make it a habit. And once you make it a habit, you, for you, you forget [00:28:00] that actually you're journaling you, it becomes like second nature for you.

A hundred percent on this now. If someone is, is listening to us, you know, like how they might think, okay, like we are talking about, you know, uh, taking care of health, taking care of happiness also as well. Um. But you know, like I'm, I'm, I'm having this, uh, you know, eagerness to, to go conquer the world. And, you know, I, I have, you know, to, to do anything that it takes and really, I can't find the time.

I, I have to be ambitious. I have to have this power. I don't have time for all this, you know, nonsense. Maybe they would call it. Um, in my opinion, I've seen people like this, but I've seen them. Hitting a very bad time where they crush. From your perspective, Jon, uh, keep denying the importance of these.

What could be the risks behind [00:29:00] it? Although, like someone would be ambitious, that they are very focused. What would happen if they ignore, you know, these, these, uh, habits, good habits? 

Jon: Well, it's, it's like anything in life. If you ignore, um. Root causes of of problems. The problems manifest and develop and they develop over time.

They come slowly and they're, it's almost imperceptible. So whether it's your health or your finances or your career, it's imperative that you find the time. Prioritize the self care in all these core areas, uh, and, and do it because if you don't, you are, you are leaving exposure, um, in a way that will manifest itself over time into your life.

And it's gonna come out in a way that ultimately, whatever goals you were working so hard [00:30:00] and whatever, um, uh. All of that, all of that energy, uh, will create, uh, cavities and holes in, in pockets of your life that manifest, that can be so devastating that it can take out all, all of the good, all of the joy that you otherwise would have created.

So, you know, I like to talk about imagining your older self. Um. You know, imagine your 80-year-old self, your 90-year-old self. We don't think of that person, uh, often enough. But that person is someone you know quite well. 'cause it's you and it will be the summation of all of your thoughts and all of your activities and all of your relationships over your entire lifetime.

And when you reach that place, you're, you want to be happy, you want to be fulfilled, and so you need to. Take the steps today. You know, when you're 80 or 90, you're too old. It's too late. And so imagine that person, your older [00:31:00] self, and giving you a nice big hug and a smile and a glowing warmth and just, and to say, thank you for doing these things that are so important to me here in this place and at this time, um, because you, you're vulnerable and you'll need your younger self to have done that.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Jon, one thing which came just to my mind, and maybe we talked a little bit about it at the beginning, but someone who might be listening to us now, he's saying, okay guys, I understand, you know, I'm doing all this. Um, but that means I have, you know, I, I will live longer. That means I have to work more, uh, I have to worry more.

And the reason I'm asking you this, Jon, because what I discovered with time and maybe late, but I always say late is better than never. Um. So do you think also we have a wrong education or like wrong knowledge, which was shared to [00:32:00] us by our parents, by school, by society, about this relation, you know, and, and the fear, right?

So this feeling of fear that our will not find I will be in need. So do you think we should do something to educate at least the. Younger generation, uh, that guys like, don't think about, you know, work as something you're doing just for the sake of money and, you know, like, uh, you, you have to, to, to keep working, to, to earn what you, or like, let's say to live the life you, you, you deserve.

How we can change this because what personally, what I have discovered, we were taught. By our parents, by our schools, by the society. Many things wrong. And one of them is this mentality of tying things together and having the fear, the fear of, oh, I gonna work more. I will, uh, no one will, will be able to take care of me if I'm, uh, if I'm also, and now I have [00:33:00] to, to work hard.

How we can change this, Jon. 

Jon: Yeah, that's a, that's a great, great question. It's a big challenge. Um, there's a lot of programming that we have to, um, do for ourselves to get our mind right, and, and how we, how we get that mind right is certainly a challenge. We'll go back to journaling and what's important, um, most of the, the most important things in your life.

Uh, really aren't about money. Uh, so that's the good news. Um, you know, it really comes down to relationships, connecting with others, having loved ones around you, um, that, that they, it really doesn't take money to have those, it. Takes, uh, kindness, um, it takes interest in others and not being a narcissist.

So, so what I would say is, you know, there's, there's a way in which to approach this, and again, I'll go back to our friends at the Blue Zones. These Blue Zone folks lived the longest, they had the least incidence of chronic disease of populations that [00:34:00] were studied, and yet they were the measure most measurably happiest people on earth.

True. And, and yet these, these places, uh, they were financially poor. And, and so what it tells us, right, is that, you know, wealth as I describe it, isn't about money. I mean, there is financial wealth and I like to say you have to have money in this land of milk and honey. Um, but beyond that, beyond having your needs, uh, taken care of, then it's just wants, you know, and comparison.

Is the thief of all joy, right? And so you just, you have to focus on you. Um, and you need to focus on, again, those things that are really important over the long haul, which is again, your self care of who you are physically and who you are emotionally, and those that are around you. And are those who are around you, are they positive influences on life that give you energy?

That [00:35:00] sustain helps sustain you. Um, that's the the group you want to surround yourself with. And hey, there's nothing wrong with working like hell. I work like hell. I, I believe in, that's where I get my satisfaction. It's where I get my connection. It's where I get purpose. So there's nothing wrong with that inherently.

Um, it's just simply to recognize it. But don't do that. In the absence of the rest, um, because we are larger than our career, we are larger than our, our checkbook. And, uh, it's a mistake to think otherwise. And I can almost guarantee you if you don't. Uh, take care of this, like weeds in the garden, you know, it will be overrun and you will one day find yourself like, how did I end up living in this weedy mess?

And, um, so it's incumbent on us all to be very thoughtful in all material aspects of our life. Be more holistic and recognize you can compound in all of those areas just like you can compound in your career and or your checking account. So [00:36:00] take steps early. It's never too late, but. But, but take those, those steps.

It's baby steps every, it's just baby steps. 

Mehmet: Absolutely, and maybe the audience will notice today, I'm giving a lot of examples from myself, but because what you're mentioning, Jon, is just, I want to convey the message that really it is. Um, someone asked me, you know, sometime ago. Uh, why you're not worried, you know, uh, like losing financially or something because we're discussing something.

I live in Dubai, and Dubai is known to be an expensive place, right? So I said, look, I know one thing, which is I'm proud of what I did about relationships, that if something wrong happens, I can pick up the phone and at least I can find five people that I can talk to, and I know that they will be able to somehow.

Help me. Like, not even give me money, don't get me wrong, but I mean, they can give me the support that I need to stand up again. And I said like, [00:37:00] this is just for me, it's a, the peace of mind that I have in my mind. So I'm not worried about, you know, losing wealth or, you know. Before when I was even working in as a, you know, a full-time job.

So I said, once I put this mentality in my mind that yeah, I have to build these strong relationships, I don't have to worry. Of course we worry about other things, but I mean from this perspective specifically, so a hundred percent. I agree with you, Jon. I can relate to, to myself a lot. Um, do you want to say something?

Jon: No, I'm good. 

Mehmet: Yeah. Okay. So, uh, you know, one thing, which is kind of, because we, we, we are on a, uh, CTO show and we talk about technology Of course. And you've, you've been in this domain for quite some time, uh, Jon, so. I know like the longevity economy is, is, is growing fast across all markets. What do you, what do you think is the biggest opportunity, like if we want to define, you [00:38:00] know, a big, big, uh, blue ocean right.

Opportunity, what that would be? 

Jon: Wow. You know, this, uh, aging demographic is a once in a generation, uh, thing. The, uh, occurrence, it's never gonna happen again. I mean, especially falling birth rates. Um, so this aging economy, Europe is ahead of us in many regards. Uh, right. So you just have this massive aging economy.

I think anything you are really. Any business that is attending to the needs of an aging demographic stands to do extremely well over the next several decades. I mean, it's just what's, what's, what's the saying? A rising tide, uh, rises all boat, all boats rise with a rising tide. Something to that effect.

And that's really what what you have happening, you know, in the financial services industry, uh, where I'm focused on, it's all about retirement financial planning, bringing innovative. New [00:39:00] products that better deal with the, um, uncertainties around volatile markets and ensuring people have, uh, income, uh, as they grow old.

Um, so, so, and, and in this regard, right, you know, AI and financial planning I think is just going to be upended frankly. I mean, when you have. You know, let's say financial, a AI agents that are able to ingest all of your, in, you know, personal financial information and have all of the, you know, financial products and strategies available to, to it, to bring you a new financial plan.

It's just, I think, gonna be a. An absolute game changer in the financial planning industry. Um, for example, uh, in the, in the care services industry and in the senior housing services industry. I mean, the, the needs that are, uh, coming are just absolutely untold. So there's, there are [00:40:00] massive, uh, changes, uh, underway.

Um, that will, that are just, just beginning to manifest themselves in, in many aspects of this economy. So be aware, um, be cognizant of what your services are doing and how you can stylize you know, your, and, and or separate yourself by attending to this aging, uh, economy. I like to say. I mean, longevity when I've been, was started in the space.

I mean, it was, you wouldn't, you wouldn't even hear about it. It was some, it was a word we were using, but it certainly wasn't in the social dialogue. And now it's just, it's everywhere. And I think the next phase of this will be the implications that this aging economy has on, on the, uh, sorry, these aging demographic has on the economies at large.

And, and therein lies both the challenge and the opportunity. 

Mehmet: Because you mentioned AI and you mentioned, you know, the relation with the financial services. Do you think also we would have, or like. I'm, [00:41:00] maybe someone is working on this also, so because when the wearables started to come, you know, uh, so we have sensors in our bodies, right?

Like at least the heart rate and some other thing. I know like you don't use it when you are running. You mentioned this, but I mean, when, when we get older, if we, or like maybe even on at a younger age, if we can monitor some of our body metrics, do you think this will help also to plan the financial, um, you know, way.

Like, based on maybe what diseases we might get in the future. I, I don't know, like, I'm just like making things up in my mind where I'm mixing technology with longevity, with, uh, with, with the financial service, which is mainly about, you know, retirement. So do you see this also kind of conversions, uh, with the help of AI, wearable technology, uh, taking, you know, the industry in that direction also as well?

Jon: Yeah, I mean, let's take one step back. I think ai, [00:42:00] um, and I, I witnessed this firsthand in, in the commercialization of these molecular biomarkers of health and aging. These are epigenetic biomarkers where we were measuring patterns of what we call DNA methylation along the epigenome, and we needed to use machine learning to analyze.

Literally, you know, hundreds of thousands of data points. And then compare that right to health, uh, records to find these relevant patterns. Um, and what we're seeing now, right, with, uh, low cost, uh, DNA sequencing and, and these tools in conjunction with the ai, uh, emergence really of next gen ai. Real, we were using automated machine learning and now we're in the sort of next phase of this is we're gonna see precision medicines, uh, across.

You know, all aspects of healthcare that are going to extend longevity, period straight up. I mean, what, what I think the best thing you can do for yourself is keep yourself in good health and alive for the next year or five years. Because what will certainly, [00:43:00] uh, come to the fruition are, are next gen therapies, uh, that extend and improve our health span and lifespan.

When it comes to, to financial products and financial services and our own awareness, if you will, of our own, I'll call mortality, uh, trend or path. Certainly there's, there's just incredible, uh, new, new techniques. And when I wear my, my Apple watch and I go for a run or my bike, I'm, I'm now amazed I ooh, Mac, oh, average heart rate of 1 33 for three hours.

That like, wow. So, I mean, you know, these biosensors and, and or even, you know, biological sampling is going to provide all sorts of feedback loops that, you know, will hope, hopefully motivate us if, if you're one of these gamier of I am to a degree, and, and I like to say, look, if, if you like to gamify it, use Strava, use all these tools, whatever it is you're into.

Just 'cause I don't do it. I, I, I, whatever works for you is the right thing. And so if it, if it [00:44:00] helps you to motivate to get out and get going, then by all means, like it's really fun and interesting and it is informative. What I will say is the challenge of all of that when it comes to longevity and financial planning is it isn't the average, right?

It's the, it's the individual. What we're re what the real challenge with financial planning is outliers. You know, we're, we're, uh, when we do actuarial studies and we do group studies, and when we talk about all these trends, it's a group of a thousand. It's a, we're studying groups of a million people.

We're, we're studying groups. It's an N of a thousand. It's an n of 1 million to come up with these insights. The problem is you're an N of one. In any study, there are outliers and so you don't know. I mean, the, the only thing I can tell the actuaries in a group can certainly tell you how many people are likely to be alive at this age and this [00:45:00] age and this age.

The problem is they can't tell you who they can tell you. The odds are what's not you, the smoker and the, the, the heavy drinker. But the reality is, is. They don't know. And uh, someone who lives to 105 is an outlier. The longest person known, documented to be alive, smoked until she was over a hundred years of age.

And so, so these are outliers and this is our challenge when it comes to financial planning. And, and developing new ways and products and tools to think about this. And so it's a real interesting, um, uh, journey that we're all gonna be on. And I just like to say, I love to be alive right now to witness this, this profound change and, and, and be an active participant in it.

And hopefully, you know, create some oppor, some, some, some things that make it better. 

Mehmet: A hundred percent. And you know, for all what we are seeing for me, like as a person who work in technology all his career, like, uh, I'll say, yeah, what a time to be alive. And I feel lucky to be alive. A hundred [00:46:00] percent. Um, Jon, as we almost coming to an end, like any final words, any final things you want to share and where people can find out more?

Jon: Sure, uh, folks can find me. Uh, I'm on all the social media platforms, Jon JON SaaS, SAB as in boy, ES. That's my website, Jon saas.com. You can get the prompt journal there if you're interested. The book, healthy, wealthy Longevity, the Good Things in Life for as long as possible. Amazon, um, engage with me. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm about, you know.

I'm 58 years old. I'm, I'm a self, you know, realized entrepreneur and, and everything I'm talking about. I practice the only, and like you, my, Matt, you know, you're, you're talking about this from experience, so this is not theoretical. I mean, my, my, the thing that drives me nuts when I read about books, even not financial planning or happiness or all this, is, it feels like, you know, when it comes from it, oftentimes it comes from folks.

Almost removed from reality because [00:47:00] they're not, they don't feel like you and me. I'm like, how can Oprah talk to me about happiness when she's got, you know, $8 billion in the bank account? You know, like, how can I think about happiness and, and, and macro cognition. When my bills are, are, are unpaid and, and my kid is yelling at me like, so, so all I would say is I've had all the challenges.

I've lived through all of the things that, um, uh, many of you are probably listened. I'm, I'm certainly less than perfect. And, uh, so what we're talking about is real life experience and what. What has, uh, worked for us and is based on, uh, practice and experience and research. So, um, tune in, engage, uh, I'm here to, uh, support any, anyone and everyone on their journey.

Mehmet: Great. Thank you so much, Jon. Of course, the links will be in, in the show notes Indeed. And in the description if they're watching this. Uh, just as a final small comment on what you mentioned, [00:48:00] like, um, I think I shared something couple of months ago. Um. Eh, because people were asking me, what do you think about, you know, these people that appear all of a sudden and they start to tell you, you know, about like the success and you see them like, you know, the, the way of talking.

I say, guys, you know, we are lucky because living in the age of the internet, right? So, so our history is. Literally archived, and we can go back in time anytime we want. And then you find out like some of these people that, as you mentioned, who comes and write these books and they tell you, you know, all these lessons, you go and search without naming anyone.

Uh, and then you find out, oh, like actually they were born in a wealthy family. Uh, they used to work in a. Investment firm or like a bank. Uh, and they start to give, you know, people about like how to start small businesses and how to stop. I don't know what I tell people, like, okay, go, just do simple things.

Just go and search. You know, really. And AI is making things even much, much easier now. [00:49:00] So to your point, Jon, and you know, like I really appreciate, you know, the spontaneous way my podcast is all about being spontaneous and, you know, going with the flow. I really enjoyed the discussion with you today, Jon, and thank you for taking the time with Be to be with me here today.

And as I said, the links will be in the show notes. So this is, uh, how usually I end my episodes. This is for the audience. Uh, if you just discovered us. Thank you for passing by. I hope you enjoyed if you did, so give me a small favor, subscribe and share this podcast with your friend and colleagues as you are, you know, noticing, we're trying to motivate people, we're trying to educate people.

We're trying to, you know, give back also, uh, to, to, to the. Everyone who wants to learn. And if you are one of the people who keeps coming again and again, thank you very, very, very, very much for all the support. And I'm saying it this way because really this year, and I'm repeating it since beginning of [00:50:00] this year, your support is taking this podcast to a whole new level.

Just today on the type of recording, just for the transparency, we are recording on the 26th of August. Um. I just figured out that the podcast did it again to a new country in the top 200, uh, apple Podcast chart. This cannot happen to be in 6, 7, 8, 9 countries. Trending cannot happen by me. 'cause of all your support.

'cause you're, you know, listening, you're sharing the episodes and of course, because of all my guests, including you, Jon. So thank you very, very, very much, a big thank you for all. I'm really grateful for all the support and as I say, always. Stay tuned for a new episode very soon. Thank you. Bye-bye.