#475 Focus, Grit, and Product-Market Fit: Lessons from Anya Cheng’s Startup Journey

Episode 475

[00:00:00] 

Mehmet: Hello, and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet today. I'm very pleased joining me from the West Coast of the United States, Anya Cheng. She's the founder and CEO of Taelor, Anya, as I was explaining to you, the way I love [00:01:00] to do it is I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves, right?

So it's like more natural, more Sponteneous. So tell us more about you, your journey, and what you're currently up to. And then we're gonna take the discussion from there. So the floor is yours. 

Anya: Hi, this is Anya Cheng from Silicon Valley and I'm now founder and CEO of Taelor. We use AI to pick clothes for man, so no more shopping or laundry.

And then we send people real clothes for them to wear for a couple weeks. Once they are done, they can buy the clothes or return the 30 clothes and get extra months. Like Netflix for outfits and before starting the companies, I was a big tech company. Like Meta before, help them to build out like um, Facebook, Instagram, shopping.

I was a head of product of emerging markets at eBay. Help them build out new business in the US new market. Latin America, Africa, Asia. Was senior director at McDonald's help them build out food delivery business for Uber Eats. Started and help [00:02:00] target the competitive Walmart to build out is the tech office here in Silicon Valley.

I'm excited to share more and, uh, learn more about, uh, also what's going on too. 

Mehmet: Great. Thank you very much, Anya, and what a wonderful, you know, experience you have. And, uh, thank you for making the time for me today, Anya. It's a traditional question I ask founders usually, you know, what was the aha moment?

Like, how did you see this opportunity to start Taelor? Like, what was like the motive? What, uh, you know, the, uh. I would say, uh, you know, things that no one have done it before maybe, or maybe it was done not completely in the way that you envision it. What was the story behind Taelor? 

Anya: Yeah, when I was working for Meta and eBay, I was, I.

Usually the one of few, uh, female leaders on the team. And I didn't come from engineering background. I went to like five different coding classes, but I cannot code. Uh, but over time from my background as a product managers, data scientists, I became the [00:03:00] head of product and leading technology teams and I feel a little bit impartial syndrome as immigrant in the US from Taiwan.

So I want to look good. I try some subscription boxes like Stitch Fix, but you have to buy from every single shoeman before you wear. So you have to think, and I didn't wanna think, I didn't wanna own that much stuff, so I try some rental company like Newly or More, or Rent Runway, those are women's rental companies that you can rent clothes, but there are thousands of garments they, you have to browsing through them and it was aha moment.

I realize most fashion company are for people who are into fashion, not for lazy people or busy people who are just need to look good. Sales guy, single guy, pastor, professor, recruiter, CTOs, but I'm not into fashion. So there was a moment I realized that, hey, maybe lazy economies there, sharing economy there.

Why don't we help people to use AI [00:04:00] to style them and then send them real clothes for them to rent And they help to resolve the problem that 30% of close go directly from factory to landfill. And it was tailored why Taelor was born. 

Mehmet: Amazing. I love these stories, Anya, usually. And, uh, it's, uh, uh, fascinating how you came up with this idea.

And I like when you said like, you're not coming from a fashion background, but you saw the pain that usually I can relate also, honestly, myself now when, when we talk about, you know, uh, innovation and, you know, uh, doing launching products and you have done it, you know, in big giants like. Facebook meta and you know others.

So how did you approach, you know this, you know, knowing that you are not. Uh, you know, these big companies and you might have like now resource, uh, constraints, um, you know, to to to come up with [00:05:00] the product, build it and, and take it to the market. So I'm curious to know, you know, what's the approach that you took that allows you to, you know, despite being a startup, to take this to the market and, and, uh, get it, uh, in front of the, you know, masses.

Anya: In fact, my past experiences had a product and leading technology team help a lot. I basically use agile, like the minimum viable product. So we start with the landing page with no feature behind you, just there's a box. They say, Hey, if you are interested in this amazing service, there's someone pick for close for you and then send you real clothes for you to wear for a couple weeks.

No commitment to buy and like try before weeks before you buy. If you like it, put on your email. We got a lot of email coming in, but I didn't know, wasn't sure if those were people who are really interested. So it was a few years ago when, when I, it was doing Thanksgiving time, there was a guy email me, say, Hey, I'm on your wait list.

I'm [00:06:00] really eager to get your service, and please bump me up to the wait list. I ignored it. I thought like, there's no way we were nobody. We just launched this random landing page. It must be a scam. So, and then a month after, right before Christmas, the guy called me, somehow, the guy actually add me on LinkedIn.

His name is Michael. He live in San Diego. And after that, he found my phone number. He called me right before Christmas and I pick up a phone call again. I thought this guy must be a scam. Like who really want the service so badly? We are nobody. He's like, I am Michael from San Diego. I'm a real estate agent.

Please bump me up to your wait list. I have been waiting for a while. He thought it was too popular on the wait list, in fact, which we were not ready. So I hung on the phone. I checked, there was really a Michael on the wait list. I. So went to department, like department stores and bought whole bunch stuff during Christmas sale.

Went to the post office, put them into the post office box and ship it to him and start from there. We [00:07:00] got a hundred customers. Then we try the service and then we start iterating and build out the business plan based on customers, say what they were looking for and using a plan. We raised $2 million and this is how we started.

Mehmet: That's fascinating. So finding the product market fit was like something, uh, you know, I would say, you know, like, I'm, I'm interested because sometime I, uh, interview founders who are like first time founders and they didn't have the experience that you had Anya. And then sometimes I introduce, you know, I, sorry, I, I interview the people who would like, maybe they were practitioners and then they, they start their own business.

So for you, because you are focusing on product, and by the way, people knows now, um, on the show, I'm a little bit biased to product people because you know, anyone who does product management usually, like you need to talk to a lot of people, right? So you need to, to have multiple stakeholders always communicate, communicating [00:08:00] with them how you know that career in, in, in product, um, and innovation helped you also in shaping the company as is it today.

Anya: Yeah, I think so. Constantly thinking about the minimal buyer product and the hypothesis, right? So if you think of the, the rental industry, pioneer ran the Runway, which is a public company, uh, non competitor with Armour or newly by urban outfit, which is a unicorn, just four years. And so they start by with a hypothesis that people rent close.

So what they did is they screenshot a whole bunch of image on the website. They email a whole bunch of people who are going party and ask them, would you like to rent clothes be? Because if they don't rent clothes, then there's no point to view AI or buying clothes or having a store. We're building apps.

Right. So validating the hypothesis is like when Amazon started the Echo, there was a human behind. When you talk to play music and app like Echo, get back to [00:09:00] you on, on, on that. So, because if people don't talk to machine, there's no point to view echo, there's no point to to view ai. Uh, so I think it was a lot of, uh, make sure that we know the hypothesis and then validating over time for even small feature like, hey.

We wanna launch a feature that call shipping overlaps. So when customer return the close, then right today, we trigger the shipment right away. So they, they get close within about two to three days. And instead of doing so, why now we ship early? So then there's really no gap. Not any event days that the customer won't have any clothes.

So, but. Before we launch a feature, why not just, uh, using simple MVP that the customer can text you and say, Hey, I'm returning in two days. Let's ship it to him and see how it goes and before we launch the feature. So just constantly make sure that we all know what hypothesis we try to validate, and then so then we build out [00:10:00] the feature or the test to make sure that we know the customer really want the feature.

Mehmet: It's like applying the lean methodologies, you know, at at, at its best, I would say. And, you know, I love these stories. Uh, Anya, you can't, uh, imagine how much time, uh, I, I spend with people, you know, and telling them if you want to start, if you haven't been a founder, you didn't work like with the, some other startups, you need to go and learn about.

Exactly what you mentioned, the hypothesis. Yeah. It, it's nothing wrong to have an idea and say, Hey, I think like this is something that, you know, customs will like, that's fine. But if you don't go and try and, you know, it's like instead of building the whole thing and then ship it and then, oh, like it's, uh.

No one wants that. So yeah, go with the minimal viable product, find the product market fit, and then, you know, go and, and, and do this. So I, I love, as I said, to hear, you know, these stories. Now I want to ask you something about growth and scale, right? So, [00:11:00] uh. How much also the experience that you had at eBay, McDonald's, and, you know, Facebook.

Um, so how much that experience helped you and what are like some of the GTM lessons that you applied? I would say, uh, to grow tailored to, to, to the revenue that you achieved. 

Anya: Yeah, I think so. Between having a MVP to getting product market fit is actually a long journey. Many company even still finding product market fit before they go IPO And the best way to do so is obviously, um, very important to make sure that you constantly iterate and really solving a real problem.

So. For example, if you look at the Amazon's joke, like when they just started AI with a truck, they thought that, hey would be great that the, the truck will have AI to detect the driver in the back of truck so that, uh, the light will go on when the driver need light, and [00:12:00] when the driver isn't there, the, the detection of AI will find out there's no one and then will shut down the light.

It seems really obvious problem to solve and simple solution to solve that. They did that, but unfortunately they didn't realize that when they can detect this somebody. It's during the day because there is a light. So then the AI will detect, Hey, there's a human driver in the truck, turn on the light.

But it's in the day, so they don't need a light. Right? And vice, vice versa. In the evening, they couldn't see the, the camera couldn't see the driver, so they didn't turn on the light, which is the time they actually need a light. So it's really important to think through the real problem and then also identify the solution that really solve the problem.

So for example, when I was at eBay. We, it was an era that AI wasn't that popular, but we still want to use ai, so we thought that would be great to have people to take a picture of the item. AI will write everything of the items and you, they can post it without doing much [00:13:00] writings for the product. We launch a feature, but unfortunately, not a lot of people actually using that on the one hand, because at that time AI was a little bit less trustworthy.

But on the other hand, we realized most of people who sell product, they really care about. For they are selling. So they are willing to spend time and double check, make sure they get the per fit description so then they can get the per perfect price and the, the selling price of the product. So in that, we found out the feature wasn't solving a really pinpoint.

Um, another example when I was at Target, um, our, another, our counterpart team, they were managing the iPad, iPhone. So they were thinking, Hey. Why not? When people go to the store, the iPhone should become an in-store GPS, because moms tend to miss one thing. When they were in the store and then they came outta the store, they thought, oh, I forgot the one thing, so you'll be great.

The iPhone become an in-store GPS. You put down what you [00:14:00] wanna shop, you go to the store. Now the store GPS can tell you, turn right, turn left. You never miss item the launcher feature. Not a lot of people using that. Why? Because most of mom, they have been going to the same store for 10 years. So, and mom going to a store, like going to a department store to wander around to get lost, they like the shopping experience.

Oh, how about this? How about this? They will shop plenty of stuff that they were not planning to buy, and the GPS took away all the fun and the value problem of the store. So no one like to use that. So it's important to know if you are probably really solve a real problem. Like at Taelor, we help people to do no more shopping or laundry and, uh, help the inventory that we're going to be burned and actually to become a new channel to monetize them.

Mehmet: Right. Fantastic. You know, insight, you, you shared Anya now something you also mentioned a couple of, uh, minutes ago, and I know like. [00:15:00] People usually they have sometime these I would call moments, uh, where, um, they say, you know what? Like, yeah, the data is showing me something, but I have this gut feeling that, um.

You know, I need to follow, you know, what my, my feelings and not only the data. So did you have any moments where, you know, you had to do this balance between, um, you know, relying on data because people do the data driven decision versus making a bold, you know, move because you had the feeling or intuition that if I do this, you know, this will be a success.

And I'm asking this whether. With tailor or whether you know, something you have done before. 

Anya: Yeah, yeah. I think all the time because if you only follow the data, you'll become a horrible company. So we, we talk about the case at Meta. [00:16:00] When I was at Meta there was a feature called 10 years. Today ago. 10 years ago today.

Yeah. So you probably remember, you would show, oh, amazing. You see, you are so young. Or, Hey, the kids were so little. It was a great feature for most of people. Spot. It will be a horrible feature if you actually. Lost your loved ones 10 years ago, right? Every year you are being reminded that this horrible day.

So you, it is a horrible feature in this scenario. Uh, however, they know about this for many, but for many years they didn't fix it because for, for Datadriven company like that. How many people have this scenario? It's pretty small. So if you only look at a number, you will never fix a feature for those people who suffer with that feature.

So as a result, it was there for a couple years, even being compliant, compliant, and compliant. So many times you do have to balance of being a data-driven company or [00:17:00] doing something right that you think is right for the customer, for your user, for your stakeholders. So I would say yes, I think it's important to use your brand.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Yeah. I, I love this approach, honestly. Uh, I want to ask you also Anya, which is something very important, especially when you start, uh, you know, your, your company. Um, and I think many people struggle probably in that part, which is building teams, right? Um, so what are like some of the.

Non-negotiable. For example, when, when you decided to hire, uh, some product talent to, to come and join you on this journey, is there like something you say like, if this, you know, trade is not there? Uh, it's, it's a no for me. Or like some, you know, non-negotiable for you when, when you hire your, uh, product team.

Anya: Yeah, I think so. When I was thinking of hiring, [00:18:00] we don't hire like a B'S Allstar team. If you look at NBA championship team and Allstar team, Allstar teams are group of people who are very, very good. But Allstar game I. Isn't great, right? But our championship team, probably only one of you like superstar, but the game is amazing because they work like team.

So how, what kind of people we hire is al always almost like the puzzle. Like, hey, if I already have. This business, very savvy guy, and then this very tech backend guy. Now I'm should be looking for the front end guy with a little bit more technical architecture background versus, uh, vice versa. If we are missing a guy who can communicate very well, I think we really need someone on that, on the team.

So I think the first thing is to look at what's missing on your team to be a great team that can win, right? Because the end goal is for the team to win. It's um. It's really hard to keep talents your, if your team is not winning, [00:19:00] right? So no player want to play for the losing team, no matter how great or how much that he and she can showcase himself or herself, right?

So I think first is looking at what's missing on the team. And secondly, I think it's cultural fit is extremely important. For example, we are hiring at Taelor. So any AI engineer, machine learning engineers, software engineers, and listen up, like Taelor, if you were looking for a company who are like, um, backed by the early investors of Hello Kitty, Spotify, Facebook, and founder of YouTube, then you should look into that.

But our culture, for example, a startup is we move extremely fast and the role constantly change. These months or next, these six months, you might be really focused on this consumer product. By the next six months you are really focused on this AI feature. Mm-hmm. By next six months, you are really thinking about how to make sure, uh, these feature can be monetized and really driving revenue for the company.

It [00:20:00] change all the time. So people who can, uh, self-motivated because everyone work remotely. While people who can also come constantly embrace of change are great fit for startups. So looking to the culture of the company, the good size always come with the best eye. Vice versa, like when I was working for.

For example, when working for Meta, meta, always looking for people who can build and ship something, make impact within six months. If it's more than that, then. Because your performance review pretty much decide you will stay or leave the company and the performance review is every six months. While people in Google at the time were mostly shipping a product every two years, so they are looking for people who think big like moonshots, but then can also do something really impactful for, for a lot longer period of time.

While, for example at McDonald's, you, a lot of powers are, is a decentralized company. We have. [00:21:00] CEO in different country. They own their p and l and many of the store own fire franchisees. So this decentralized company, you need a lot of communication to the stakeholder to get buyin. So if you hate communication, take hey, coordinations and negotiation, probably not great place for you.

Or if a Target, for example, is a company very, very proud, they are very good in building high quality stuff, but there some people who usually there for a long time and. It's a bit harder for brand new things or innovation thing. We move extremely fast and so you got to show your face and talk to people all the time and being friend with other department.

If you are really a good people person, you will enjoying that, but if you are not, you may not. So think. Look at the company culture first. 

Mehmet: Culture. Absolutely. I love that, Anya. Now I want to talk a bit about, you know, your, uh, involvement with 500 startups. I know like you, you are there as an a mentor. [00:22:00] Um, so it's kind of also, I know maybe traditional question, but you have, you have a very, I would say.

Uh, in depth experience, any in, in building products and all this. So from your perspective, when you speak to founders, what do you look in them? What do you look maybe in their products that give you the signal that, okay, you just mentioned moonshots, right? So. Uh, what are like some of the signs that you see that you, you say, okay, these guys are up to something big, you know, like, is, is there like something that, you know, you feel it's a, um, you know, signs of, of a future big thing or moonshot as you described it?

Anya: I think some, it's less about product, more about the person being a founder. When I start a company, I talked to one of our early investors and he was early investor of Hello Kit and and founder for Guitar Hero. I asked him, Hey, I have [00:23:00] these ideas, and people were, have AI to pick clothes for them and AI will recognize.

Their, their, um, images and people can also share some of their schedules ahead of time. And then AI will pick perfect outfit to make them stand out and they don't have to buy the clothes you can try for a couple weeks, so they don't have to think. And I asked him, what do you think do you think is good enough to start a company?

He say every founder's idea at the beginnings are all wrong. So it doesn't matter what's your idea now? Because you always start something that's wrong and then be iterated, iterated, iterated until you find the product market fits. And so he say that it, it's totally fine about what's right or wrong and the idea right now.

And so it's all about the founder. And I can give you a few examples when Sure. Few months ago I was here and a founder. Pretty much 40 years old founder, not me, but uh, he's visiting, [00:24:00] uh, internationally to the Bay Area. And I asked him where he stay. He say, okay, tonight I'm sleeping in my car. So for being a founder, just like El Lama sleep in the factory for three years, there will be moments that you are, you, your life is suffer.

And so is it, do you have enough dry to. Grind and get it through because the light is in the tunnel, but only if you can make it through. Right? So for, I should told people a story last year, uh, I was in, in New York, and, uh, if I, I didn't make a post on social media, but if I did, it will be the pictures that I was sitting with a, with a champagne glass.

And I was sitting in a business, glass in a car, uh, in a, in a flight. Uh, so if I post it, you will say, Hey, it was amazing New York trip, and I got met with a lot of amazing investors and great partnership, and so excited for the future of Taelor. And the, the picture should be the, [00:25:00] the champagne glass that I see in the business class.

But in fact, why I have that picture, because I was there for a couple days and then when I was going to conference, I was trying to find a cheaper ticket, so I wasn't able to get in for a lot of important event. So I have to wait outside for different days. And then everyone came out that I will tell them, this is my business card.

Tell, let me tell you more about my company. And then one day it was like a hundred degrees. So I was. Staying in my friend's apartments, uh, in the living room. It was super, like wa was really thin. Walls in New York, the old, old house in New York. So I can hear people like walking around upstairs. I can hear them flash toilet upstairs.

I can hear people outside talking, walking through the living room where I stay. So I pretty much didn't sleep for like three days because every night I. Couldn't really like, really, it was a cell with also very loud and then. It [00:26:00] was a hundred degree outside. I, because we stay in a friends apartment, so I have to rent to the train and then I was bleeding, um, in my nose.

Uh, it was too hot. And then, uh, with, with my giant like laptop and also plenty of material that I have to bring to a conference for my boots, I carry it for the whole day meeting with different investor. And eventually the night when I got out to the airport, it was. Power outlets. So I wait there for three hours.

I couldn't get on the flights, and when I was my turn, they told me that you have to get a new, new flights. We pay again for the flight ticket. I quiet right away, like I don't have more money for my flight tickets, and eventually attend Flight. Attend, say, hey. Don't you come tomorrow morning at three o'clock and you can wait and stand by and see if there is any open seat, and if you do, you might be able to get on the fly for free, uh, without buying a new ones.

So I went another the next [00:27:00] days and I was there, wait for another three hours. The flight has one more seed left, which was a business class, and that's why they gave it to me. So there will be a story behind, while people might see the fan fancy champagne class. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. Inspiring story, Anya. Absolutely inspiring.

You know, love this. By the way, people, if you are listening, we have another guest with Anya, her cat is with her. So, um. Usually mine comes and shout, but today he's quiet. So anyway, you know, like I love these stories and you know, you were asking me about the show, you know, these stories for me, and I hope it's for, for the audience, means a lot.

It's, it's not easy as, as you said. Um, whether when you are building the product, whether when you are fundraising, it's, it's not an easy thing. And I, and this is, you know, actually related to the question I wanted to ask you next. What do you think [00:28:00] people do wrong when pitching, you know, or like sharing their.

Vision with investors or even sometimes, you know, to get some, to convince some people to, let's say, come and join their advisory board. What have you seen people doing wrong? 

Anya: Yeah, I think so when I, even when I started, um, I think many times we were trying to sell instead of, it will be a lot less opportunity if you.

Instead of selling to the person, you should be trying to see the connections behind the persons, right? Because nine out of 10, many times, at least in the conference, like if you are a woman, true, of course it's a different story. But if you are in the networking events and the guy say that he's investor or a woman, say she's an investor.

Nine out of 10, Bob is not the right person, even though he's the right company, probably not the right persons. [00:29:00] Right? So, and, and the same thing if you are a CTO listening, you probably know like every day there's people trying to sell you something, and nine out of 10 you are not the right person, or the product isn't not something relevant to you.

However, you probably know the person who can buy the product, but you never really pay attention because the person was trying to sell into you, was trying to get the connections from you. So it's important to think about understanding what the person really care, what's relevant to the person, and then treating the person like, Hey, I can help you, and how can I help you first?

And then in return now the person will pay attention to how can I help you? Now you can see what's the connection behind the person. And your job isn't, most of the time isn't selling, is to train the person, become the salesperson of your company, right? So, oh, I like when we were raising, or we are looking for people who care about sustainability [00:30:00] because we solve the problem that 30% of close go directly from factory to landfill and resulting.

10% of carbon emission and 20% of polluted water in the world, or, and we are also looking for, for example, like the, uh, female leaders because they tend to see relevancy or immigrants in the US because they see similar backgrounds and quality. And we're also looking for people with, um, study abroad experience because what my degree in Northwestern University and University of Chicago, so people who with lost degree tend to be paying.

Feel a little bit more relevant and to the founder, or we are also looking for people who are, they have second generation. They are between about 20 to 30 years old. The reason they invest is because they want to bring opportunity for their second generation to learn, or where we are also seeing people who are interested in entering the US market, so they invest because they want to help their own company to find new opportunity [00:31:00] in the US with a new era of.

Um, this new era of text, right? So like identify what's real motivation behind a person, see how you can help. And then from there, now you buy, you, you get your time, and you'll always have time to pitch once you build a relationship in the future. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. You know, like, uh, this is something I think about a lot of my guests repeated also as well, and a hundred percent, you know, like, uh, um, you, you, you, you need to, you need to know how, uh, to present your story.

You need to relate, uh, to people. You need to understand a little bit, you know, the way they think. Uh, and of course I tell people also don't take, uh, the no personal. Maybe you should go and practice more and, you know, um, and understand what's the best way, I call it storytelling. So how to tell your story in a way that people get hooked to it, and as you said, not go and sell them something.

Because, let's be honest, I [00:32:00] used to be in sales positions and I know how much people, they don't like to be pitched in a salesy way. They like people to come and tell them stories. So a hundred percent on this now, within the, you know. Still the, the, the, I would say raising capital, we know that capital is, is not easy.

Right. And especially in these, you know, moments where we have like little bit uncertainties. I'm, I'm optimistic, I'm positive, but, you know, uh, what do you think, you know, startups should focus on to stand out and survive, at least in the early stages? As before, you know, you know, they are ready to go for the big rounds and, you know.

They will be like, at least now in the scaling phase, they've built the product market fit. They found it or let's say, so what they should focus in these early stages is if they cannot find capital to stay alive, I would say, 

Anya: yeah, I know it's the same is easier than doing. Um, but end of day people invest because you are a great company.

So if you really cannot [00:33:00] find a capital, then. Back to your own business and look into how can you make your customer extremely happy? Because once you have an extremely happy customers, they retain, you have product market fit, the investor will come, right? They like, just like if you are great talents, I'm sure recruiters, head hunters are looking after you versus you applying for those jobs.

And, um, it's obviously, it's easier say than done because how can you be a great company when you have digital capital? However, I think that we are also very lucky in the era of ai, right? So you see so many companies are viewing great products and just with very little human and very little capital. And I would say that probably focus, uh, my mentor, um, he was founder of tomatoes and he, he talk about the story that, uh, when YouTube started, Yahoo was great and Yahoo was big.

Yahoo have Yahoo Sport and Powerful Financing, Yahoo News and Yahoo. Many, many things. But Google only had one feature. Which is [00:34:00] a box to search, but Google, be Yahoo. Right When YouTube started, YouTube founder is one of our investor. When YouTube started that the only feature was upload video and final audience.

But they be Google. So Google had to buy them right when Meta started the ig. Instagram only have one feature, which is upload the pictures and have filters on. But it was so big that meta have to buy it and because you will afraid that it beat Facebook, right? So many amazing product. You start with just one simple feature and when you see the startup comparison there, usually you see, oh, company one have a B, C company two have.

D, e, F. So, and I have A, B, C, D, F. How is that possible? You are a startup, right? So it's important to look at, you don't have A, B, C, D, F, but you have one of them, and you do a lot better than anyone else. So take Taelor for example. Our customers are [00:35:00] not any guy. Our customers are guys who are not into fashion.

We are a fashion company, but our customers are guy who are not into fashion. They are people who are CTO, recruiter, pastor, professor, sales guy, single guy who are not into fashion, but they need to look good because they are socially active and we know they don't want to look fashionable. They want to look.

Presentable. Professional, established, but not fashionable. We know they want to save time. We know they leave us nationwide, but they have active social lifestyle. So by deeply understanding your customers, now you can provide a solution that makes sense for them. People ask us, why don't you launch like ar, vr, try on, we can.

But our customers are so busy and lazy, they don't even wanna see what to try on. They just want their, their human stylist and AI to pick the perfect outfit to make them stand out, they don't even wanna try on. And so if knowing your customer, you will be able to [00:36:00] delete a lot of stuff on the roadmap, and then you will be able to fulfill them.

Mehmet: You know this, again, it's a masterclass. I would, I would call it Anya and um. It resonated with the discussion I was having couple of weeks ago about almost the same thing, like focus you, you, you mentioned it, like focus and one article appeared, I think it was on LinkedIn, where you know someone was studying one of the secrets.

He has many secrets. He used to have many secrets. Why Steve Jobs, you know, was so successful. Launching product after product. And one of the secrets is like he was focusing on one product at a time or one single thing at a time, and then moving to the next one. So, and the example goes like of course, when he was the younger, he started with the like.

Computers. And then of course when he came back, he eliminated all the product line that [00:37:00] Apple had and he said, I need all these three products to stay right. And then he focused only on these three products. And then, you know, he, he, he, he came with the idea of the iPod, the music, like to disrupt the music.

And then he focused only on the, then he brought the iPhone. So he was tackling them one by one. And of course if he decided to bring, yeah, let's build phones, uh, tablets, you know, everything. I remember in one of his interviews he was mentioning like actually the idea of the tablet was before, or the iPad was before the iPhone, but he want to make the iPhone successful.

Then, you know, tablets would, would come next. So this has resonated with me and I think one of the. And I cannot blame, you know, like first time founders. This is why I try to ask these questions. They need this reminder all the time. Find your one single use case, which would be extremely successful. Then try to scale later on.

So thank you Anya, for sharing also what you did at Taelor as well. Now I want to, you know, ask you [00:38:00] something. You, you, you are a, you know, you are a woman in tech, right? So you are a female founder. Um. We talked about this on the show, and I know like, you know, maybe in the Bay area we have like more, uh, women like you who are like founders also as well.

But in general, how, you know, where do you see your responsibility to have like more women in tech, in leadership roles as founders, maybe as product leads? Um, so just want to, to have your point of view on this. 

Anya: Yeah, I think it's not easy. I actually didn't feel that much when I was working for big tech company.

They tend to do a pretty good job, um, to make sure that we feel inclusive, even though you do notice that when I was going to meetings for like annual OKR of site, for example, then I tend to be the only, uh, female leaders on the team. Uh, but uh. But still like the [00:39:00] company doing a great job, but it was a lot harder.

After becoming founder, I realized that only 1% of VC money goes to woman. While 30% of tech company in the Bay Area were founded by a female founder while 50% in the US actually founded by female founders in the us, but only 1% going to that. So it, it's really hard on being a female founder, especially on the capital side, however.

I, at one point, I, I felt really sad. I felt it was unfair. And, um, the word is not. I am not, I don't have the advantage. And actually big disadvantage, I actually thought about should we have, uh, specifically looking for male co-founders or something to just to pitch to investors. Uh, we didn't, and, but what I was, what I found was, you know what, if only minority will stay on my side, then so be it.

Then I go start pitching to female investors. Talk to LGBT [00:40:00] investor, talk to immigrant investor, talk to people who are French Americans in Nigerian Americans and Chinese Americans and like, um, British Americans, that there are million of immigrants in the US and million of people with colors in the us.

I can for sure finding investors with that. Or I can find investor outside of us too, right? So if I, and there are still tons of female, they are female angels. They may not know, they can be investor, but they don't know if small check like 25 thousands, they can actually make a difference for startups. So.

It's okay. Then we, I start talk to people who are Northwestern University alumni who never invest or have invested a little bit in the past, but never invest in startup. They invest probably in, uh, stock markets or, uh, cryptos or something. So we start talking to them. So I think once your mindset change.

You feel less sad for yourself, that sorry for [00:41:00] yourself. Then you got the motivation back again and you can now have opportunity to try again. And once you try, you'll learn something new and eventually you will succeed. And that's how we were able to get, uh, four BC behind us. Uh, and also with like amazing, uh, investors behind 20 unicorn, like Spotify, Facebook, tiktoks.

And so, but it wasn't easy, but I'm still learning and adjusting it. 

Mehmet: I love this. You're still learning and this I, you know, everyone should stay learning, I would say. Anya, I want to ask you, before we come to the closing, I know you have delivered a TEDx talk. Tell me a little bit more about it. How was that experience?

I. 

Anya: Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, I did it twice and the first time I did it, I was trying to memorizing my script because they said it would be really important that you do so, um, et cetera. And I was more of my husband say, like, when he saw me, he [00:42:00] felt like I was. Uh, like a student who are trying to go on a, like, presentation, you know, like, hello everyone, da la la.

So he doesn't feel like as nature as, uh, it could be more like conversation. And the second time, of course, the presentation I think was great because I memorized it that, so I, the performers. Uh, second time I was just a little bit more open-minded. I, I still read down the script. I still memorize it, but that was just going with the flow, how I feel I is a conversation between me and the audience.

The topic was about how to continue going where you wanna give up. And looking back to my career, especially early career, when I was looking for a job out of college, I, it was 2008 when Lehman brother went back to sea, so there was no job anywhere. I will wait outside the building from other department because I couldn't get any interview for my campus recruiting event.

So I will actually [00:43:00] wait outside of our department of engineering school and uh, journalism school. Schools and history school. And then once a recruiter came out from other department, I would say, Hey, this is Anya, this is my resume. Um, and people say like, this is, you are crazy where I will go to conference and I couldn't, I don't have money for the conference, so I will.

Email the newspapers back in Taiwan and I say, Hey, there's amazing conference here in New York. Would you like me to cover story for free? And they say yes. And I'll email the conference, say, Hey, I'm a reporter from Taiwan. Gimme a press pass. And I got in a conference, or I will bought all of the newspaper from News Newsstand and I co calling each of the CEO because on the newspaper it shows who is a publisher, the name of publisher, and if you want advertise.

Call this number. So I bought all the newspaper and I call each of them and say, Hey, I'm so and so. I'm very interesting in learning more about your company. Can we set out a meeting? And I, and I met [00:44:00] with the CEO of New York Times VP of CNNs and all of those amazing media company, which was, uh, my, um, target company want to work for at the time.

I didn't get any job and people think I was crazy in doing so, but in fact, looking back I was only doing things that I know and I'm sure you know something that I don't know. So use what you know, because I was a reporter before the my graduate school, so the only thing I know was waiting for people outside.

Only thing I know was covering a story. Only thing I know was co calling someone because they was what reporter did. Once I was doing, when I was doing those, I wasn't afraid because I knew how it work. So the idea of that I'm not afraid was a motivation that keep me going instead of giving up. So I'm sure you who are listening, you probably have something that I don't know, you probably really good at something.

[00:45:00] So when you wanna give up, think about what's your strengths. Who is your connections and use it. I'm sure the way that you succeed will be different from how I succeed, but once you use it, you won't be afraid. And when you are not afraid, you will have motivation to try again. And you, it's going to be the try again, get you to learn something new and eventually you are, you are not failing.

You are just practicing success until you succeed. Um. 

Mehmet: Uh, this, uh, again, something very close to my heart. I keep telling people I removed the word fail from my dictionary long time ago because I was thinking I'm failing. I discovered, actually, I was learning, and I tell people I never fail. I just learn.

Right? And. You, you motivated people a lot today. And let me do like little bit from my side also as well. So another thing, 'cause I hear from people, oh, [00:46:00] like it's too late. You know, at time, you know, what can I do after all this time? I'm not young anymore. Like, you know, I should have done this when I was in university time.

So I give now example of myself and say, Hey look like. Let's say this podcast, right? So this is a dream that I had it long time ago. I delayed it. But look, uh, I did it at the end, you know, and I keep, go and listen to the first episodes, like I tell you, it was horrible. I know, but I didn't remove that and I was recording by myself, by the way.

I was like, the format was to be a solo podcast. I pick a, you know, let's say AI or I pick, I don't know, something, and I just put my 2 cents on it and. People, they thought, oh, like he gonna give up. You know, like he, it's like horrible. I knew this, but you know, I said, you know what, this is not a failure. To your point, this is a learning.

And you know, actually it was the biggest and best thing I did ever. [00:47:00] Why? And I tell people this, the reason. That I believe I'm still continuing this podcast. Of course I'm lucky I have like now some community behind me. But the thing Anya, is I meet you people like yourself who inspires, like, who I learned a lot from, and really, I learned a lot from you today.

And you know, your story is very, very inspiring. Thank you for sharing this and you know what you're doing and I love something. I have to be honest, like usually. You know, when we talk, especially with founders like yourself, like of course you mentioned ai, but I like that you didn't just like say ai, ai, ai, you know, you just focused on the problem you're solving.

I love this. So thank you very much for sharing this. Now, before I let you go, where people can get in touch and learn more about, you know, tailor and maybe learn more about and get in touch with you. 

Anya: Yeah, you can find me on anya@Taelor.ai. That's a NYA at t AE LO r.ai. If you are self engineer, AI engineers [00:48:00] we're amazing.

Data scientists and marketing persons we're merchants and buyers. We are hiring, so just. Let us know, and if you wanna help to save the environment, also look great as being the CTOs. And so then you can get on the show and talk to people and feel confident and ready for your day without doing laundry or shopping and tailor style.

That's T-A-E-L-O-R-S-T-Y-L-E. Use a code podcast 25 to give 25% off for the first months. 

Mehmet: Thank you very much, Anya. I really appreciate this. So thank you for being here with me today. Now, this is how usually I, and by the way, for the audience, you don't need to go and look for the links. Everything that Anya mentioned is in the show notes.

If you're listening on your favorite podcasting app, or if you're watching this on YouTube, you can find in description, and this is how I end my episode. So this is for the audience. Hey people. If you just discovered this podcast by luck, thank you for passing by. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please give me a favor, subscribe, share it with your friends and colleagues, and [00:49:00] if you are one of the people who keeps coming again and again, thank you so much for doing so, guys, like I'm really humbled.

Um, I'm very transparent. We are recording this episode with Anya on 7th of May. As of today, for the first time since two eight years and half, the podcast is ranking in the top 200 Apple Podcast charts in multiple countries. So this is cannot happen by itself. It's not because of me, it's because of the of you people who are supporting me.

So thank you very much and also because. All what you're doing, the podcast is being noticed. So just, I received an email on the week and that we were chosen by, um, you know, uh, top, uh hundred podcast.com. I'm gonna put also the link in the show notes as one of the most influential podcasts in the tech startup space.

And of course they choose us for multiple, but this is the one that I, they asked me to, to tell about. Um, so thank you again. Like without [00:50:00] you, this cannot happen. I'm very grateful, very happy that I'm able with my guests, like Anya, to contribute, to encourage more people to become, you know, entrepreneurs or maybe to find, you know, their.

Passion in working maybe for a company. They believe in their culture and their, you know, social impact. Same as what any is doing with, with Taelor. So thank you very much for tuning in and we'll meet again very soon. Thank you. Bye-Bye.