#511 Why Latin America Is Becoming the Go-To Talent Hub for Global Startups

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet today. I'm very pleased joining me, Lean Cartelli from Argentina, and this is the first time I have a guest from Argentine. Thank you very much, Lean, for being here with me today. You are the CEO [00:01:00] of Lana talent. I don't like to steal from my guest.

You know, spotlight a lot. So this is why I keep it to them to introduce themselves. Tell us a more about you, your background, your journey, and then we're gonna take it from there. Maybe the audience guest by now, we're gonna talk about something related to talent, which is talent acquisition and everything related to it.

So the floor is usually Leanne. 

Leandro: Thank you Maed. First of all, thank you for having me. Super, super excited to be here. Um, and happy to be the first one from Argentina, maybe the first of many. And, uh, just to introduce myself, um, like you said, I've been in talent acquisition my entire career, more than 15 years.

Um, I would say my first 15 years. Were, um, always in corporate com, you know, corporate world, right? So Accenture, for example, I led talent acquisition regionally, globally. Um, I moved into the pharma industry, uh, leading talent acquisition for Latin America as well, um, you know, in technology [00:02:00] companies like, which is sort of your Uber Eats or DoorDash type company in Latin America.

Um, so, you know, and I've always focused on. Everything that relates to talent attraction, right? Um, execution, strategy, um, something that I've always enjoyed. Um, and about two years ago I moved to the other side of the counter. So I was doing in-house LinkedIn, and then I moved to the staffing side. Um, and, um, I founded Lana Talent, which is basically a, a recruiting and staffing business where I say what we want to do is.

Bring the expertise, the value, the quality of service that, um, you know, you typically receive from the best companies in the world like KornFerry, Spencer Stewart, uh, but for smaller businesses, right? For SMBs, for startups, um, which typically. Um, won't be able to afford 'em, you know, won't be able to, to afford contrary.

Uh, but we've worked with those companies, in those companies so we can do that as well. Um, and really [00:03:00] trying to provide access to the best talent. Um, I will say that our core expertise is, um, and very biased here, right? I'm from Argentina. Our core expertise is building remote teams in Latin America, um, for businesses, you know, in the us.

In Canada, in Europe, right? There's a huge cost benefit there. Um, amazing talent. Um, you know, and, and it's become more and more common, especially after COVID, right? And so our sweet spot is, you know, we help small businesses, um, especially small businesses that don't know how to hire here, um, and how to go about that.

We help them take care of all of that. 

Mehmet: That's fantastic. Introduction. Lean, and again, thank you for being with, uh, with me here today. Question, which is kind of traditional. What attracted you to this space? It's not an easy space because you, you need to talk to a lot of people. You need to deal with different type of people also as well.

So what was like the motivation behind [00:04:00] choosing this career? 

Leandro: Yeah, it's, by the way, it's definitely not easy. I always say ta, especially while we do talent acquisition. Talent needs are always urgent, right? I mean, you probably hire for your teams, you know, others maybe listening have hired. And when you need someone in your team, it's super urgent, right?

But then, you know, what we see is that, um, the investment of time for the process and, you know. Um, you know, really being in, invested in making it work. Um, we, we typically don't see that from, you know, from business leaders. They wanted, you know, ta, hr, you guys have to do it. Uh, it urgent, but we're not invested there.

But that's just a side. I'm sorry, a side comment. I'm digressing. Um, how I got into this, uh, by chance actually. I, um, I did a student exchange program in the Netherlands when I was 19. Uh, I learned Dutch. I unfortunately don't speak Dutch anymore, but I used to speak Dutch and um, you know, it was about 2008 Accenture.

[00:05:00] Was, um, you know, was starting their, um, operations hub in Argentina to provide all types of services for the world. They were starting a recruiting team in Argentina for the Netherlands, and I think was probably one of the five people in the country that spoke that back then, and I got hired there. Um, and I fell in love with it.

I first fell in love with, you know, the fact that TA is very process driven, very, um, you know, very results oriented. Um, so thinking about optimizing, using technology, um, to run more effective and efficient processes. And after some time, I also fell in love with the fact that you have a true impact in people's life, right?

I mean, you impact the business significantly, but you impact people's lives significantly. And, and that's what I ended up loving about it. 

Mehmet: That's great. I, I love these stories. That's why I asked this question, although like it's kind of a cliche now, something, uh, Lean when it comes to talent acquisition.

Um, so [00:06:00] I think I didn't ask this question much and I, even if I did before, with people who work in the same field, I like to take different opinions. Now, talent acquisition is one important function. Whether it's a big company, small company startup. Um, now why do you think, you know, especially for, you mentioned one of the reasons which they, they don't know how to do it right other than this, why companies they would come to Lean or any other talent acquisition company to deal with rather than going themselves and searching because, you know.

Sometimes it's not, depending on the size of the company, it's more on the maybe personality of the hiring manager that they like to go and do the stuff by their, by themselves and all this. But why it is better. And I know you, you tell me I'm biased, but No, I'm sure like you can give us like some logical answers why they [00:07:00] have to come to you, Lean, rather than going themselves and trying to find the talents.

Leandro: Yeah, so, so I think there's a couple of reasons, right? And what I would say is. It's not always advisable to go with an external partner, right. Sometimes you shouldn't do that. Uh, and I'm always very transparent with this, right? So, um, when I led for some of the companies I mentioned, um, we had our own team.

And the benefit of having individuals at work in your company, um, and go out for, you know, to to do recruiting is that they understand, uh, the culture of the business, the nuances of the need of a leader. Um, where the company's at, they're able to better communicate, uh, typically, you know, um, the, the value proposition.

Um, so there, there's a lot of reasons why, um, recruiting should be done in-house, right? But there's a lot of different reasons or moments when it shouldn't. One is, um, you know, and I'm a business leader myself, right? I, I run my own business, um, [00:08:00] especially for smaller businesses. Sometimes you just don't have the time.

Right. Um, so, you know, when you're dealing with 10,000 things, um, you need to grow your revenue. You need to, uh, be close to your clients. You need to manage finances and marketing and pretty much everything in between. Um. You going out to the market and doing recruiting takes time if you want to do it right.

Um, you know, if you don't, if you just want to go out, post a role, see what comes in the traditional post and pray strategy. You know, you just post a show on LinkedIn, pray that something will come in, do it. You know, 1, 2, 3 interviews, whatever it may be. Make a call after talking to a handful of candidates and them, um, you know, you're probably not going to be making the right decision.

And we know how impactful it is to find the right talent. So one of the biggest reasons, especially for small businesses, is time, right? If you want to do it right and you understand the impact it has, you have to invest the time. And sometimes, unfortunately, you know, [00:09:00] business leaders don't have it. That's number one.

If you're a big company, you probably have the ability to build your TA team, right? And so it's easier to have. Your own function within than you know that, that having to invest your own time. I would say that's number one. Um, number two, if you do have the time or you decide to invest it, which I think every business leader should do, um, irrespective of whether they work with an agency or don't.

Because if you work with a, an external partner, you still have to invest time. There is a lot of components around, you know, there is a lot of value. To what experts in Tan bring? Right. So a couple of things. First, um, we're an, we're experts in the Latin American talk, right? Right. If you come from the US or Europe or any other country and want to hire, um, let's say, you know, a, a DevOps, um, you know, engineer.

Um, the question becomes, well, you know, Latin America is a big market. Where should you go? Right? Um, and how, you know, what does it look like [00:10:00] in terms of the, um, you know, whether the value proposition you have for those individuals is the right one in Argentina or in Colombia or in Peru, right? And your ability to attract.

Those individuals, um, you know, what is, what is from a cost perspective, what you need to consider, right? How do you contract those individuals in the country? And so there's a lot of components around how to actually go. About the, um, attraction strategy that an external partner, like, you know, we or many others knowing the market are able to, um, support and advise on an, you know, avoiding making mistakes or investing a lot of time in that.

That's number one. Number two is that, um, many times unfortunately. Leaders believe, and, and I've heard myself after so much time, recruiting is easy, right? This, this, hiring someone is easy. And, um, that's how bad decisions are made. Um, I was reading, um, you know, this morning, a [00:11:00] Gallup rep, a report from Gallup and about.

40% of turnover. It's early turnover, right? Mm-hmm. Bad hiring decisions. 40% of the people that leave leave early because you made a bad hiring decision. And that has to do with also lacking the right methodology to assess talent, right? So what should you ask? How do you assess individuals right outside of the hard skills?

That are probably easier, right? Um, you know, you can probably assess whether they have the right, um, engineering skills or, you know, the right, um, marketing experience. But how do you assess if they're the right fit for your organization, your culture, if they have the right potential and learning agility.

And so, um, that's part of also the value that, um, TA experts bring, uh, being able to tell you some of those soft. Skills and components based on your needs. Um, and so, you know, I believe that's many times left aside [00:12:00] unfortunately, but it is absolutely critical in making hiring decision because if you hire someone and your culture is, um, you know, fast paced and you hire someone that's not used to that.

And, you know, they're more process oriented. They're, you know, they're more used to bureaucratic cultures. It's, there's, they're not gonna be a fit. Right? They're going to fail, or they're going to leave, or you're going to let them go. Right? And so, um, you know, being able to assess everything outside of the hard skills.

It's part of the value that a TA expert can bring to the table. And, um, this is something I typically hear from, from the clients we work with, right? Um, that have, you know, gone out themselves or maybe work with other partners that don't think about this a lot. And unfortunately, you know, bad hiring decisions cost a lot of money, a lot of time, 

Mehmet: right?

Leandro: And so that's why I'm so keen always to telling leaders, invest the time, um, you know, assisted talent. Make sure that you know what you need to assess outside of the hard skills. And that's where maybe experts like, [00:13:00] you know, like we are or others, um, come in. That doesn't mean you have to do it always with an external agency.

Sometimes you shouldn't. Uh, but sometimes you should. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. Yeah. And, uh, the cost of, uh, you know, uh, losing, I mean hiring and then losing the talent is, is really high. And it's, I think it's underrated always, um, in, in many companies because again, when you get someone, uh, there's a cost. Associated with the hiring itself.

And then there is another cost training them maybe. And then, you know, it's a time wasted. Time is money. Uh, so, so to your point, and then again repeating the same cycle. Now, one thing you mentioned, uh, which is about, you know, getting the right hire, right, getting the right, uh, I would say, um, talent. That would fit.

How, how have you seen the definition of Right hire evolved? You know, with, with with, with time, at least in the [00:14:00] past few years, especially now we are talking about how AI is changing, you know, the, the, the jobs we do even, you know, what kind of skills we need to have. So how this world of right hire have evolved and is still evolving in your opinion, Lean.

Leandro: Yeah, that's, that's a great question. And lemme tell you one thing about cost. You mentioned the cost, right? Um, research shows that about, um, you know, when you miss hire, um, replacing that person and that entire process costs between 100 and 200% of that person's annual salary. So. Putting numbers behind it makes, you know, if you're a business leader, if you're running a business and it's going to cost you 100% of the annual salary of that person, you're hiring, making the wrong decision.

That's, you know, to me that's a big aha moment. Right. Um, so you, you're spot, spot on on that one. Um, in terms of how. How the definition of the right hire [00:15:00] has changed. Um, so, so I think we continue to see, um, a shift, um, between the, uh, balance and the priority of the hard skills towards the soft skills, right?

And so, um, it doesn't mean that they don't matter, right? But before it was all about, um, you know, do you know how to code, right? What is your. Um, you know, what is your expertise and what is your level, uh, when it comes to, I don't know, using Shava, right? Or, um, you know, if you do marketing as a CEO market, right?

And, you know, that was everything that mattered, right? The fact that you were able to actually execute your role. Um, now that, especially with ai, we've seen that continue to change because a lot of the things that we do, we we're not doing anymore, right? Mm-hmm. We have an ai, um, tool enabler that does it for us.

Um, and [00:16:00] so more and more we've continued to see, you know, I think this started, um, many years ago, but we continue to see it a lot, is the shift to prioritizing soft skills as part of, you know, the hard decisions. And then. Um, that relating to the performance and success of individuals such in the company.

So, for example, skills that are being prioritized relate to communication, collaboration, right? Your ability to, um, navigate the organization. Um, be assertive in how you. Um, express your ideas and the challenges, how you are able to, many times, depending on the function you write, you, you're at translate the business needs into actual functional needs, right?

And so this is something being able to collaborate with other areas. We intent, question, need to talk to. Tech leaders, finance leaders, operations leaders. And so being able to build the [00:17:00] relationships, uh, makes a, a big difference. Business acumen, right? Understanding the business you're at, you're at, uh, those are things that become more and more relevant.

Um, I think we're seeing a, a, a big focus on. Um, resiliency and adaptability, right with the speed of change, especially now of the fact that individuals can adapt to that change. We're seeing every function being disrupted by ai. And what we're seeing is individuals that are able to adapt to those changes, that are able to incorporate the tools that have the learning agility, which is another skill, uh, the learning agility to learn, um, those new skills.

Those are the ones that are being more successful and those are the skills that are being valued right now. Um, the, the World Economic Forum on the research is here, said that 50%, so that's half. Of the workforce will need to be reskilled, um, in this new [00:18:00] world. And so if you are, if you do have that learning agility and that that adaptability and you're able to incorporate those skills and those learnings, then you're going to be successful.

And that's what organizations are really looking for, right? Whereas before, it was how many years of experience we have with this technology, with this skill, which still matters, right? It, it continues to be important, but when you have two candidates, one next to the other with the same years of experience, um, but one you know that you are more resilient, are more adaptable, are able to communicate better, those are the skills that are being prioritized, and that's really what a right hire is going to mean from now on for organizations.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Now a question that, uh, I think I didn't ask much. How much from the other side of the table, from the talents perspective, how much, you know, the [00:19:00] use of technology has affected also because, you know, the talents are, and I know, I know from people I talk to on basis, you know, before. It was like, uh, I, I like what you mentioned about, you know, like, uh, uh, spray.

Spray and pray. Right? So, so, so the talents were doing something like this, but now not anymore because technologies like AI change the rule. So how are you seeing also the talent. Perspective on the use of technology on the other side also as well. How are they reacting to this? 

Leandro: Yeah, it's, so, it's a great question and it's such a complex topic, right?

So it's funny because now you still see that spray and pre only using AI tools, um, right. So, so. It's, it's really impacting in both ways, right? And I will give you both per perspective, simply because both sides talk to each other in that sense, 

Mehmet: right? 

Leandro: On the one side, you see organizations using AI when it [00:20:00] comes to recruiting.

Um, for huntingtown, for filtering for that initial stage of the process, right? So, you know, getting hundreds of candidates that apply to, that's impossible for any recruit recruiter to review and assess. And so there's a lot of ai, uh, there are a lot of AI tools that go through all of the cvs, review the requirements, and then prioritize the best candidates for the recruiter.

There's even technology that's conversational. Um, AI that will call candidates and do a 15 minute, 20 minute. A screening interview and then come back to the recruiter and say, out of the a hundred people I've talked to, these are the best ones. Which is crazy, right? I've seen some of these tools in action.

You just cannot believe that. Now, on the other side, what's happening on the candidate side that you were asking and, and why I, I first talked about the company is that there's a lot of frustration, right? Because people are applying to shelves. [00:21:00] But they don't necessarily hear back, right? Because they're being filtered by AI tools some way or another.

And so there's a lot of frustration and there's a lot of challenges in terms of being able to, for candidates to get in front of the right person in the organization and be able to start a process. We are seeing that a lot of candidates are using AI tools, um, to apply to shop. Uh, you know, that's pre and pray, but with AI technology behind it, so many candidates that use the tools to apply, they upload the resume, they tell them what they're looking for, and then the ai, um, agent or enabler is going to go out and apply to a massive amount of roles, um, that seem like a good fit for that individual.

Now, the challenge with this. Is that it also, it, it's not as personalized yet, and so you end up building this loop, right? Since there's so many candidates using AI to [00:22:00] apply for jobs, the volume of applicants go up, the need for organizations to use AI technology to filter, that becomes increasingly important because it's impossible to review all of those candidates, and so most candidates get filtered out.

With ai and that makes candidates get frustrated and think about what technologies and tools they can use to apply for more shops. Because sometimes it feels like a numbers game, right? If I increase the top of the funnel, right, I apply for more roles eventually. You know, I'm going to have a conversion rate and get more interviews.

And so it becomes a bit of a loop there that we're seeing, um, and a pain point for everyone, right? Because candidates are definitely frustrated. They either don't hear back when they apply, or many times they have interviews and they don't get any feedback. That's a big problem right now, ghosting of candidates, right?

Yeah, we, we should have heard about it, right? Um. They don't get feedback because recruiters on the [00:23:00] other side have so many candidates they have to go back to that they don't get to every single one. Uh, so, you know, that's when the need for technology comes in. So on. So for what? So, so it's becoming very, very difficult, my recommendation for talent and candidates looking for an opportunity.

Is avoid using AI to do that spray and pray approach, right? Use it to personalize your messages. Use it for interview training, for example, and coaching when you're getting through a process. But, um, make sure that you know, that you look for roles that are a feed, and then my recommendation is also apply, but try to network with individuals.

Either within the organization or outside of the organization that knows someone. The, the best way to open a conversation and a recruiting process is trying to connect with the person and not necessarily applying like hundreds of people do for every single shop. [00:24:00] 

Mehmet: Absolutely. This is why Lean, I think people like yourself are.

And will be very critical because you become the connector who have some kind of rapport with the candidates and kind of rapport, of course, with, with the, with the hiring manager and the company who's hiring because you know everyone, and I'm sure like also you've seen this, uh. I've seen two kinds of things.

So, so there's like fun videos on YouTube shorts and, and tiktoks, I think where a candidate plays a phone on the screen and start to answer perfectly on the other side also as well, like, this is the recruiters, they, they use this, uh, and even I've seen like AI talking to another ai, which is fun. Crazy.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, so this is why I believe, you know, because people, you know, ask me sometime, um, what do you see the role of, uh. Talent acquisition in the future. As my personal opinion, I say [00:25:00] they have been always connectors, but I think you know, the human aspect and building this relationship will. Float more to the surface because this is at the end.

What would make, you know, really the, the hiring of course. Unfortunately, everyone trying to apply for job, to your point. So it's like spray and pray filtering is hard. Uh, we've had like technologies for, for years, but as you mentioned, like you need to know someone, you need to build the relationship. This is how you get things.

It's very interesting. Times, I would say for, for all of us, you know, uh, seeing how this will evolve. But beyond this, because there's one thing that I think, uh. People, it's underrated, let me call it this way now, the job description. What are you supposed to do? Seniority. Seniority of, of the job. All this is one part.

And of course, the expectation from the company. Now, the other thing that people I don't see talk much [00:26:00] about it is the development. And you know, what is expected, you know? Time after, let's say, I don't know, like one year, two years. Yeah. It's very generic still, I think. What do you think, Leanne? Like, do you think like also companies are not providing this full vision and visibility for the candidates?

To understand what they are. Wait, what's waiting them to happen in, in the future From development perspective? Yeah. Like we are expecting you to do these tasks. 1, 2, 3. We expect you to be strategic planner. We expect you to do this. But other than this, what do you think? Also we are missing in, in, in telling the talents to keep them and retain them back to what we were mentioning few minutes ago.

Leandro: Yeah. Yeah. And, and let me, I I'm sorry. Every time you ask me a question, I do go back a little bit because Sure. You're making really interesting points. One of the things you mentioned was how candidates feel during the process. Right. And [00:27:00] I, I think you, you made an excellent point because, um, part of what we do and what TA teams in general do.

It's managing the candidate experience, but many times we're unable to communicate to business leaders the impact of that. And so I always have sort of data points in mind that I think help us understand, um, how much of a priority some of these things are. And for candidate experience, you mentioned that a positive candidate experience can lead up to, uh, a a hundred percent improvement in performance.

You know, that's, that's huge when it comes to performance, right? Or, um, candidates typically that have a bad experience are 70, 80% more likely not to consume the products of the company they interview for anymore. Right? And so what you mentioned is spot on, right? There is a lot of data behind. How important it is to provide a good candidate experience to a person that's looking for a job in the company.

Right. So just wanted to, to go back to that for a second because Sure. I thought that was an excellent point. [00:28:00] Um, now to your question, uh, I think I agree a hundred percent. Um, and we see that, um, the, the reports that we've seen, uh, lately, um. Uh, uh, say that there's mainly two reasons why candidates leave a company that you could even, um, put them in a single package.

Most candidates, about 30, 40% of candidates leave a company. Because they do not have any conversations with the leaders about development. They don't perceive any growth opportunities, and they connect this to culture, right? They typically talk about the fact that it's a cultural issue and that, you know, because of the culture of the company that focuses only on, you know, operations and results and delivery, but doesn't talk to people about.

What they can do to grow and, you know, what's getting, what's, what they're getting back in that sense, um, it's, it's really, you know, it comes to 30 40% of, of, [00:29:00] uh, the turnover, right? So, so that's a lot. Now I do believe that. It depends on a few variables. It depends first on the scale of the company, right? So if you're a smaller business, uh, sometimes it's really have, it's really hard, excuse me, to have, um, to be able to project where the company's going to go to and what the growth opportunities are going to be, right?

So, so that's number one. Whereas if you work at a. Massive company like I did in Accenture. It's easier to draw a career path for individuals, associate performance, performance metrics to that and you know, take them along for the journey. Right? So, so on the one side, I think there is a component of the maturity of the organization and the scale of the organization where.

It might be sometimes easier to communicate that than others. Now that doesn't mean that if you're a smaller business, you are unable [00:30:00] to showcase growth opportunity because growth is not only promotion, right? Growth is learning. Growth is challenging, uh, individuals. And so I believe that what we're seeing lacking many times is.

The fact that leaders need to invest the time and under, when I, I mentioned this before, it happens with talent acquisition. Many times leaders just, either they don't know the impact or they don't know how to go about the challenge. And so they end up not investing the time to plan and execute actions that enable people in your teams to grow.

And so maybe they don't know it's going to have a huge impact to the business. And so they, you know, they think, well, you know. They have to work. I'm gonna tell 'em what they need to do. I'm going to leave them. And then, um, you know, if it doesn't work out, they'll leave. Or I'll find someone else and they don't realize the cost, uh, that's going to have for the business.

But then sometimes they [00:31:00] know what it means and what it represents and the impact it has, but they don't really know how to go about it, right? They don't know what type of strategies they should implement. They don't know how to have those conversations. And so. Many times it's even a case of development for the leaders and growth for the leaders.

I think that, um, it, it happens a lot, especially in smaller businesses. Right. And, um, there's, there's a couple of ways to address this, right? First is look for external support and coaching and learning. Right. If you as a leader believe this is important and don't, don't know how to tackle it and solution for it, go get support.

Go find someone that can tell you how to do it. The other one is understanding that. You don't need a hundred thousand people organization to provide growth opportunities for individuals, right? People see growth not only as again, promotion, but they see growth as [00:32:00] learning, as having a north, a purpose and aspiration.

They connect to one a journey. They can go. Um, through, uh, that's going to get them there. And so having those conversations openly makes a huge difference. But, you know, again, you need to have those conversations. And then the last thing I would say is communicating that in the hiring process. Right?

Absolutely. Uh, be honest, be transparent. One of the. Things we see. One of the main pain points we see in terms of hiring for both candidates and for businesses is that, uh, not intentionally, but there is a bit of a lack of transparency throughout the hiring process. About what people are going to find, what the culture looks like and what the opportunities are, right.

Unintentionally. Right? But businesses should be very transparent and say, Hey, this is where we are. What you're going to find. This is our [00:33:00] challenges. This is what's difficult and this is what's working and what's great, right? This a good and this a bad, and you have to make a decision as a candidate. As a candidate, you need to also ask those questions, right?

Right. Because the assessment process happens on both ends, and many times we see a mismatch or disconnecting the hiring process, and that's eventually going to translate into how people live the day to day. And maybe they say, well, I don't see growth opportunities here. And maybe that was something super clear during the hiring process, but the conversation didn't take place.

And so. It's, it's definitely, um, you know, it's definitely making, connecting those dots throughout, many organizations are creating talent organizations, not talent acquisition, talent development, right? Yes. That's writing both just one time organization that looks at the entire journey. And then having the conversations, being transparent and giving the tools to the leaders so they can have them.

Because they, many times they just don't know how to, and that's a cultural thing, [00:34:00] right? Intention and then the toolkit. 

Mehmet: Uh, I can't agree more, Lean and I think. You know, especially from startup perspective, as I was telling you before we start the recording, I cover a lot about startups. I think this can be a make it or fail it, uh, for, for startup organizations.

I liked when you mentioned the trust and the transparency, right. And. I'm not sure how often it happens nowadays because I don't have to go and apply, uh, for jobs or I, I'm not like, uh, you know, um, reach out by, by talent acquisition people much as before. But you know, one of the things that used to happen, especially if it's a new business startup or maybe something like this, is this false, uh.

I would, I don't like to call it information, but you know, like they give you the wrong vibes, right? Like Yeah. Like we are, for example, uh, I don't know, like inventing something. It's a [00:35:00] pitch. I understand you need to pitch. By the way, when, when I go and, uh, mentor some, uh, entrepreneur to be entrepreneurs, I tell them, you need to pitch not only investors, like if you're gonna do it yourself, maybe you need to also go pitch people to work with you.

Right? And you're gonna. Pitch, even the talent acquisition person, uh, or company you're gonna work with. So they are also able to understand what you're doing, but don't give them the wrong vibes. Yeah. If you are still new, you have to say, we are new. Like, uh, we have, uh, a hundred customers. That's fine.

Don't go and say, Hey, we have like. 10,000 customers and we are like, tell what it is. So when I come and join, I understand because one thing lean and I'm sure you can, um, you know, agree with me on this, especially for startups and small businesses, this is what we call it, the growing pains. And it needs to be from day one.

And I always appreciated every single hiring manager, talent acquisition person who used to, you know, tell me straightforward like, Hey ma, look, [00:36:00] uh, we have this company. Uh, they are great. Their technology is great, but look like they have the growing pains, which are like A, B, C. I used to appreciate this because you know, I'm prepared.

What I gonna see on the day I joined them. Right? Which is absolutely right. Now I want to ask you some other, uh, not off topic, but you know, like related to what you do actually, Lean, you mentioned at the beginning in the intro that you specialize in remote teams for. Uh, like US and Canada and other geographies, how, you know, this, uh, let's call it this way, tailwind that happened during COVID helped you know this, to, to, to become the mainstream.

And is it now really true that you know, every company almost, you know, in, in that market, they go for remote first. Uh, rather than, you know, asking for someone to come and sit in [00:37:00] the office, how things you know, developed since COVID till now. 

Leandro: Yeah, so I would say definitely, we've definitely seen an acceleration through COVID because of COVID right there, there was no other way to work.

It was remote or remote. And so we definitely saw an acceleration of that and organizations realized that they could, um, have people sitting anywhere and everywhere. Um, I think we've seen maybe global organizations already knew that because many were already doing it. Um, maybe what it did is accelerate the, the process of implementing certain, I would say more flexibility in that sense.

Um, by the way, we know many that are going back, right? We, we've seen that over the last year. Many are going back. Because it is truth that when you work remote, if you are not very intentional in taking actions to drive engagement, if you're not being intentional in creating spaces that, [00:38:00] um, help your culture thrive, um, and, and people, um, truly work as a team, it's not gonna work.

Right. I'm the first one to talk. Uh, a business leader that if you want to hire remote, you need to be invested in that. If you are going to get someone in your team, let's say in Columbia or Argentina, and you're not going to invest the time in the onboarding, for example, it's never going to work, right?

So first is, um, you know, many organizations, we all know it's a bit more difficult to create that sense, sense of belonging and um, do the cultural integration. But when. Businesses decide to invest the time and the effort in that. It's super successful. So big businesses already knew that many are going back.

We know that. I think what really changed significantly is that smaller businesses, startups realized they could do it and started exploring solutions for. Right. And so, um, we've seen huge growth [00:39:00] from the pandemic onwards of smaller businesses, you know, business that are 1, 2, 3, 10 people bigger as well, right?

But even those solopreneurs that are looking for their first hire. Uh, exploring the remote talent solution. And so we've definitely seen an acceleration of that. There's roles that you definitely cannot do remote, and that's fair, right? So, um, if you're a retail right, and you have a store, well, you need someone, um, yeah, at least today, or maybe in the future you won't, but today you need someone in the store.

And so, but we've seen an acceleration of that. Um, we've also seen people that have tried it and like I said. Um, bad experiences for many reasons, either a mishi and so when your first experience or a couple of experiences are not good, you decide typically to take a step back, right? Or they don't invest the time in the onboarding and in creating, um, uh, the right collaboration.[00:40:00] 

Tools to enable that individual to be successful with you and your company. And it fails. And so then, you know, remote work doesn't work. And so we, we, we've definitely, but we've definitely seen a continued growth, um, to. I, um, I was looking at a report last week and there is, um, the trend, uh, right now continues to be in that direction and it seems that about there's going to be a ramp up in remote hiring from the us.

Um, in Latin America of about 40 to 50% in 2025. So this year. So, you know that, that that's, that's happening right now. So the trend continues. Um, there hasn't been, at least so far slow down there. Um, uh, and I do believe that. We're also seeing the continued growth of the startup landscape and as startups, um, understand they can do this.

Of course, that's probably where they start. Um, if you do the math right, [00:41:00] 30 to 50% more cost effective hiring in Latin America than the US for startups. 80% of their cost tends to be people, headcount, talent. So the back of their investment tends to be in people. Um, whether it's marketing, sales, technology, typically the first hires are either in operational support technology to develop the product or sales and marketing.

To, um, gain new clients and grow your business. And so those are the things that we're seeing startups hire first and they go to Latin America because there's great talent, good English skills, same time zone. And, um, at the end of the day, again, 30, 50% more cost effective. And so we continue to see a, a growing trend there that has not, um, slowed down.

And um, and I do believe that it will continue to see this. We also see that growth with other markets like India, Philippines, Pakistan, right? Um, there's pros and cons to each market, and so when [00:42:00] you're a business leader, you probably need to do your due diligence to talk to a few people that are doing it or have done it and make the right call for your organization.

But we're, we're not seeing, we're, we're not seeing that Stop right now. 

Mehmet: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, actually, you answered the question that I wanted to, to ask you next, which is like the, the top three, uh, expertise you see within the Latin America and, and especially Argentine. I was lucky enough to meet, uh, you know, people who were just visiting Dubai, I in Dubai.

Uh, so who coming from Argentina and like other, mainly Argentina, honestly, like the, the, the people who, who visited here, uh. Not much from, I, I know it's like also maybe different market 'cause of the language, which is Brazil, which is, they speak Portuguese. I, I understand this, but I mean, I've seen people from, from Argentina mainly.

I saw, I think someone from, um, uh, from Peru and I've seen someone from Venezuela. Uh, but mainly like I've seen people visiting [00:43:00] from Argentina and really, really smart people, like short people. So to your point, like first it's operation, second technology, and the third was. 

Leandro: It's sales for marketing. Sales for marketing, yeah.

Operations tends to be more, you need, you know, you're a solopreneur, you need an EA Yes. To help you with your day-to-day tasks, right? So that happens a lot. Um, so that's number one. Number two is for product companies. You're developing your product or you're growing, you need software developers, whatever you may need in the technology round.

Then, you know, that's number two. And then for a small business, again, the next, the priority is growth. And so, you know, there is a lot of, um, you know, sales talent, right? SDRs, BDRs, account managers. So a lot of hiring of that. Marketing. There's a huge, um, there's, there's really top marketing talent in Latin America.

And. More and more people in these, um, functions have, you know, have been working and continue to work, um, for US businesses, right? So they understand the US market. It's not [00:44:00] like you're hiring someone that yeah, you know, knows marketing for Argentina and the channels are not the same and the, you know, they need to rethink the copy because how you get the attention from someone in Argentina is different than the us.

The people here are working for US businesses. Um, and so they understand what's, what's needed and what's required. The other thing, uh, me that's super interesting. Um, and, and you know, probably for you, I'm, I'm also thinking about doing some, some content creation myself. Um, there is also a lot of hiring, uh, from, you know, content creators of copywriters.

Um, so there's, there, you know, the, the, the, it's, it's been, uh, one of the, uh, highest growth areas. Of course content creators, um, and content creation businesses carrying, you know, the signers, copywriters, all type of talent that relates to, to, to that industry. Um, so that's definitely something we've, we've also seen, um, over the last, I would say, six months to, to a year.[00:45:00] 

Mehmet: Yeah. Actually, you know, I was discussing also with someone the other day we were talking about this kind of, uh. Uh, building, you know, bridges between different ecosystems. And one of the thing like how, uh, spots like Latin America with its geographic location and the talent that you just mentioned. So it's good for like, maybe companies from other part of the world who want to expand in the US but they want to test water first, like on, uh, on budget maybe.

Uh, so they can hire people there. First, they are on the same time zone, so you don't have like the issues, they understand the market, to your point. So whether like they're gonna work as SDRs, BDRs, or even maybe technical support Also as well, I know for a fact companies that, you know, they, they, they established their first, I mean, uh, remote point in, in one of the Latin American countries because, you know, to get, to take off this edge.

Uh, funny enough also, like I even. Talk to some, uh, [00:46:00] founders in the US who actually, they migrated themselves. I mean, not migrated. They, they relocated to, to, to Argentine. Mainly Argentine, because I know like it's, it's, uh, infrastructure is good. Like, uh, uh, you know, language is, is not a barrier also as well.

So to have this, and it's a good start. So to, to your point, it's absolutely, you know, it's a big, I see it as an opportunity currently, especially with the remote work that you just mentioned, Leanne. So Lean, as we are almost, you know, close to an end, any final things you want to mention and where people, and by the way, not only in the US or Canada, as I was saying, people who are my other geographies who want to maybe put their first man in the ground in the American continent, think about the whole thing, how they can reach out to you.

Leandro: Yeah, so, so, man, lemme tell you one thing. Sure. Uh, that, um, that, that's, um, that's super interesting. You, we, we started the conversation talking about why or [00:47:00] when it makes sense to work with a partner. And you mentioned something that I thought was very interesting in Argentina. Um, there is, you know, the right infrastructure to work remotely.

And understanding the, the region is important because there's other countries where it might not be, um, you know, the case. So for example, things we take for granted, internet connection, right? Right. And there's countries, you know, like let's say Venezuela, where it's not as stable, right? There's not the right infrastructure yet.

Right? And so that's when sometimes you need someone to tell you, these are the countries you should go to. To avoid a, a, an issue there. Um, so having said that, I'm sorry. I always go back because you make very, very good points. Um, so where can people find me? I'm super active on LinkedIn. Um, they can search for me.

Leandro cartel, LEA and DRO cartel with LL it's Italian. Um, and so they, they'll, they'll find me. I'm always posting. Um, and that's really. The only channel I am active on, I decided to stay [00:48:00] in one lane because there's so many places to be that I was like, LinkedIn is the one that's relevant for me and my business, so I'm going to stay there so people can look, uh, look me up there.

And then, you know, if they want to find, uh, our business is Atlanta talent. LA from Latin America, NA, from North America, because we decided to make that connect. Um, so line of talent, uh, and they'll find us online on LinkedIn. Um, and, and, you know, we're always happy to connect with people, understand what's happening in the market, and, um, you know, we do a lot of advising.

Um, you know, sometimes we just tell people this is not right for you or you should work with this other business. Uh, but we're always, you know, excited to have conversations and, uh, really, you know, sponsor the Latin American talk. Right. 

Mehmet: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, so for the audience, you don't have to look much.

I gonna put all the links that, uh, Leanne mentioned in the show notes. If you're listening on your favorite podcasting app, if you're watching on YouTube, you'll find a description. Leanne, really, I enjoyed the discussion with you today. Uh, [00:49:00] we discussed a lot. I think, uh, for me it was an eyeopener again. On the Latin American market, especially Argentina, and I hope it was, it'll be like also an eye opener for other people from around the globe, because as I was mentioned, I was trying to give the hint, it's not only for the US Canada markets, it can fit even European, it can even fit, uh, middle Eastern.

I don't know even Japan, Australia, I don't know, like, uh, because of, uh, you know, the, the time zone and, you know, aligning with the US Canada. Same, uh, time zone and same, I mean, language perspective, good infrastructure to your point. So it was a great discussion. Plus, of course, all what we discuss about the talent acquisition, how technology is shaping this space, the role of AI and the importance again of the relationship and, you know, building the relationship and, um, you know.

All the other topics that we, Scott, I really, really enjoyed that Lean. And, uh, this is how usually I end my episode. This is [00:50:00] for the audience. If, if you just discovered our podcast by luck, thank you for passing by. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did soap, give me a favor, subscribe, share it with your friends and colleagues will, trying to do a, an impact reaching as much people as we can, so we get people like Lean who are like on mission.

To help organizations and people, you know, finding their best matches to, to, to have the best company to work for, or the companies looking for talent. So this is why we have the show. We get people like Lean, uh, and this is why I need your help spreading the world. And if you are one of the people who keep coming again and again, thank you very, very much for being so loyal to the show.

Thank you for the support, despite, we were still. Posting the episodes in July and August. The slowest month is still the podcast, managed to stay in the top 200 charts across multiple countries again and again. So we were trending all over the place. This cannot happen without you. [00:51:00] So thank you very much, and as I say, always thank you for being with me, uh, in this episode.

And thank you for you, Lean. Again, we'll meet again very soon. Thank you. Bye-bye.