#507 Telehealth, AI, and Growth: Corey Hart’s Playbook for Mental Health Startups

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to the presence of the CT O Show with Mehmet today. I'm very pleased joining me, Corey Hart. Corey, thank you very much for being here with me today. The way I love to do it is I keep it to my guest to introduce themself. Tell us more about, you know. Your [00:01:00] background, your journey, what you're currently up to, but you know, just as it is there for the audience, and maybe they can see if you're watching this on YouTube, uh, you are senior director of growth at Mentavi Health.

So we're gonna talk a lot about, you know, uh, mental health and, you know, the, how we can use tech in this and other topics, of course. But yeah, without further ado, I would leave the scene to you, Corey. So. Thank you for being on the show. 

Corey: Great. Yeah, thanks a lot. Yeah. Corey Hart over here. Um, I'm based in, uh, the Midwest of the United States, more specifically, uh, Michigan.

And that's where Mentavi Health and A DHD online are headquartered. I'm currently, uh, working as their senior director of growth, which is very exciting. Things are happening super fast. Um. In, in the healthcare sector here in the United States, specifically around marketing, um, what we can and cannot do.

Regulatory affairs, compliance, very, very big hot topics right now. Um, 'cause over here we've got 50 states and 50 [00:02:00] different laws, uh, around what you can and cannot do within, uh, marketing. And now, uh, just even the last, uh, month, uh, since our. Most recent legislation outta Washington, um, states are starting to legislate and regulate AI individually, um, state by state.

So we're track. We have a lot to track and, um. And how that also developed like, uh, Syns with how you, how you even make product. Right. Um, uh, I also operate the Ground Rapids, Michigan Chapter of Startup Grind and I was, uh, named Global Chapter Director of the Year in 2021. Um, huge beautiful network. Um, I'm just a startup and innovation junkie.

Uh, probably like you minute, you know, we just can't get enough of people that are out there getting their hands dirty, solving problems, no matter, you know, whatever they are. I'm always so excited to learn about problems. I have no idea even existed. Um, and, uh, I also teach, um. [00:03:00] Business 1 0 1 at a local university.

So I'm teaching, uh, first year students at university. Um, all things about, uh, you know, business and really leaning, leaning in on soft skills. Um, 'cause everyone's really kind of worried about, uh, uncertainty and are there gonna be jobs when I graduate? Like should I even be sitting here in university right now?

Um, so yeah, that's a little bit about me. 

Mehmet: Great. Thank you so much again, Corey. Yeah, you just, um, you know, took a lot of questions that they were on my mind and you put that, you know, in the intro, we gotta uncover that just one, one point, which, you know, when I was preparing, so I know like you've led a.

Public sector initiative, you know, and an 800% growth telehealth startup also. And now, you know, with what you're doing with mental health, what attracted you to this domain, Corey? Like, it seems like a pattern to me, and [00:04:00] I'm always curious, you know, uh, not as a whole and not as a host of the podcast. Mm-hmm.

As you said, yeah. I like to uncover things. I know it's an important topic, but there must be something specific that, you know. It, it led your paths to, to cross with health, telehealth, and mental health in specific 

Corey: Yeah, that's a, that's a good question. Um, I, I, uh, it's, it's, it's kind of a, a, it's a marriage of purpose and curiosity.

Um, I had the benefit of a 25 year career in entertainment. I was. You know, an entrepreneur at 16. I had a really great example from my father. Um, I started DJing, uh, nightclubs, parties, festivals, a lot of travel. Um, I've lived a whole life of just like hedonism and me, me, me. Um, so. A little bit of soul searching.

I kind of [00:05:00] wanted to show up for others in, in a different way rather than just throw parties. Um, and luckily my, the innovation junkie in me, um, gave me the opportunity just to start to say yes, and how can I help entrepreneurs, individuals, companies. And then I got known for really being able to tackle, uh, hard things and known for like running towards the fire.

And I just love dumpster fires. I love operational challenges. I love super hard things. I love it when people say, no, you can't do that. That can ever be done. Um, so. A lot of these opportunities find me. Uh, you mentioned the public sector, uh, project I was on, uh, I had a friend, uh, reach out and say, Hey, uh, I need you in New York in a couple days.

Uh, we just got this contract with the city and state of New York. We're gonna be helping, um, the uh, uh, asylum seeker. Uh, influx into the state, which was numbering thousands a day. [00:06:00] And we gotta figure out a way to house them and surround 'em with public services. Get the kids in school, um, find them, you know, housing, obviously healthcare, legal services and support, uh, feed them.

Uh, that was incredible. Started with a team of like six people, uh, grew to over a thousand. Um. It was, it was wild. Um, learned a lot. That was a year full of impact. Uh, previous to that, I, I worked within a startup and we, like you said, we scaled to 800%. That's, uh, starting from one behavioral health clinician to mm-hmm.

Um, over 80, uh, one state to eight states in the United States. And that's, and those experiences led me to Mentavi Health. And, um, it's, so, it's a marriage of, uh, curiosity and purpose that I think, uh, thread the, the needle there for me. 

Mehmet: Great. What an inspiring, uh, you said something which is I was telling someone the other day, like, I have this in me and it's a junkie as you [00:07:00] describe it.

Like, you know, whenever I go to a place even everything looks fine. Perfect. I just ask, can it be done better? Or why you do it this way? Have you tried to do Yeah, so it's something I think, you know, uh, it comes from curiosity. It comes from. You know, the aim always to, to do something, uh, in a better way.

Now let's talk a little bit about Mentavi Health, uh, Corey, what exactly what it does and, you know, what, what's the core of it, what are the benefits that, uh, people get of out of it? And then, you know, again, again, I'd like dive a little bit more in, into the tech part of it also as well. 

Corey: Sure. Yeah. Um, Mentavi Health, uh, was born as a DHD online, uh, just a, a few years ago.

Um, just, uh, like a lot of startups, uh, the founder is super close to the problem, uh, needed A-A-D-H-D diagnosis, uh, for, for a family member and. Was having a really [00:08:00] difficult time, uh, getting that taken care of because the wait lists are incredibly long. The expense is credibly incredibly large for, for most folks.

Uh, it's a global problem. The provider shortage that we have of whether it's master's level, uh. You know, therapists, clinicians, social workers, or PhD level psychologists, psychiatrists, um, even doctors that are willing to prescribe and take care of or, um, do the medication management for some conditions, specifically like a DHD.

Uh, what the biggest innovation that Mentavi has is that we have decoupled the diagnosis from the treatment. So, uh, rather than going to treatment, uh, get on those wait lists. Um, you might be in treatment for some period of time, or you might find a provider that does a diagnosis service for, say, A DHD. Over the course of a few visits and maybe $4,000, we've said, Hey, why don't we do the diagnosis first?

Let's do it [00:09:00] asynchronously. Uh, run through as a patient through the assessment online, uh, all by yourself, self-led, start and stop as you need. Come back to it. Uh, hit submit. And once you do that, that, uh, that is forwarded to one of our clinicians and our PhD level. Uh, provider will evaluate that assessment and surface the diagnosis or diagnoses with comorbidities.

We see that, uh, specifically with like a DHD, a lot of other comorbidities like, um, sleep disorder or OCD. Um. You know, anxiety, depression, and this then gives us a diagnosis within two to five days rather than waiting weeks or months. Uh, also, uh, retail is $189 out out the door, so it's less than 200 bucks versus thousands.

Uh. So it really reduces the, uh, the barrier area of access to care and provides the kinds of [00:10:00] certainty and awareness that people are really craving. That's the big innovation that we had. And then in the, in the following years, um, started to add other services as well that include, uh, coaching. So that's like subclinical.

You kind of try to wanna meet people where they're at, and then, uh, they might not be ready for a serious intervention, like a therapy, but we offer. Therapy Teletherapy as well. Mm-hmm. And medication management. So we do use telehealth to prescribe class two drugs. Um, and we, uh, do it in a very, very ethical, highest standard as possible.

Um, and, uh, yeah, so we get to show up before a lot of people we've, we just celebrated our, um. 200000th, uh, diagnostic evaluation. So that's a lot of patients to serve in just a few years. And, uh, over 500,000, uh, combined. Um, like, uh, patient interactions. 

Mehmet: Cool. Now, you mentioned about, um, you know, the, the need for, for, you know, this [00:11:00] service of course, and you said the founders were close to the problem.

We know for a fact, like we talk now about pre COVID post COVID, right. And. There's a fact and there's a lot of studies that shows that first telehealth, you know, it literally exploded post COVID. The other thing is, you know, mental health, so, so the COVID gave people this, I would say the moment to reflect and figure out actually that, hey, like I have a mental health problem and.

They started to learn that mental health is not, you know, you're like, you're not a, um, you know, you're not sick in the sense of a physically sick and you need to see a doctor rather than it's something that needs therapy. How much, you know, have you seen this really, uh, trend of people more and more who want to also discover like.

Do I have a DHD? Like, do I have, you know, some other, uh, uh, issues related to my mental [00:12:00] health? So how this kind of became, I'm not sure if it's the right term to use, but kind of a, uh, uh, like tailwind, right? Mm-hmm. That is, is pushing also the innovation in this space. And of course, providers like, uh, Mentavi Health to be existing in this space.

Corey: Yeah, that's a good question. And, and there's a lot there, you know, the, uh, normalization of these topics. Um, the, um. The increased stability for people to be comfortable, uh, to even be open to the self-awareness that something might be an issue. Um, then also, let's say employers embracing, uh, the, the whole picture of, of someone and who they are and how to support them through their, uh, employer assistance programs or, uh, then also family members being able to.

Uh, be a little more comfortable and offer grace to, to one another. That, that certainly did come, [00:13:00] uh, or the, that normalization was accelerated through the pandemic, and that was of course, supported by the relaxing or, uh, the changing of some rules around what can and cannot be done with telehealth. Um.

And those rules are still yet to be made permanent. Uh, the, uh, for telehealth specifically, uh, around prescribing, uh, drugs and so on, we're really looking forward to, in the US here, legislation actually being finalized so that we can, we can codify this and just make it, just make it a, a standard, um.

Outside of prescribing medication, telehealth has been around since the seventies and the efficacy has been proven since then. That was, you know, basically just, you know, on the phone. Um, doing it like we are here, uh, you know, via, um, like a video connection is, is, is fantastic. Um, it really allows folks to, um.

Uh, [00:14:00] have the, you create the time, uh, the availability, uh, show up in, say, a comfortable environment. Uh, a lot of different factors. It, I was a part of a really fun, uh, round table during the, the pandemic, the early, early. Maybe months, like, uh, six months in of our lockdowns here in the US and it was with Kaiser Permanente.

They put it on. Uh, the rate of adoption of telehealth in just those first months was staggering and really, really, uh, exciting at the same time. Uh, and this is not just with, uh, uh, like behavioral healthcare. This is across all different kinds of, of disciplines. We saw the level of adoption just increase like hundreds and hundreds of fold people that, you know, providers that would say, no, no, no, this is, this simply cannot work.

I cannot, I cannot help anyone with their skin. I can't help people with their feet. I can't help people with their eyes, you know, over telehealth. That is [00:15:00] just silly. Um, and it's amazing what we as humans, when we're faced with the, you know, an adversity like say that pandemic and the limitations, uh, that are presented.

For being in person. And then we had this technology, uh, the adoption just almost night and day. Those same folks that previously were like, no, no, no, this is impossible. All of a sudden, even overnight, were like, okay. I gave it a try and. Not only does it work for my patients, but it works for me too, my own like, uh, balance, uh, lifestyle and being able to show up for myself.

So that was, that was, that was pretty incredible. But that, that permission that you're talking about the, um, the self-awareness and the normalization of the topic. I think that's not even just, uh, in the US that's, that's somewhat global. Uh, we do see, you know, different, uh, cultures have different kinds of sensitivities, specifically around behavioral healthcare.

And even the, even in those regions things have moved. You know, it's moved a little bit. 

Mehmet: Yeah, it did [00:16:00] indeed. Uh. You would ask me, how do I understand from the number of clinics that really literally pop started to pop out? I can speak about Dubai at least, you know, where the place where I live, um, it's, it wasn't like taboo or something bad to mention.

Like, you know, I need like. To visit a mental health center, but people used to hide this. And when the pandemic came and everyone was talking about, you know, yeah, we, we locked at our, uh, homes. Um, we had, you know, the, the challenge of, you know. Understand what's in the future. Especially like jobs were like cut by some companies, will I stay in my job?

So this anxiety and anxiety, sorry. And, and you know, all these other, uh, you know, things. So people started to. Tell first their close family, then their colleagues, then you know, everyone else. And then, yeah, it [00:17:00] became something acceptable and nothing wrong again with it. You know, like, uh, um, I remember in 2023, you know, I had to visit, uh, a, a mental health center because I felt I have something wrong.

You know, when, you know, I, I needed to get my focus back. I thought I had a DHD. They said maybe they couldn't diagnosed me. But anyway, so, so, you know, of course like the pandemic pushed that on a global level that that's a hundred percent true. Corey, now when we talk about growth, and especially with something related in general to healthcare and something more specific, which, which is special kind of requirements when we talk about, uh, growing a, a, a, a company in that space, so.

What is, you know, the, the product, you know, philosophy behind it like, and the messaging that you need to utilize, so you make sure that you are talking to the right people. You're [00:18:00] talking also the right language. So what kind of philosophy? I'm calling it philosophy because I think it's like a philosophy to put that, especially in something very specific like mental health.

Corey: Yeah, well for, for healthcare here in the us, uh, marketing is, um, a little challenging 'cause there are some limitations of what you can and cannot do. Uh, we have guidelines like high tech and, and hipaa. Um, and there there's no shortage of, of healthcare organizations small and large in like, in the news, uh, because they're.

They're, they're facing class action suits or they're facing, uh, suits from, uh, states and, and governments, um, all around privacy and trying to protect folks and which is, is really important. It is. It can't just be the wild, wild west out there. We have to be ethical in how we go about, uh, doing our [00:19:00] business.

And that is trying to get people through the front door, uh, taking care of the patients, uh, that are in, in our care. And then also engaging with other partners. So other, other businesses, whether it's other healthcare organizations or say schools or employers, different kinds of community groups. Uh, each, each one of these populations, uh, requires a different set of rules, guidelines, guidelines, boundaries, and then messaging is like what you're talking about.

And right now, 2025, man, I tell you, um. The landscape is, it feels completely different in August than it did in July, and July was completely different than it was in February. Um, the benefits that we have now, the technology is so much better to enrich the data that we ha that we're, that we're getting.

Not necessarily in a, uh, in a [00:20:00] way that is like hacking marketing, but it's in a way to show up for the individual in the way that the individual needs. And that is basically, um, like the essence of, of really great care in the first place. Every. Every person is different and deserves a different kind of approach and a different kind of messaging and a different kind of, um, they're ready for care in different, different moments, um, or to even be engaged in the discussion.

When we're able to personalize this on the individual level, that helps us show up for more people in a better way, uh, and get them the care that they need. So I, I'm interested in. Uh, doing whatever we can in that light. And so that's using AI tools. And there, there, there's a, there's a new term right now.

It's, it's gone from like direct consumer or like business 'cause B2B, B2C. And then we do have a, a, a nice big [00:21:00] segment of our business, which is B2B, uh, contracted, um, arrangements with different organizations. Um, but this new term of, uh, B two me. So like how I'm gonna message you specifically, and then even perhaps say your, like your best friend or your wife, or your parent or your child, everyone gets a different message that's.

Customized to them when they're ready. And, you know, we've known for so much time how much data we give up just on our phones or where we might, you know, choose to, to shop or the, uh, different kinds of, um, uh, things we might read, whether it's news or, you know, fiction or whatever where we went to school.

So those profiles are out there and, uh, I think it's, it's, if we use 'em in ethical ways, then it's nothing but upside. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. So this is, you know, in [00:22:00] ai, uh, terminology, which they call it the personalization. And I think, you know, the ones who master how to use it are the ones who gonna win big. Uh, unfortunately I'm seeing a lot of, um, maybe you can, uh.

Tell me what you're seeing. Also, Corey, not related specifically to, to healthcare or mental health, but you know, there's this debate about using AI tools in your go-to market strategy. Now we are seeing some people nailing it. They're getting it super right, and we are seeing these people who are like, just as we call it.

Like, uh, spray and pray. Right? So, so like you just try to do anything with AI and just wait to, for the results. Who do you think, you know, or what do you think the people who are succeeding with it are doing versus the people who are not getting any results? 

Corey: Right. Um, it's, uh, it, it, I think it's [00:23:00] different depending on the, the industry or the product.

Mm-hmm. Uh, again, you asked, you know, more broadly outside of, or maybe including healthcare. Um, so those that I, I see really, really nailing it are, um, starting small, iterating fast, uh, making sure that there's a human in the loop still, uh, letting AI just go off and do its own thing, uh, with limited training.

Uh, can get some folks into hot water. Um, and it may take, uh, a little more effort and time to, to maybe fix something that AI might, might break and, and break significantly. 'cause if we are not careful, like we build these bots and they're just being a good bot doing what the good bot does, as you told it to do in May.

Be creating mayhem, but it's like I'm the best mayhem creating bot ever. And um, yeah, we just gotta be careful. So those that are, that are human in the loop, doing small things and iterating fast and also [00:24:00] pivoting, that allows 'em to pivot and shift and change as the technologies change. The models have new versions all the time.

Different models now are accelerating with different things or, um. Becoming better at different things. Uh, and I, I think it's also important I see the, I see the organizations, especially, even if they're like a mid-size company, if they can designate someone as like their AI person, the AI czar or like that's just your AI person, the a AI enablement or operations.

Person. That's when I see like organizations really, really thrive. Because then again, just like that behavioral healthcare talk we had earlier about normalizing things, normalizing the use of AI in organizations, but also building some. Guide, guidelines and guardrails is really key. Um, your teams really want to use ai.

They really are curious about it, but you also have to know how they're doing [00:25:00] it so that they're not, uh, getting you into hot water just by being good old employees trying to, you know, just trying to do their best. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. Now beside using AI for the go-to market strategy and, you know, trying to reach within what, uh, you know, uh, utilize today at Mentavi, like, is there any use, like, for example, for AI or any sort of automation maybe, uh, to do kind of a.

You know, faster diagnostics or maybe helping whoever is responsible, keeping, as you said, the human in the loop. Uh, are there any use cases have you seen, you know, internally, uh, if you can share of course, any, uh, being used successfully also, which. It led to better, let's say, um, patient satisfaction, let's call it this way.

And you know, this is kind of a customer [00:26:00] success where if someone is happy they go and refer more other people. Anything you can share in that, in that, uh, space. 

Corey: Well, we've, uh, like internally here at Mentavi Health, we have been looking at a lot of different, off the shelf products. Um, we're of course tracking all of the regulations that are coming out, um, which are, which are either general and vague or are very specific, and it changes from state to state to state.

Here in, in the US the, even the interpretation of some of the language inside, uh, established laws like, um, and, and rules around like hipaa, um, are, are, are not like, so defined. So there's, there's too much gray area, um, all around here. So internally, um. We are not using AI to perform any diagnosis. We're not using ai, uh, to conduct any kind of, [00:27:00] uh, therapy or coaching.

Um, there are, and we, we have a ai, uh, governance committee, uh, that we stood up, um, uh, a while ago. And, and one of the first healthcare organizations that we know of that, that did, that had done so, um, our CEO, our, our Chief Medical officer, our chief compliance officer, um. You know, they're, they're in their communities, uh, talking with the fellow, you know, colleagues, and this is what everyone's talking about.

And, and we just need to make sure that whatever we do, we, we do it safely. Um, and for healthcare specifically, and say for, for us, yeah. The, the humans that are the ones that to perform the care and, um, and surface a, a diagnosis is key. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. So again, like it's you, anything related to health specifically needs to be addressed, uh, with super care [00:28:00] and regulations.

By the way, HIPAA is, is known in, in the us but other geographies, they have similar kind of regulations, but it stays the same like privacy of, uh. Patience is, is like, I think it's a global thing. Uh, maybe it falls under different names. I can't memorize all of them, but HIPAA is the model. I think that other regulators, you know, they, they mention when they want to, to apply even in a local legislation.

Um, shifting a little bit gear and going back to, to what you do best. Uh, uh, Corey. Um, from your experience especially, it's a very kind of a cliche, let's call it this way, going from zero to one or hypergrowth, what do you think the most misunderstood growth lever in your view? Like what usually you see people get wrong?

Corey: Um, that's, that's a good question. Um. It's, uh, it's [00:29:00] fun to have been around a lot of organizations. And then of course, the, the junkie that you and I are, you know, we, we hear all the stories. We, we listen to the podcasts. We, we love the interviews. We read the books. Um, I think one of the larger mistakes that I are most common, most consistent mistakes I see specifically like in growth is folks that, um, they, they, they give up on success too quickly.

And what I mean by that is they might find a tactic that works and they're like, yay, I found the tactic that works. And rather than put all the gas on the fire that that fire deserves, they move on to the next thing. And maybe that's because we're of that growth mindset and that maybe attracts a certain kind of person, which is like, ah, all right, now I Something new.

Something new, something new. Always something new. Rather than, alright, this is working. Let's make it work the best it can. Optimize it, grow it until we find that diminishing [00:30:00] return and then move on. Because then do you think, 

Mehmet: do you think, Cody, this is because, because you mentioned books and, uh, so I, I've seen people, you know, that they go like quote unquote, too much religious about applying something they read in a book or listen to someone saying.

Probably the lean startup and about, you know, pivoting. So do you think like they start to slash themselves, hey, like we didn't get this metric that we think we should have it, so let's go and do something else instead of giving, you know, a little bit the time. That they need. Do you think that, that that happens also?

Corey: Absolutely. Yeah. Uh, 'cause just because you tried it this one specific way doesn't mean that that thing is wrong. You just might need to adjust, like you said earlier, maybe some messaging or maybe it's, you know, the demographic or, or whatnot. Luckily we have some AI that can help us do a, not just AB testing, but A to Z testing [00:31:00] now, right?

Mm-hmm. Um, and that's, and that's really cool. Uh, but yeah, it's, it's, it's funny how, uh, a lot of folks are, they have that shiny object syndrome, right? I read this in the book today and then I read another book tomorrow that like says something opposite. So I'm just gonna, oh, maybe pump the brakes over here and we only have so many resources at the end of the day.

Um, so we need to just be a little smart about how we, how we do that stuff. And, um, you know, track. Just tr you know, a lot of tracking, a lot of folks, I also see, uh, especially early entrepreneurs, um, aren't so, uh, somehow they're, they just don't like tracking stuff. So then you ask 'em like, well, why didn't that work?

Well, I don't know. Or like, why did it work? Well, I, I'm not sure. So like, you can't, like, sometimes, like there, the, I think some, uh, some gut is important, right? Some, like listening to our intuition is important. Uh, but it, but it can't be the only thing, right? You have to have some sort of, [00:32:00] uh, I think also folks, uh, they, they have a hard time setting, setting goals or like, even if, even if I fail, what did I, you know, let's do that autopsy.

Like what did I learn? Uh, those are those some simple, and again, this is all back to basics kind of stuff. I don't know that we're inventing anything, any kind of like new. Like, like go to market strategy or D two C strategy. It's just more efficient or different. But the basics are the basics, right? 

Mehmet: Uh, basics are basics.

But here, I, I can add one thing, Corey, is I tell people you should always, especially when it comes to go to market, think in first principles always, because yes. Okay. You can, for example, if you are competing with a status quo, whatever that company is, and you know that, you know, they utilize this GTM strategy.

So [00:33:00] I've seen people who fall in this trap, okay, let's apply this GTM strategy. At our startup, and of course they are losing money. They're burning cash and nothing happened. And usually what I tell people, okay, why you think you should go and copy someone else? Like, have you tried, you know your own way?

Oh, this is the playbook that everyone talks about. I said, yeah, the playbook is a playbook. It's a play. So you need to try until you figure out like how you do it. So I think. The problem is we fall in this trap. I used to fall in it, me included. I'm not saying like I'm better than anyone else, but you know, of course that's why I called the aging effect, which you have this wisdom and you start to, uh, like think slowly and you say, okay, why are you just coping this table?

Like, okay, you can get inspired by it. I'm not against get inspired by someone. Mm-hmm. But [00:34:00] customize it, dude, like just. Do some small tweaks here and there, and then try. Yeah. But I, I, I think people like to take shortcuts. Like, this is my own theory. 

Corey: Yeah. I, I, I like to call that, um, low energy thinking.

There's a lot of low energy thinkers out there that think it's, uh, you know, oh, this is the quick way, or this is, it worked for them. It's gonna work for me too. There's, and then, uh, the, the classic of, Hey, did you talk to a customer? Did you, have you done any, any research like that? Um, especially like, I love, like, uh, part of, uh, the projects that I do in, in my business 1 0 1 class is everyone comes up with, uh, with an idea, right?

Mm-hmm. A business team, I work in a small team and they build a pitch deck and all that fun stuff. Um, and I specifically have them go out and talk to people, which is so uncomfortable for these kids and. Invariably, uh, at least 75% of the company [00:35:00] or company ideas, uh, come back and they're like, well, yeah, no one wanted to buy it.

Mehmet: Yeah. 

Corey: Because I'm like, that's a great idea. Can you sell it? You know, is someone gonna buy it? 

Mehmet: Yeah. An idea is only good idea if someone needed. Right. Right. 

Corey: And it might be like, great today, but not the right one. And that might, that might change, you know, in six months or a year or 10 years. Who knows?

Mehmet: Absolutely. Now talking about startups and talking about, you know, good ideas, bad ideas from your perspective, because, you know, we, we talked about it like having these multiple hats. From your point of view, what do you think makes a, especially because now we are in this domain, a wellness startup or anything related to health.

Healthcare, let's put it this way, investible in 2025. Any must have anything, you know, you, any models, any specific trends you abolish [00:36:00] on? 

Corey: Uh, well, I think, uh, now more than ever, uh, we just talked about first principles, uh, like, uh, uh, make money, make. Margin, be able to put money in the bank and pay your team, uh, you know, stay in the black.

Uh, you mentioned earlier, you know, just, uh, burning VC money, you know, uh, uh. I am finding a lot of folks getting some traction and some really good conversations with early stage investors when, um, when they're thinking, um, small and short term because, uh, a lot of these investors are pretty, they're pretty savvy.

They know that we're still in the early days on ai. Now AI startups are, are sucking up a lot of the investment, but it's like AI that's helping with this, whether you're in space or whether you're in food or whatnot. Uh, it can't be all ai. A lot of the AI enablement stuff and [00:37:00] optimization things that's commoditized.

Mm-hmm. You know, that stuff is gonna be internalized, you know, sooner than later, like by having someone in the back like, oh, that's, that's Tom. He's our AI guy and he's cross-departmental and he's helping everyone out. Um. So I think, uh, it's these, it's these companies that can focus on the business fundamentals, start something small, um, you know, not that grand thinking, uh, 'cause I'm not, I'm not seeing a lot of folks raise that, that cash just to experiment and play.

Um, does that make sense? 

Mehmet: Absolutely makes sense. Absolutely. Now, part of what I'm trying to do, uh, on the podcast, especially recently, I'm asking my guests something specific to their area, city, region, whatever you want to call it Now. When we talk tech, especially about the us, the first thing that comes to mind is Silicon Valley.

Right? But I'm sure there must be some [00:38:00] innovations coming out of the Midwest where, where, where you are based. Uh, why do you think. People get this. Um, I would say pre-judgment that innovations can only come from, from, uh, Silicon Valley or no, this is a truth. And Silicon Valley, where all the innovation comes and other parts.

And you can talk freely about the Midwest, where where you are currently, uh, is still lacking, uh, and at needs time. What you can tell the audience about that. 

Corey: Well, yeah, you're, you're right. There is that perception, uh, that it takes a metropolis or a, a certain kind of density. And I think that that's, that's early, that's early startup culture.

Think, um, folks were like, oh yeah, you need to have density. You have to have capital, and you have to have team. You have to have people, and you can't have a ecosystem if you don't have that. Um. You know, like we're still stuck there, uh, [00:39:00] in a lot of that. Um, thinking, uh, looking at the stats, and this is really great about, um, having stats, you know, decades in now, uh, the Midwest is performing just fine.

Uh, the valuations, um, this is some fairly recent, um, uh, data. So, uh, early evaluations we see that the Midwest companies are doing similar tech. S like better margins with lower valuations than on the coasts, say the Bay Area, the New York, whatever. Mm-hmm. When you get to like series B and Beyond, the valuations are the same.

So what that means is that's better money spent in the Midwest in the long run. 

Mehmet: That's 

Corey: interesting. It's not just cost of living, that's a part of it. But we've got incredible talent here, um, incredible resources. There's also a reason why, um, the big companies [00:40:00] like Cisco and Microsoft and um, and, and others are coming and spending billions of dollars on data centers in the Midwest.

It's to support the innovation culture that we have here. Um, like Netscape, the, like the, the company that gave birth to how we interact with the internet is a Midwest company. Like stop, stop ragging on the Midwest so much like we, we helped invent the internet. Um, even out of Michigan alone where I'm at, uh, the amount of unicorns that we can credit, uh, mostly coming out of, say.

Tech transfer or people that attended university in, in, in Michigan and then maybe left, um, is, is is astounding. Um, our outdoor economy is as large as, um, as Colorado. Um, we're the first state to, uh, have a chief chief growth officer in government, [00:41:00] like in our economic development. Um. And there's a, there's an organization that I work with called Midwest House.

It's midwest house.org. Mm-hmm. And our whole job is to, is to help, um, address this misconception. And so we do a big road show and we go all over the Midwest to the different tech weeks. Um, we go to South by Southwest in Austin. Uh, we want to go to the south by in London and we evangelize for, um, for, for the Midwest.

Uh, there's a, there's a lot of really great stuff going on here and, uh, I'm happy to welcome anyone. I'll, I'll take you around. I'll, we can, we can pop by Detroit, Chicago, Columbus, Cincinnati. Uh, we can go to St. Louis. Uh, a lot, a lot of good stuff around here. Uh, one good fact to know about Michigan is we have more coastline in Michigan than all of California.

Mehmet: Yeah, this is, this is geographical fact, so no, I'm just, uh, [00:42:00] 

Corey: I'm here to help. You know, like, what? 

Mehmet: Yeah, then, no, this is good to know. By the way, the podcast opened my eye also, uh, about this, and this is why I start to become curious also to ask people, whoever are not from the two coast, the east or west coast, to ask them about, you know, how the landscape is like.

So I had, um. Uh, you know, guests from Chicago, I asked them like, how is it there in Chicago? I had guests from Colorado, by the way. Mm-hmm. Which I visited once, and I saw in my eyes and everyone, you know, locally were telling me like how it's booming now and becoming like another, like one of the major tech hubs people knows about Texas because you know of, you know, it has like some, some traction from before.

But yeah, like it, it's good to know. Because also some people, they want to have this, um, uh, kind of bridging between ecosystems. Mm-hmm. And I tell them like, yeah, US is a huge market, good market, but don't underestimate like the other [00:43:00] areas, you know. Which is not, uh, New York or, or, yeah. San Francisco. You can build that.

You can have, yeah. So you can have opportunities like whether you want to find promising startups or if you want even like, kind to, to go and do, go to market strategies in, in, in this, uh, area. So a hundred percent. Now, I, I know you were named, um, the global, uh, chapter director of the year at Startup Grind.

Um. How does it look to, to, to be in a community such, uh, startup Grind and how is the feeling, you know, of getting, you know, things also back as well, Corey? 

Corey: Uh, yeah, good question. So, the, the, the, I'm, I'm so grateful to have found that community, uh, of startup Grind and it's, uh, over 5 million, uh, folks strong across the planet, uh, and hundreds of chapters.

You know, hundreds of countries. Uh, it's, [00:44:00] it's amazing. Um, that level of crowdsourcing, uh, just intelligence and connection is still valuable. The one thing like you, you just spoke about connectivity between ecosystems. Mm-hmm. There is no shortage of folks showing up for founders, entrepreneurism, whatnot, in my local community, in my state, in my region.

Um, but there are only so many resources for these folks. Say like in Grand Rapids, Michigan, where I live. You know, it doesn't take much to exhaust the entrepreneurship resources. Um, and maybe what I'm doing isn't really the best thing to be done in Grand Rapids, Michigan. I'm able to, through my connection with Startup Grind, is easily connect founders and folks to other communities.

Like maybe you should be talking to someone, um, in a small town or not so small, called Scot over in India. If you want to like have a shoe manufacturer, you don't. Like, [00:45:00] just because a shoe manufacturer in Michigan told you to go eat rocks and kick dirt doesn't mean that your idea is terrible. Maybe it's just like another partner you need maybe across the planet.

I don't know. Um, I learned a lot from our Stockholm director, uh, Mol. He's fantastic. He started up a bunch of chapters outside of his city of Stockholm. Really had a lot of success in growing the overall community, letting people start up wherever they were. Right? You didn't have to take the train in to Stockholm for a meeting.

Um, support people where they're at. That's really cool. Um, our values at Startup Grind are, are, are, um, they embody our ethos. It's, uh, like, help others before you help yourself. Give before you take. And I think one of the most important ones is make friends, like stuff like what we're doing here. Like we're just two dudes showing up, just trying to help out.

And it's [00:46:00] really about giving first and then at the end of your question, like it does come back to you. You just gotta, you know, obviously, obviously be open to it and we can't just be giving, there has to be some kind of balance too, right? Um. But yeah, uh, the global community is incredible, but it's rooted in the, in the individual chapters, and that's where it all begins.

And, uh, uh, just, just, just being cool and showing up and helping where you can. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. This is, uh, this is why I'm telling people also, you know, talking about ai. This is what, this is the part at least, which I'm sure in the foreseen future, AI would not replace this human interaction. Um, us showing empathy to each other, trying to help each others.

Um. Yeah, AI can help us in many things, but these human, uh, things like the human touch, especially helping someone else who's in [00:47:00] need, uh, doing introductions, you know, it, it, it's very fulfilling. And, you know, I, I think, you know, moving forward when we reach, I'm not sure if we are gonna see it or not in our life.

But when we have this kind of singularity and, you know, we don't have to work in the sense of working every day, this is what we'll be doing. Like, we'll be just, you know, uh, compassionate, uh. I would say people who, who, who tries to help each others to feel, you know, some fulfillment of their, you know, why they are humans in the first place.

So I, I'm, I'm with you k on this and I'm happy actually, you know, like, uh, you, you reach out to be, and you who knows, it happened a lot of times. Someone appeared on my show, someone. They get connected. I did the intro happily. Mm-hmm. And vice versa. Also, by the way, like I, I saw something, I asked someone I know, can you introduce me?

And also every time they told me, yeah, of course, with pleasure. And it, it was like a [00:48:00] fantastic thing to, to do. And this is why this show exists. Uh, and this is why I say like, it's only, not only about the discussion itself, it's also about inspiring. It's about like how we can help doing connections. So this is why the show exists.

Um, Corey, as we are close to an end, anything, you know, maybe I should have asked you about or maybe something you want to, to, to mention that I did find a question for you to do. So, uh, you want to tell us and where people can get in touch with you? 

Corey: Sure. Uh, folks can, uh, um, find me. You know, LinkedIn is a great spot.

Uh, it's, uh, you know, Cory, the heart is, uh, is is my handle everywhere. It's also my website, so Cory, CREY, the THE heart, HART, Cory, the Heart. That's, that's where I'm at, find me, um, happy to help, uh, and anything in any way that I possibly can. Uh, introductions is really the way that [00:49:00] I, I show up. Uh, uh, best 'cause I'm pretty busy, you know, here, so I don't have a lot of time to do any of the fractional stuff I used to really, really dig into.

Um, but it's just been really great to, to make your acquaintance and, uh, I look forward to maybe even sharing a meal one day. Who knows, right? 

Mehmet: Absolutely with with pleasure, Kry, and thank you for being here with me today. So for the folks, I gotta put the links in the show notes. If you're listening on your favorite podcasting app, or if you're watching this on YouTube, we'll find it in description.

Again, I can't thank you enough Kry for this discussion. I really enjoyed it. Um. It's eye-opening. I would say we discuss multiple things. We focus in the first part mainly, uh, on what you do at Mentavi Health and, you know, the go-to market, the marketing strategies, the also what startups in that domain they should be, um, doing.

And of course we ended up with talking about the community and the giving back. So thank you very much for being here with me, [00:50:00] Corey. And this is for the audience. This is how I usually add my. Podcast episode. So if you just discovered us by luck, thank you for passing by. If you enjoyed, please give me a favor, subscribe and share it with your friends and colleagues.

As I was mentioning, we are trying to do some impact, so the more we reach to more people, the better it is. And if you are one of the people who keeps coming. Back again and again, thank you for being loyal to the show. Thank you for your support. Thank you for all the messages you send me. Thank you for taking the show this year.

I'm repeating after every episode I know, but I need to thank my audience and my guest, including you, Corey, because without you know you, I couldn't have the podcast reaching the top 200 charts on the Apple Podcast in multiple countries at the same time. We reach like seven countries simultaneously under the entrepreneurship category.

So thank you very, very much, and as I say, always stay tuned for a new episode very soon. [00:51:00] Thank you. Bye-bye. 

Corey: Bye-bye. Thanks.