#494 Trust is the New Traction: PR, Fundraising, and the AI Discovery Shift with Mauro Battellini

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Mehmet Gonullu: Hello and welcome back to new episode, episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet today. I'm very pleased joining me from the uk, Mauro. Mauro. Thank you very much for being here with me today on the show. The way I love to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves. So tell us a bit more about [00:01:00] you, your background, and what you're currently up to, and then we can take it from there.

Mauro: Yeah, of course. And, uh, loudly to be here, meme. Thanks for having me. My pleasure. Uh, yeah. So yeah, I'm Mauro uh, I'm one of the co-founders of Black Unicorn pr, which is a PR agency, which is laser focus on startups. Um, I started my career actually outside of PR in market research. So I rose the ranks in a market intelligence company in London, in the sales team, um, until I became head of inside sales for emea, uh, leading a team of 15.

Uh, we were selling millions in, uh, market reports yearly, and then I actually moved into e-commerce. At that company. Uh, so the idea was to bring all the lessons from sales. Uh, and how buyers want to buy market research [00:02:00] reports and move that to online so we could improve the e-commerce journey. So I had that taste of sales and marketing broadly.

Um, and in the meantime, as that was happening, my co-founder JJ. So, you know, if you look at, um, our combined skills as a T shape, she's kind of the, the vertical, uh, stick. Uh, she has a deep, uh, PR expertise, although at this point I also have it. She was doing PR in different companies. So she was in-house in big tech.

She worked for TomTom in Amsterdam. Uh, she worked agency side at GMR Marketing. She was also head of a, of, uh, of PR at a startup in London. Um, and it's actually at that experience of hers that the idea for Black Unicorn PR first came about. She was shopping for PR agencies, uh, and they were a startup. And what she saw was that there were big [00:03:00] agencies, everyone knows the names that were turning up with their, you know, experienced salespeople.

And offering something that was not relevant to startups. Um, and they would also, uh, offer account managers from their team with less experience. So it was basically the salesperson would come to greet you and sell to you, uh, but you would never see 'em again. Um, so she saw that gap. She decided to go freelance.

Uh, and within a couple of months she actually had three clients or so, and she was making about, you know, twice or three times what she was making before, uh, at the startup, but she was also at capacity. So that's when we saw the opportunity we had started together in Bristol, in the uk. I quit my corporate job having a broader sales and marketing experience, and we started the agency formally and we also started a brand for it black unicorn [00:04:00] pr.

So why black unicorn pr? As you know, the unicorn is the term for a billion dollar company that is private, right? Um, now the term is a bit out of fashion, but the idea was to work with the most ambitious driven founders and help them tell their stories. Um, and education is a huge part of what we do as well, and that's why, uh, I'm here, I guess.

Uh, so we do a lot of workshops, webinars, blog speaking opportunities, pos like this one because every year there are thousands and thousands of new startups, new tech companies or solopreneurs typically starts with a CEO and a CTO. Uh, so a person doing fundraising and another person doing product. But no one with marketing experience.

So we believe it's a must for any co-founder, whether CEO or CTO to actually understand the fundamentals of pr. 

Mehmet Gonullu: Cool. [00:05:00] Uh, it's a very, I would say, inspiring background, right? And, uh, inspiring story for starting the, uh, you know, your current company. Um, and I think I. When you reach out to me, Maro is, um, you know, the, I always, I do this, like, did, did we have something like this before?

Did I interviewed someone who did that before? And I figured out, like we maybe touched base on it, but we didn't, I didn't talk to someone who owns a PR company actually, which is, I'm very happy that you are here with me today because you know, I would have a lot of questions for you now. The thing that comes to mind immediately.

Mm-hmm. Like, hey, we are, we are still small. Like we just started, like, you know, why do we need, you know, as, as founders, why do we need a PR now? What do you think the biggest mindset shift that they have to, to, to make? [00:06:00] Um mm-hmm. So to accept that they need your services. 

Mauro: For sure. Um, it's not necessarily a, a mindset shift.

Mm-hmm. Um, I think it's more understanding the right timing. Right. Um, so I think when any startup, um, gets their operations up and running, I. PR is not really the priority, and that's okay. The priority should be gain traction. That brings you to the next stage. And the next stage can be getting your first users, which you can get by, you know, speaking directly to people, sending emails to people, you know, um, doing growth marketing, you know, product hunt, um, hacker News, those kind of things.

But there will be a point in the journey where you need a little bit more than, than those channels. Uh, you will need trust and validation because at some point you will need to [00:07:00] influence certain stakeholders who need to make more complex decisions in which there are other options. Besides your startup, whether it's for fundraising or for buying your product, and you need to influence their journeys.

I mean, what is a business at the end of the day? Right? Uh, everyone thinks you need to make more revenue. You need to get more revenue. Yes. That it's, that is true. But essentially you also need a plethora of other things. Uh, you need to get fundraising if you, if you're gonna be going on the fundraising route, you need to hire talent.

Uh, you need to establish partnerships, uh, potentially to call marketing or to use their, their channels. So essentially, if you break it down, you need to get something from stakeholders. Like we said, there's different stakeholders and you can influence them in different ways with different marketing, uh, [00:08:00] strategies and tactics, and PR is one of those.

So Mark, if we, if we take a step back, uh, and look at marketing. So sales and marketing, they're often kind of grouped together. Sales. If you're like a B2B company and your client type is rather large, you will have a sales team. You contact them directly. Uh, you try to, uh, get them through the funnel, uh, you know, manually assisted, so to speak.

If the clients are smaller or you're B2C, you are gonna emphasize marketing more. And marketing, I would say the prime suspects for getting awareness. Our, uh, performance marketing, which can include things like SEO, digital advertising, et cetera, um, as well as, uh, things like pr. Now, um, for, for, when we talk about pr, we're mainly talking about middle of the funnel, which means trust and validation.[00:09:00] 

If you do it consistently and you do it properly, you can also get awareness. But to pr, we attribute the middle of the funnel, which means trust and validation, right? So what does this mean? It means that at some point you're gonna be exhausting sales, you're gonna be exhausting performance marketing, um, and you will need something more.

You will need to make your funnel more effective. Everything that you put in the top of the funnel, you will need it to convert more. And also you will have more complex stakeholders. For example, the first times that you're gonna raise, you know, uh, a really serious institutional round of funding, probably your series A.

So you raise your first round, you, you got angels on board, you got smaller VCs on board. They, you know, they're your first believers. But for the next round of investment, I. You will need to show certain elements of trust, [00:10:00] right? And PR can help you with that. Likewise, imagine that you are a FinTech startup and you need to get a license, uh, and you need to show the regulator that you're a trustworthy organization with trustworthy people behind you, right?

So again, that's where PR comes in. Uh, and the same applies to clients. So if your clients are gonna be big. You know, for example, uh, banks, bank type companies, or like the big four or like a blue chip company, these guys, they assess all the options. Mm-hmm. Um, and what they find in the media is a huge component of it.

Right. Again, that's where PR comes in and how you portray yourself in, in, in the media. The media is third parties. Know the famous phrase, you know, don't take it from me. Take it from them. If someone else is saying it about you, it means a lot more. Um, [00:11:00] so going back to, you know, the, the, the mindset and the timing for when, uh, a startup founder might need PR is when you're finding that you're getting stuck with the first channels that have worked for you.

Sales, performance marketing and you're in, you know, that element of trust could really help to make the process smoother, uh, gain that trust. Um, when you're in a sales call after the call that the prospects, they will Google you inevitably, and nowadays they will, you know, search in ai and AI is something that we can also talk about by the way, in detail.

And sure, they will wanna understand how you compare with others. And what others are saying about you. Um, so I would say that's, uh, the right time to get PR is when you're feeling that you need that trust and legitimacy in order to grow to the next stage. I. 

Mehmet Gonullu: So [00:12:00] if I understand this correctly, ma, I'm just, you know, making it easy also for myself.

Um, I, I think also it would depend if, let's say, are you a first time founder? Are you maybe a serial entrepreneur? Because usually I. What I figured out, like first time founders, they struggled the most. While if you are like, let's say second, third, whatever time founder, so at least you have that credibility already set because people must probably, and if you are doing something parallel to what you have done before, they know who you are.

But if you are a first time founder, maybe no one ever heard about you, forget even about the company. So I got you. Like you, you, you need, you, you said like you need to do this when you exhausted your, uh, you know, the other channels. But let me ask you, should I, especially in these times, should I. I [00:13:00] also as a founder, think about it, maybe not necessarily doing it as in the sense of a pr, but kind of as they may correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not the expert.

Mm-hmm. But this kind of personal branding, right, that you do right on social media before I go out and tell people, Hey, like I have this new product, come and try it. Am I correct in my thinking or am I doing something wrong here? 

Mauro: No, I, I understand absolutely what you're saying. So there's two elements to this.

So one, what we were alluding to before, that's like the timing. When like, you know, you get that itch that it's like, well now it's time for pr, right? Some companies, they're so, you know, their product is so good and then their marketing channel works so well and they just keep growing and growing and maybe they don't really focus on PR that much.

Having said that, um, not doing PR in certain key moments of [00:14:00] your company's lifecycle can be a huge cost of opportunity. Uh, and like you said, um, if you are, let's say even whether you're like a, a new startup founder or a second time founder, for example, if you don't p, if you don't do PR around your fundraising, you're missing that opportunity, right?

Obviously, if you're second time founder, you're a lot more confident with when to start pr, whether you will need pr, you will understand all those signs much better. Um. But if you don't get that itch, uh, and your sales are flowing at the same time, it doesn't mean that you don't need pr, right? Because at some point, you will just be missing out on so many good opportunities to develop your reputation and create an image for yourself that even if you don't get that itch at some point, like you need to start doing pr, right?

It's simply beneficial. Uh, it will enhance [00:15:00] what you're doing. Uh, and it's an investment into the future. Um, yeah. So the second thing that you were asking, uh, which was about the personal branding, right? 

Mehmet Gonullu: Right. 

Mauro: That is really important. Um, it has different names in pr, so you know, personal branding.

That can be also outside the remedy of PR because you can do personal branding through your own channels, your own podcasts, your own social media, LinkedIn, et cetera. Right. In pr, we tend to call it thought leadership. And some people, you know, they're tired of the term. Um, and maybe it, it hints at too much to say thought leadership, but that's simply the term that we use.

And what we mean by that is that in a startup company, which is a small team of individuals, it really matters who are the people behind the company. Um, and because usually it's investors placing a bet on them, [00:16:00] um, they choose the right people and they want people to have the experience and expertise, the skin in the game.

Uh. To lead that company to, let's say, fulfill that traction right, and reach the metrics, et cetera. And so, uh, thought leadership, what it is, is we need to showcase that skin in the game. We need to showcase that experience and expertise we to, to tell, uh, kind of who's behind the startup to make it more trustworthy.

Because when investors, you know, uh, or even clients or again, regulators, et cetera, the sophisticated stakeholders, when they are assessing a startup, they're not gonna go for someone who. That has no track record, no reputation came out of nowhere. We've seen a lot of scandals, we've seen a lot of startups that blow up.

Um, you know, it [00:17:00] was a deceit. Um, so from that point of view, thought leadership is opening up, being transparent. Who are the people behind the company? What is their track record, their expertise, their history, but also on the flip side, what is their vision towards the future? How do they want to disrupt the industry?

What changes do they want to bring about? Are they critiquing regulations? Are they commenting on breaking news? And then actually what you see is that people are more important than brands. In that sense, a lot of the time, journalists will gravitate towards the opinions of thought leaders. Mm-hmm. Um, and you can also be a thought leader, even if you're not the biggest startup or scale up in your industry.

You're the one that maybe has the most reasonable, or the spiciest or the most informed takes. On things that are happening and you will start, uh, [00:18:00] developing better networks. Uh, and again, it's all about the perception, the perception of yourself as well as your startup is going to benefit, uh, because of that.

And then if I may add the personal branding side of that, you can amplify all of that by being more active on LinkedIn, uh, by going to more podcasts. Right? So there's, there's different things that you can action, different levers that you can pull. And a lot of them have to do with the volume game.

Others have to do with, you know, the regulation aspect of things, the industry aspect. So founders can, and in our opinion, should get involved in those to stand out. 

Mehmet Gonullu: Right now, one of the things which attracted me when, you know, you shared your, uh, bio with me is you, uh, you have like a special, I would say, uh, passion of supporting also founders that, uh, they don't [00:19:00] come from traditional, uh, or emerging hubs.

Um. What do you think? You know, you know, we can do as, as. Mm-hmm. You know, because this podcast, uh, I don't give it the, you know, the, you know, the credit, but trying to also support, uh, startup founders coming, I. From wherever they are. But of course we know like maybe the people in the Bay Area, they have, you know, all the shiny things over there and so on.

Maybe people slowly, slowly here in other part of the world, let's say in in the MENA region, in Dubai, in Saudi, you know, kind of, they have also this opportunity, but. From your perspective, because you helped a lot of of startups, does it really matter where they are coming from, as we used to say, is geography really a destiny or, no, we can apply, you know, the playbooks of PR of, uh, the, the, the valley in, in other [00:20:00] geographies also as well.

Mauro: Yeah, that's a really good question. And, uh, there's so many books about geography and how it influences, you know, the fate of nations and things like that. Right. I think it definitely plays a role. Uh, unfortunately, you know, the earth is not flat, right? Um, there's an asymmetric distribution. Of knowledge and resources and also being in a bigger, stronger, more mature ecosystem is more conducive to maybe scaling faster, et cetera.

Right. When it comes to pr, I think it's also the case that, um, founders are typically less equipped with the, you know, the fundamentals even of not just pr, but also marketing and how to do communications and how to speak with journalists. Um, and so you do find that. Um, these regions can be [00:21:00] underrepresented in international media, right?

We work a lot with international media and we work a lot with, uh, startup ecosystems that are not your typical startup ecosystems. In our case, we work a lot with Central and Eastern Europe, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and most international startup technology, business media. Is located actually in what we call the West, right?

Western Europe, north America, et cetera. And so, um, it, it can be overcome. It is a matter of education. I would say journalists from, uh, international media, they are keen to hear the stories coming out of other ecosystems. And in fact, sometimes they're even more interesting because there's a scarcity of those stories, right?

Uh, also journalists, they tend to, um, not just be, you know, cold and look at the numbers [00:22:00] only, right? Something can stand out for its uniqueness. And for example, um, uh, a new startup that is getting interesting traction out of, let's say Croatia, for example. Uh, that is, you know, becoming a unicorn. Uh, or about to that can instantly create so much more attention for that ecosystem, right?

Um, so it's not just about the, about Silicon Valley. Um, I think it's also useful for founders to know that. Um, they, they, they don't have to ignore local media. Um, so journalists read journalists, so local and trade media will be read by other journalists as well, and that can set up the basis for being then in international media and then.

If you find that, you know, for example, in the UAE or in the Middle East, if those [00:23:00] ecosystems start doing more, more PR and they start appearing more on regional, even publications, then the international journalists are also going to pick up on that. So one example is, for example, um, we've been working with the Baltics for a long time and we work with a lot of leeway and startups.

And we found that as more Lithuanian startups starting telling their stories, um, journalists from, uh, international publications, they would shift their attention more to the Lithuanian ecosystem. Mm-hmm. So by now, in the last five, seven years, the Baltics are almost, you know, they've been almost integrated, at least when we're speaking about media and pr.

You know, they're at the same level as the rest of Western Europe, and that could happen with other ecosystems as well, right? Obviously it doesn't hurt to have a few success cases, um, but even without, [00:24:00] again, maybe the unicorn example was a bit extreme, but even without that, uh, kind of, uh, huge milestone, um.

It is definitely possible to be in international media. Uh, but it's just that the, the knowledge about how to do p pr effectively has not really, uh, reached those ecosystems and also what it means to be newsworthy, right? So a lot of people treat PR sometimes, like email marketing, which is like spray and pray.

Or blasting emails. Right. And they think, oh, it doesn't work. Right. But there's, there's some fundamental mechanics and logics to PR that they still need to find out. 

Mehmet Gonullu: Right. I, I, I totally agree with you and, uh. I believe a lot in, you know, what you just said about like, you know, the, the, the journalists who are [00:25:00] like, uh, in the mature markets, let's call them, they are looking for these stories also as well.

I would say that in a world where we were, we are like more connected. Yes. Geography is a destiny. Absolutely. And as you said, it's the, the earth is not flat. Uh, but yeah, so because from investment perspective and investors, you know, they are looking for some of these, what we call them, the emerging markets or like the promising markets.

Mm-hmm. And, uh, there's a lot of these ones. Um, and I know for a fact you know that yeah, they go and search for that. Um, because. I, I, I'm not doing it as a, a, a marketing agency. I do it out of passion. So I have, you know, a, um. A newsletter that follows the podcast every week. Uh, and recently I branded to the CTO Brief to keep, you know, also the, the, the brand of the podcast.

Uh, and just I cover, you know, the major fundraising events [00:26:00] and I discovered that people read it and, you know, I was shocked, like, oh, like people in in the US are reading it because they want to see how things are moving. So absolutely. Uh, to your point now, the thing. Maru, you just, you know, you, you kept repeating is about fundraising and you know, being in front of the investors.

Now for me, I know, I know, you know what exactly that would look. But for the audience, for the founders mm-hmm. How would that PR work reflect first when they prepare? To go to the investors and second in front of the investors. How would that look like? Yeah, if you can take us on a journey, I would say, 

Mauro: I mean, I'm happy to use an example from Sure.

From real life, from one of our clients. So, uh, we helped a startup to announce [00:27:00] their, uh, pre-seed and, um, they're in a hot vertical right now. Um, which is defense tech. Okay. And, um, so this story got picked up. Um, and the idea here is twofold. One middle of the funnel generat a track record. Um, the funding is basically, uh, initially just a way in to, to the media outlet.

And what you wanna do is introduce their, your key messages. Who are your key stakeholders? If you're a very early stage startup, your key stakeholders, usually investors are gonna be within the key stakeholders, right? So what you need to do is insert your unique messages there that are real and relevant as to, um.

Why an investor should invest in you in the next round, right? So it's very strategic, but it has to correspond to what's [00:28:00] real. So what does that mean? That means being factual, introducing something about your technology, your metrics, your market, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, all that together. That's storytelling.

Right? Right. Um. So what you're doing is you're starting to tell a story. Um, so by being in the media nowadays, just one, one announcement. It doesn't, uh, ensure that you get awareness, but it ensures that you get that track record. Then number two, um, you need to, first of all, you need to already be well networked, well connected, and what tends to happen is once the news drops.

You need to also leverage other areas of marketing. So nowadays, LinkedIn is super important. Twitter used to be more important. Uh, maybe you have an email newsletter where you add investors that were interested in you and you mm-hmm. Keep in touch with 'em, right? Um, that, that happens a lot. Or you have some kind of community [00:29:00] and then you, it's almost like you yourself then amplify this news.

And those relevant stakeholders. Yeah, the investors, they get to read the news. They know that you can play the storytelling game. That's kind of meta, but it's very important in itself as well, uh, that they know that you can do storytelling because I. You sold this story to the media, but potentially you can also sell it to clients, sell it to other investors, et cetera.

Um, and so what happened with this defense tech startup that did de appreciate is that they amplified it really well. And within days they were getting messages from other investors to start a conversation. Right. Uh, obviously it's not the 1990s, it's not the two thousands, uh, it's not like one article on TechCrunch, you know, will flood your website, et cetera.

But you can still leverage these things very strategically. Uh, and if you leverage them strategically, they will give [00:30:00] you an edge in your next objective, whether it's raising the next round of funding or closing more clients. Right? Uh, so that's how, how. They did it, but obviously after that they need to keep in touch with those investors.

They need to have a good conversation with them. They need to show them more. So the journey got improved, maybe got shortened, got smoother, but it, you know, it, there's still a journey to go. 

Mehmet Gonullu: We always say like, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Right. So, uh, this applies here too. You mentioned something about ai, and I'm interested, uh, Maru to, to hear from you first how AI is affecting the PR in general.

Like, is it, is it more on the content side? Is it like on the strategies, uh, and how this is affecting, you know, the, what we call it, the authenticity that needs to stay there when, when you do pr. 

Mauro: Yeah. So there's, there's good and bad ways to [00:31:00] use ai, right? Um, PR is such a human discipline. Um, the meaningful media outlets that you want to be in, they're very human led.

It's a relationship with a journalist. Uh, they will not tolerate getting a pitch that, where it's full of AI stuff, right? And they, they can notice it straight away. Likewise, they are not gonna write AI stuff, right? If it's a reputable publication. The main way that AI is being leveraged in PR is, um, for a lot of background stuff.

Um, I would say that it helps you, um. With the mechanical logistical items, and that can include, uh, things like note taking. So for example, no one writes notes anymore by hand, really, like they don't need to. You've got all these AI assistant that do it for you. [00:32:00] And you can also ask for example, based on the transcript of a call to come up with ideas for, you know, uh, a thought piece, for example, or summarizing things and reordering and so on.

Um, you can also start, you know, an outline of a draft, things like that. But I would say not really much more than that. Um, the human still has to lead in this case. I know that in AI there's this discussion that we're still living in the copilot phase and that AI is gonna come true really when it's autopilot phase.

But I have a feeling that with PR it's gonna be different because the media. So third parties and trust and validation, we trust humans. Um, we won't care if an AI media outlet says something, right? So therefore, the, the main, the most trusted journalist will be humans and journalists will [00:33:00] trust other humans.

I. Whether pr uh, people from agencies, from in-house, from the company, or talking to the founders directly, they will not want to get AI stuff. So that's how, you know, PR people are using ai, but then there's another side to it, which is mm-hmm. Uh, AI is changing the PR game because as you know, Google is getting kind of disrupted.

Uh, and so what you're seeing is, uh, a change in discovery. Change in how people find elements of trust. So SEO is getting, uh, disrupted and I think what you're seeing is that PR is actually becoming even more important than it used to be because it's both a means of creating that trust and validation, as we said.

But it's also important for AI search because it's not anymore about, you know, appearing at the top of a search. It is appearing in the right way in an AI search. [00:34:00] At the same time, AI favors earned media. Because it's more authoritative, right? And like we said, journalists that are humans, they actually get rewarded more by the AI algorithm.

Um, so a lot of people are saying that PR is more important than ever as traditional SEO struggles. And as more people gravitates towards ai, I mean people are shifting to AI to find solutions and also to assess them. Um, and so earned media has a big impact on the results that AI spits out. So that's one that's pr by the way.

Uh, but AI is also affecting media, so it gets quite complicated. So just to touch also on the media side. I don't know if you've been, uh, following the TechCrunch saga with a lot of layoffs there. 

Mehmet Gonullu: Yeah. 

Mauro: In particular, pretty much all of the European writers have been laid off at TechCrunch. So at the same time as, uh, AI [00:35:00] is enabling people to do more.

So, you know, in a PR agency. 'cause of what I said before, less people can do more. It's also causing, um, a huge decrease in the population of journalists, right? It's enabling less people to write more. So media outlets are firing people at the same time. There are more prs 'cause there's more and more companies.

Companies are becoming smaller teams, there's more companies. Um, the range of PR to journalists is. Getting a bit crazy so it's difficult to reach those top tier publications, uh, and that scarcity makes those wins even more valuable. Right. Uh, that's one side of the media change. The other side of the media change is that it's empowering, um, individuals to become journalists, uh, with their own brand.

It's a one-man brand. As a journalist, they can have a substack. [00:36:00] Uh, they could combine the substack maybe with a podcast. Maybe they combine it just with social media. Maybe there's more. Uh, but it, it's, uh, and AI is definitely enabling a trend that has already been happening before in media. Which is fragmentation and optimization, which is this notion that, uh, you're getting more and more small media outlets or even individuals, uh, and less and less this gigantic media corporations that used to dominate the entire landscape.

Mehmet Gonullu: Right. Um, fun fact regarding what you mentioned about, you know, the. I didn't find a name at that time, and I don't think still we have a name. So the SEO being disrupted. Uh, I remember, like, I brought this up with one of my guests about like, you know, when you type something in any of these AI tools, chat, GPT, Gemini, uh, you know, probably Gemini, they are using.

[00:37:00] Kind of the search engine, you know, of Google, which is theirs. Mm-hmm. But I mean, for the others' perplexity. So like I said, like how do you make sure you're gonna appear in the result that these AI tools, and I didn't know, but funny enough, what? You know, I discovered that. It's the way you prompt the way you ask, you know, these AI tools.

But to your point, I think authority matters. And another fun fact, um, um, a friend, she's runs a PR agency also, uh, because, you know, I, I get some of my guests from PR agencies, um, right. So she said, she told me like, your podcast is showing. When you ask, I think perplexity, what are the best, how did you do that?

I said I didn't do it. Honestly, I didn't do it. You know, like it happened by itself. Yeah. So, but to your point, I think this is important, like if we think about a [00:38:00] startup from that point of view also as well, and I've seen it like. Uh, I've been on sales calls also, you know, recently with some, some startups, and we asked, how did you find about us because you, you want to know like where the lead came from?

I said, yeah, we asked JGPT. So, uh, it's important I think, right? 

Mauro: Definitely. I knew, you know, if you look at your Google Analytics. Uh, increasingly we're seeing traffic from ai. Mm-hmm. Um, and also, um, we know for a fact that a lot of VCs that we know, a lot of startups that we know, they are now using AI as a, basically as a personal assistant to find solutions, but also they ask the AI to rank the solution and give them like a, like a SWOT analysis, you know?

Why should I go for this option or that option? And again, the [00:39:00] AI feeds from, uh, various types of content and it does give more authority to earn media. So it, I mean, it will play a huge role. I. 

Mehmet Gonullu: Absolutely. And, uh, justice is a hint for founders. Again, reveal, maybe not a secret, but of course, maybe you know it.

So you know the deal, the, the deal memos today, you know, when investors, you know, any vc, they will have analysts writing the memos. So these analysts are using ai, right? And. Just to confirm your point, Maru also as well. So of course there are several criteria, business model, blah, blah, blah, blah. But of course one of them is the team and one of the things is like if the model allows search and here where you know.

Maro come into the picture because you mentioned about having the trust, having some kind of presence. You know, like some articles about you, I mean, as, as a founder. So this is where the memo, okay. Like these founders are well known. Yeah. We found them in these [00:40:00] publications. And in that publication, if you're not there, so you're gonna score lower.

I'm not saying like you will not get funding, but probably this will affect you highly because no one knows you. Right. Correct me if I'm wrong, RO. 

Mauro: No, no, no. I, I think you're totally right. Um, and I mean, you remind me. So there's many ways of looking at PR or describing pr, uh, all of which can be correct in different situations.

But one that I like to use to simplify to the max is I. What we're trying to do is reflect what is happening in real life, in the real economy, your actual real traction and your vision and your history, et cetera, and reflected in the public space, right? Right. Whether it's events, podcasts, articles, et cetera, et cetera.

Now, what's happening with AI is that all information is getting absorbed by a single source. And it's spitting it out [00:41:00] back to you, right? Summarized. So a super important exercise for any startup trying to understand how they're being perceived, is actually asking ai, um, whether it's from an investment point of view or a product point of view, et cetera, ask it about yourself, maybe even as a person, but also as a, as a brand, as a company, and you will see how this is what others are gonna be seeing about you.

And that should also inform if something is wrong or if there's something that you need to correct or improve what your next steps should be. 

Mehmet Gonullu: Absolutely. And, uh, just want to add, if you allow me more on this, uh, I, I'm saying you, you also come from, from sales background, you've done this. Uh, so I did, um, the reason why I'm big, uh, supporter to, to what you mentioned about the whole pr and you know, what we discussed also about the self-branding, [00:42:00] whatever, thought leadership, whatever you want to call it, because.

You know, there is a lot of noise. Like I, I ask, you know, people in general, whether founders, whether they are like still salespeople, I just ask a simple question. Look, the person you're trying to reach, probably he or she, they are having the same message. Uh, I don't know, hundred if not maybe thousand time, you know, a day.

How you gonna make sure you're gonna differentiate yourself second. To the, you know, the game of inbound versus outbound, right? Mm-hmm. I'm not saying outbound or outreach is going to go, no, don't get me wrong. This is the, what you call it, uh, spray and pray. This is gonna stay. We know that it's gonna stay.

It, it won't go anywhere, but you should be discoverable. And to your point, the AI here is, you know, the, the, the main thing, like how you get yourself. To be perceived as you described it. 

Mauro: Mm-hmm. [00:43:00] 

Mehmet Gonullu: When someone ask. AI about you as a person, as a brand, as a company from different angles. So what you mentioned, Maro really resonated with me, and I'm, I'm telling people you should, you should go and do it.

If you're not working on your PR today, better you start like better, better than later. Uh, Maro, as we almost come to the end of this episode. Really, I enjoyed the discussion and it's, uh, somehow people, they call me. You are into pr. Although like I, I'm not sure is a podcast a PR maybe. I dunno. But anyway, I enjoyed the discussion because, uh, I love.

Tech, of course. This is my background. I love marketing, I love sales, and of course I love PR because, you know, this is what I'm seeing, the things are moving. But moving forward, any final thing you want to share with the audience and where they can get in touch and find more about you and about, uh, the company?

Mauro: Yeah, I, I would just encourage everyone to understand who their main [00:44:00] stakeholders are. And, uh, they should, I mean, they should know that obviously, but understand where they are and what are they reading, what are those, uh, media channels and who are the journalists that write in them? Get to know those journalists, get to know that media.

Uh, and keep up to date with the topics that are being discussed there. That's a really good first step because you're gonna understand what is newsworthy and how you could also do pr, right? Um, and it's much better to focus on a limited number of relevant contacts than to go wide, um, blast, right?

Because in the end anyways, it's gonna get you more results. Um. I would say also it's a good tip to consider pr similar to fundraising. Mm-hmm. Don't do to a journalist. Something that you wouldn't do to a vc. [00:45:00] Right. So you want to treat them well. Uh, yeah. So I mean, we could have talked for another hour, I feel.

Um, again, we're passionate about education, so feel free to visit our website, black unicorn pr.com. There's a blog there where we put out a lot of information. Uh, to help founders, uh, with pr, but also other topics. And yeah, feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn as well. 

Mehmet Gonullu: Cool. Yeah, of course. Like we can go for hours and hours.

And Maro I can tell you like we, we had these incidents before where we have to do second and even third round. So you're always welcome to be on the podcast again soon. And thank you again for the valuable information, you know, like the way you structure. Things in a, as they call them, in layman terms, very simple like anyone can understand.

Thank you very much for doing so, and for the audience. You don't have to go look right and left all the links that Maro just mentioned. They will be in [00:46:00] the show notes. If you're listening on your favorite podcasting app or if you're watching on YouTube, you'll find them in the description and of course you'll find also Melrose Link it in profile so you can get in touch.

And this is usually how I add my podcast. This is for the audience. If you just discovered this podcast by luck, thank you for passing by. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, so give me a favor, subscribe, share it with your friends and colleagues, and if you are one of the people who keep coming again and again, thank you so much for the support.

I know for the past three or four months, I'm repeating myself at the end, but this is because I can't thank enough to. Audience first you, the people who listen to me and my guests because of you, because all what you have done. The podcast is doing very well this year, 2025. So since the last three months or little bit more, we are simultaneously in different countries being in the top 200 Apple podcast chart, which is something.

[00:47:00] Not seen before. I used to rank, you know, couple of weeks in one country and then, you know, waiting couple of months, but continuously for the past three or four months. Now we are in at least four countries in a week, and this has been happening all because of your support. So thank you very much for your.

Like questions, feedbacks, and everything you do for the show. I really appreciate it. And as I say, please stay tuned for a new episode in the very near future and see you soon. Bye-bye. 

Mauro: Thank you.