#468 Scaling Smarter: Tyler Dunagin on Building 7-Figure Service Businesses with Purpose

Episode 468

[00:00:00] 

Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to any episode of the CT O Show with mead today. I'm very pleased joining me from the US Tyler Dunagin, Tyler, your founder, and CEO of Turnserv. Uh, but the way I love to do it, I keep it to my guests to introduce themselves. So tell us a little [00:01:00] more about you, your journey, your background, and what you're currently up to.

And then we're gonna start the discussion from there. So the floor is yours. 

Tyler: Appreciate that, Mehmet. I'm excited to do this, uh, today. Looking forward to spending some time together with you and the audience here and, uh, I can't wait to get into it. So, high level. Uh, Tyler Dunagin. I am a serial entrepreneur.

Um, I'd like to call myself a relentless entrepreneur, but my team told me to stop saying that. Um, yeah. I founded the company in 2018 called Turnserv. And what that is is a platform company serving some of the largest property managers in the us. Um, we have a, I call it a platform because we have a bunch of service brands, supply brands, products, and some, uh, tech as well on our platform.

By way of example, Turnserv as a parent company and I own. Uh, painting company called apartment painters.com. I own apartment flooring.com. Uh, liquid Liner, bathtub and Tile Refinishing. We have a patented product in the space. You know, we, we just like to stay busy. We like to do [00:02:00] impactful things, uh, within arm's reach and, uh, you name it.

If we could provide value to clients, uh, we can do it. Well, we're gonna try it. So on the business side, that's who I am. Um, you know, some, some accolades about my company, uh, so I can brag about my team. Last year we were one of America's fastest growing companies. We are the top 500 in the, in the US on the Inc 5,000 list.

Um, which is kind of cool in our space. Um, considering we're a conglomerate of tech enabled service companies. Um, you know, I've, I've been on a bunch of podcasts. I've got to talk to a ton of, um, intelligent people. Um, and, and that's really afforded me a lot of just new perspective. Uh, I was, uh, nominated for EY Entrepreneurs of the Year Award, uh, last year.

I. Cool thing. So business side, oh, and I should probably add, we got private equity back last year too. Uh, which pretty much means a, you know, um, an, uh, a firm puts in a ton of money into us and we grow the company like [00:03:00] crazy. We have been on this growth rampage, uh, since that time, and we're in five locations today, and we'll probably be in 10, uh, plus, uh, by the end of the year.

So it's just been a whirlwind. That's the business side. Family side. You know, I, I'm a father. I have three boys love classic cars. Uh, I love doing nothing, sitting around a bonfire, uh, enjoying the, the, uh, nature, traveling, uh, trying on any restaurant, the common things, you know, but I, I just really love stillness outside of work.

Mehmet: Love the energy, Tyler, and thank you for being here with me today. Just. You know, people sometimes asks me like, your show is called the CTO and why Sometimes we have like people from different backgrounds and entrepreneurs like yourself, serial entrepreneurs, and I say, I tell people, you know, you need to hear this story, right?

And you, you, you've done something really fascinating, Tyler, uh, I'm too much into entrepreneurship. Whatever your domain is, it doesn't have to be only tech, right? It can be anything and. What [00:04:00] attracted me, you know, when, you know, we were like matched together and then we started discussion is, it's not like one time, two times.

So you've scaled multiple companies to seven figures very quickly. Um, is there a kind of a structure that you have? I would say built in your mind. So whenever, let's say you are on a new, you know, like, okay, these are like the things that I need to do. Like these are like the kind of a, I don't like to call them playbooks, but you know, like frameworks or like things that I have, you know, to, to develop so I can give value to what I'm building as a company.

Tyler: Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, with us, with me specifically, it's always been things that are within arm's reach. You know, you mentioned, uh, you know, uh, the CTO side of the street and whatnot, and I, I want to preface a lot of the times I think you can see opportunities by being in a space, even if it's not.

Techie in nature, so to say. You could [00:05:00] find creative ways to enable and improve and make an impact in that space, uh, by, by, uh, deploying, uh, some sort of innovation. And that's kind of what we have done. Now, to answer your question, how do I come around? How do we start these things? We've started, I think it's at this point, it might be over five brands in the past five years, uh, that, that have done over a million dollars.

Right? Um, it's just been a crazy run. Uh, and the, the how we do that is. One, the space that we play ball in, that's something I always look at. Uh, you don't wanna be in an industry that's, that's slowly decaying. You know, if, if, if I were to try to get into print ads, uh, you know, magazine ads, it wouldn't go too well, you know, so I, I like to look at the space and make sure that it needs, uh, innovating.

I wanna make sure that it's up into the right meaning it's growing and for me. Multifamily housing was that space because of the, the nature of it, the size of it, the growth of it, and the predictableness of it. 50% of renters move every single year, [00:06:00] and so that means every apartment complex you look at, half of those people are gonna move in and move out.

Sounds pretty straightforward. But when you break it down, there's a lot that goes into that whole process. And it's not just services, that is software, that is tech, that is, uh, that is product supply, moving. You name it. There's so much that goes into it. And we're fortunate because not a lot of big players are in the space set.

And I probably shouldn't say this as much as I do. If you're looking to get into a space that's, that's really, um, you know, uh, prime for updating, look at the housing space. 'cause there's a lot to do there. But, uh, you know, to, to put a bow on, on how, how I look at things, it's always the industry first. Um, and for me, like I, I, I just play ball in the industry that I know now.

But I would always look at the space. Uh, I would look at the current solutions. What's currently being done? Is it. Is it archaic? Is there opportunity to, to grow? Is there willingness, is there, all these kind of things? If that is the case, and I get yeses across the board, uh, the, the thing I like to do the most, and anybody can do this, [00:07:00] what I like to do the most is take some something super complex, spend a couple hours in front of a whiteboard.

Break it down into simple steps. Block off each and every single thing. You know, here's the, here's the service that I want to, um, do. And when you think you have that solution, or you had the tech you want to build, whatever it is, don't start off with a thousand things in mind. Don't try to pull and push a million, uh, different buttons and levers instead, focus on one.

Key element to add immense value to the end user. Uh, I like to say specialize. Don't generalize. And I truly mean that because when you, when you generalize, that's results that you get. It's gonna be slow, it's gonna be, you know, uh, par at best versus when you specialize, uh, specialize on something. The variables go down and that allows you to build frameworks around things.

It allows you to build connections. It allows you to build scale, allows you to innovate in all of these things around that one or one or two, um, those one or two core things. So that's something else I always look at as well, uh, [00:08:00] for, uh, a quick, quick story of how we kind of do things within arm's reach.

And, um, I, I'll breeze through this really, really quickly. You know, our painting company, uh, it's pretty straightforward. An old school painting company that's tech enabled today, uh, for our clients. It plugs right into their, their CRM systems and whatnot. And, and, um, you know that that's a cool, uh, update.

But, uh, liquid Liner is our patented bathtub and tile epoxy product, which I never thought I'd be in the space by the way, but here I am. But how we got there was we actually couldn't service one of the units that we had pre-scheduled for painting. And to come to find out it was because there was somebody using it, uh, a bad product in that for bathtubs and tile and it, this made things.

Uh, unworkable. It was hazardous, you name it. And when, when I went there, I saw the person doing it and I just thought to myself, there's gotta be a better way of doing this. Fast forward 12 months later, we have a patented product. Uh, it was third party tested against Home Depot and Lowe's, and Sherwin Williams and all these guys, and it won across the board.

The [00:09:00] reason why I say that is, you know, you don't always start with, um. Or let me rephrase. You don't always end up with where you think you started from and if you are constantly on the lookout on ways to improve and update and everything else like that, things will kind of come to you with an arm's reach unless you have an epiphany and all of a sudden you see an idea.

Let's, for me, I see something in the automotive space, um, and like, oh, wow. Like there needs to be a better solution for measuring wheels. I'm just making this up. Uh, that's, that's one thing, but I find that unlikely. You're probably going to come up with things that are within arm's reach already, things that you're familiar with.

Uh, and it doesn't mean that you're gonna get the same boring results. You could really think of something like, wow, why do I do things this way? Why, why does the industry do things this way? Oh, 'cause there's not a solution here. We just try to fill gaps at the end of the day. Uh, we keep our eyes wide open and we fill gaps.

Mehmet: Again, I love this energy in you like, uh, Tyler. Now services especially is not the easiest, um, [00:10:00] business to do. Right, right. And it applies everywhere also as well, but especially in your domain. Um, there must be a lot of moving parts and there must be, you know, a lot of, you know. Bottlenecks that comes here and there.

So did what was like your approach into breaking down, you know, these challenges in, in, you know, crossing these bottlenecks, uh, as a founder so you can really cross. The famous mark of $1 million revenue because Yeah, in, in service business, and I know this because, you know, at a younger age, you know, I did something outside of the tech as well, and I'm talking when I was very, very young.

And I know like service. It's called service because you are trying to serve someone. So tell me about these bottlenecks, these challenges and the ways you use to, to cross. 

Tyler: Yeah, absolutely. So I'll, [00:11:00] I'll, I'll preface by saying. We do the multi-family industry because of the lack of variables. And here's what I mean.

Uh, if we did residential houses, think of all of the needs somebody might have, um, from painting to flooring to, you name it. Everything is custom. Everything is slow. It's, well, we'll go out in two weeks. We'll measure, we'll come back. You do it, you, you, it's slow as can be. And so for us, picking the space that we're in was critical.

To create services that are scalable. Um, even if you're not in this space though, you could still provide a scalable solution. Some of the bottlenecks that you'll, you'll, you'll start off with, and I want to emphasize on, start off with is you're not quite sure of an outcome. You're, you might be positive of a problem and you might be.

You might have an idea for a solution, but you're not crystal clear on that, and you won't be, if you're building out an MVP for example. Some of that's hypothetical, that's why you have to, why you have to build it out. But when you have an actual [00:12:00] thing that's working and running and whatnot, that's when you get the refinements.

And so some of the bottlenecks that we ran into initially at the start, were just trying to convey data to somebody. Here's the service need. Here's how we do it. Here's the tools that you need. And then they do it, and then they, they close it out and then, uh, it goes full circle. So that's how I approached it, was we need to make sure that communication and data goes full circle and we need to make sure that that currency also follows that suit or else, we're not a business, we're a charity.

And so. When you break it down that far, it helps to eliminate some of the, the, the growth restriction. But I will give some high level, um, Easter eggs here. Finding people that align with your initiatives is normally something that you need to spend a lot of time on, and that can make or break a situation.

And that's an even larger conversation in itself because then you start talking about motivating other people, managing other people, incentivizing them, uh, [00:13:00] caring for them, and all of these things. That's, so that's a big piece of it. Um, fast forward, pretend you had the people in place. Pretend you have the product in place, you have all these things.

The last thing I, I, I would probably say is a lot of the bottleneck often is the end user. You could do everything perfect. You could do everything. All of a sudden you hit a grand slam, things go, go phenomenal. But that end user as your client, your customer, whatever it might be, they might have inefficiencies that you haven't solved, that you can't solve.

They might have a high attrition rate. And our space, the average property managers on the job route. Eight months, which should tell you something, right? And so now we have to go through the whole process of educating the client all over again, every single time. And so a lot of the bottlenecks is just going to be around simplifying a, uh, a solution.

Making sure that you're solving the right problem and making sure that you can go full circle with it. And that's what, that's where we had some of the [00:14:00] issues. And a, a lot of the times, especially young entrepreneurs or people that are doing it for the first time, they're early in their journey, they focus so much on that, on that, that impact, uh, you know, their, their clever idea, Hey, this is gonna solve this, this is gonna be great.

And that's important. Be passionate about it and do those things, but you really have to be willing to shape things and chisel, chisel things based on response. Uh, NPS, uh, all those things are super critical and you need to focus on things holistically is my, my advice to, to solve that kind of, those bottlenecks that you run into.

And lastly, you gotta anticipate 'em. It's not gonna be perfect. So if you go into it thinking, Hey, there's gonna be some issues here, you're, you're set up for success. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. You mentioned something Tyler now about managing people. Right. And part of, you know, management is building the culture as well.

Yeah. Now I. But at the same time, and I'm sure you know, I, I can imagine the team around [00:15:00] you, you know, being in this, uh, high energy, uh, you know, very much, you know, passionate about the work you do. Yeah. So when you, when when you do the fast growing for any company and like. You've been also recognized, you know, in the fastest growing top 5,000 companies in the United States, you know, and you know, you're second in, in, uh, in, in the, in your state also as well.

So we saw sometimes, you know, yes you have the vision, you know, the management, but there must be something. And correct me if I'm wrong, which I think it plays a role of, you know, balancing the growth with keeping the team motivated, everything going, you know, the way you wanted it, which is I think led to culture.

So how do you build that culture that scales with the speed that you are going with? Yeah, 

Tyler: AB absolutely. And that is a challenge. Um, but [00:16:00] when you, when you figure that out, that's where the magic happens. Um, so. What we do is, uh, it's a, it's not one big thing, it's a combination of small levers, and I'll try to summarize these as, as, uh, quickly as I can.

'cause there's so much to, there's so many of them. I'll try to focus on the most impactful ones. When you talk about scale first, like obviously you need to have systems, KPIs, all of those business things in place that's necessary because if not. Your employee, your team member, whoever it is, your advisor, your consultant, they're going to, you're gonna hire them.

They're gonna have to try to figure things out as you go. Your job as a founder, CEO manager, whatever else it is, is to make another person's job as simple as you can. I. And that doesn't mean that you can't rely on them, you can't push them, you can't challenge them in a healthy way or anything like that at all.

You need to focus on their quality of life first and what goes into that. What's their day look like? How many tasks are they just doing, sitting there, counting their fingers every single day? You need to [00:17:00] look at things such as the devices that they have to work on to the environment, the atmosphere, you name it.

For us, although we're a tech enabled service and supply company, if you look at our office, we look like an Apple store. That's because we didn't want it to be muddy boots and carharts and props to everybody that wears those things. I wear those things sometimes too, but it's just the feel that's important beyond that.

So first focus is, is gotta be on simplifying things for, for your employees. The second thing is, is that culture, right? And what goes into that? When oftentimes when people say culture, they think of all the feel good things, and that's important. Uh, it is. It's, it's very much so the focus on, on how things are going at work.

Uh, I show up every day. I wanna show up and enjoy my team members and vice versa. It doesn't mean we can't have a bad day here or there or whatnot, but overall, collectively, I wanna feel good about showing up to the office. I never want to dread. And so I wanted to create a space where people were empowered.

Um, you know, accountability was outlined. Our vision is [00:18:00] outlined, our targets are outlined, everything. And so when you talk about culture, you need to really identify why you do what we do. Uh, you know, I, I have a mentor, uh, and he owns a business. Uh, he does a half a billion dollars a year selling, uh, bathroom, uh, and kitchen appliances and, and miscellaneous, uh, things, uh, you know, like, like, uh, cabinet pools and whatnot.

Uh, and he and I, I was talking with him, uh, about this very thing and he said, and he has a very good culture. People love to work for him, you name it. And he said, look, if I try to really motivate people by trying to get them excited about selling a toilet, I wouldn't do too good. And I, I kind of echoed that.

With, with us, you know? Yes. We're a painting company, flooring company, we're all these things. We're a one stop solution for multifamily clients, right? But we're more than that. We, you need to, to focus on the impact that you're making and you need to show your team that they're making it with you. So all of these things that you could, you could choose from, right?

Focus on your systems and strategy, focus on [00:19:00] quality of life. All those things are very important. But then also the other side of the street as well. Once you have an identified purpose and you have a vision, and you have core values, and that starts with the CEO and that is radiated by the team, it is an ever glowing, uh, dynamic there between everybody.

And if you are. Most, your most recent, your newest employees, your, your air quotes, four level employees. If they don't. Um, reciprocate some of that culture and values and everything else like that. That's the CEO's problem, 10 times outta 10. So to combat that, you really need to focus on those, those sort of core values.

And then once you have those things in place, you need to articulate your vision. You need to articulate your purpose, and you need to defend it. We hire and fire based off people either embracing or not embracing our core values and our purpose. And that's because the team decided on those things. The team carries that every single day.

If we get somebody and it's, uh, is what it is. If they just are, they don't wanna perform, they're [00:20:00] unhappy, whatever it might be, and we can't work with them, uh, and they are distracting the team or something, we have to go into kind of phase two with them and go into some sort of pip or move on from them.

And that's the, that's the side of the culture that you don't really ever hear about is defending it. It's always about promoting and encouraging, and that's super important, but you also have to defend that like crazy. Uh, and then lastly, so getting ahead of things is probably the most important part.

It's the, the hard conversations always come from, shoot, I never, I didn't really set the standard here. Hey, I didn't really set the bar here. I didn't really convey the expectation. But then something happens and now you have to go into like, ah, man, I feel like I should have said something here. Like beforehand, man.

Like, Hey, I'm gonna give you a chance. You know, I'm sorry, I should have told you this. You know, here you go. Get ahead of things. So we have a handbook, and normally that's a, that's a culture killing word is handbook. Quite the opposite if you use it the right way. Uh, we manage things before they happen.

How do we deal with people that distract from our, from our culture and core values? How do we get ahead of sit situations where somebody's just disgruntled, they don't wanna work anymore? How do we also articulate. [00:21:00] Support, uh, items and people that, uh, for the team members, when you have that handbook up in, uh, in, in front and that culture code is probably a better word for it.

In this dynamic, you really could avoid a lot of forest fires just by getting ahead of things and defending it when you can articulate it. Uh, expectations up front, massively important. And then take care of your team, defend it, do all those things. 'cause they will slowly start embracing that. And the last little add on the PS that I have for you my met is this, uh, all of my managers up at my company have equity in, in, in the company.

And when you could align and incentivize people just as you are incentivized as an owner, founder, high level C-suite exec, or whatever else it is. They're gonna whistle their way into work and out every single day. They're gonna be there. They're gonna be easier to manage. They are gonna manage for you even if they don't have to.

So take care of your people is the most important part. Bar none. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. I hundred percent agree with you on this. Like, taking care of the people is what makes [00:22:00] you know the company succeed right now. You gave a lot of details, Tyler. Now as a, as a. You know, you are the founder, you are the CEO, so. Is there like something you can advise like fellow entrepreneurs?

Because when the business starts to grow, so of course at the beginning you are engaged in every single decision. You are engaged in every single meeting. Maybe you are engaged in, in, in everything, in every aspect. So what is the breaking point where the founder, the CEO, should start to say, Hey. You know what?

Now it's time to maybe delegate some of the day-to-day operations to someone. And I need to go back and focus on what really matters for the business. Because again, your number one mission is to create value for the business and of course take care of your team. So what would be this breaking point from your perspective?

Tyler: Well, I'll be honest, the breaking point for me was just [00:23:00] being tired too much. Right? And, uh, that happened way too much. And I started working with an executive coach and he said, well, yeah, you're making every decision. Uh, you're passionate about the business, but also you're wearing the stress of it. And so I.

How that kind of flipped in the breaking point for me, uh, for lack of better words, was just that I knew that, you know, I, I, and I trusted my team, I trusted their perspective and all these kind of things, but I was a bottleneck. And so when I, when I realized that one, I failed it physically and mentally first.

Uh, but I, I would say, you know. If you find yourself, if everybody constantly comes to you, there's the smallest little fire, um, that pops up, the smallest thing, and people, you have 14, uh, eyeballs staring at you trying to solve it. When you really, in your head, you're like, ah, man, like, that's a very low value task.

I got, I'm, I'm better off doing something else. Hey, can you guys just, you know, come up with a solution? If you're starting to get a lot of those, you really need to take a hard check and a hard look at, are you empowering your team? Now, it can't happen. It might, but for me then [00:24:00] it, it's, it's hard to do with day one.

I, I would say this, that probably where people get this wrong is they, they think a delegation and they think of they are hiring somebody to stand on their feet all day long. They're on their heels waiting for things to hit them, and they are your shield. You know, like you have, uh, I'll make up, uh, an invisible friend here, his name is Zachary.

Okay? Uh, Zach's my newest employee. I don't tell him what to do. I just tell him like, Hey, they have questions. This answer 'em. Okay, cool. Somebody comes to my office and I say, all right, uh, hey Ty, what's the accounting? Whatever it is, here he goes, Zachary, you're up. He's gonna look at me like I have three heads, right?

So where I'm going with all this is you need to know what you're delegating is first and foremost, the most important thing is common sense is that might sound like if you've never tried to delegate to somebody without them asking you a million questions. You, you, you're gonna have to live through that a little bit, so know what you're delegating.

Uh, and then next, I think I, outside of that, how you're delegating it, how are you measuring it? How are you [00:25:00] setting up them up for success? That is probably more important than anything else. What, what looks like a, a successful outcome for that person? It's not burnout. It's not them carrying your luggage everywhere that you go, you want to make sure that they have results.

So to conclude that, my thought, my, my, my burnout moment was I was just tired. I was passionate, but my tank was empty. You know? I was like, every day I was like, let's go. And then eventually, like by the end of the week, I was like, all right guys, let's go, let's do this. And my team was like, go back to bed man.

And so, so for me, I, I, at, at certain scale, you have to delegate. And it's a chicken the egg. Did you scale because you were able to delegate, or did you delegate because you had to? I was probably right in the middle, to be honest with you. 

Mehmet: Yeah. You know, like what you described remind, you remind me with a lot of my friends actually.

Oh yeah. Like, you need to go and have some rest, some sleep, my friend. You know, like, yeah, it's, but look like it's, it's, it's common. Um, and I can understand, you know, especially when you are building something, um, you, you put your [00:26:00] soul, you put everything you have, uh, to make it successful. And of course, like this is very, very normal.

Uh, and I like when you said like, you, you start to do it and you start to get tired, right? So I, I think this is, this is one of the main signs, like, uh, a lot of entrepreneurs, they figure what, they figure it out like, okay, now it's time to, to try to do things in, in a different way. Now I want to talk a little about, you know, from asset management perspective, because I know like you've directed.

Like two $25 million in asset management. Uh, yeah. I always say a 

Tyler: quarter billion. It sounds bigger. 

Mehmet: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so, so tell me a little bit more about this and how does you know influence, you know, your, you know. Your experience, like how it, it influenced also like your way to allocate capital also as well.

So tell me more about this. 

Tyler: Yeah, [00:27:00] so in my experience, so I managed, um, around $250 million in assets, uh, for one very. Ultra high net worth individual, and the assets happen to be multi-family housing. And so, uh, you learn what goes into that from purchase to sales, to, uh, you know, uh, value add, uh, renovations, rent roll, all these kind of things.

So for, for me, I was fortunate that that was the space i I was in because one, you learn everything about operations. You see it from a high level. And not only, it doesn't just stop there, you also get the, the, um, exposure to the backend. So I was working with the yardies of the world. I was working with RealPage and all these, uh, net vendor and all these other systems at that, at that time, and learning how they connect in with the property management system.

I was, I was utilizing and beyond that. Then all of a sudden it rolls up a little bit higher. Hey, now I have, uh, the banks here. I'm working with a mortgage lender. Um, you know, we're doing a value add renovation while he's doing a draw inspection to release funds. How is that, you know, one, do your [00:28:00] projections and rent growth strategy align with the, the renovations and the market?

Um, you know, two. Is it all kosher with the actual original mortgage lender, right? And, and three is legal stamping all this stuff off. When you're around that, that caliber of, of priority, I should say, I, for lack of better words, you kind of get in tune with being air airtight on a lot of a lot of things when you have to give reports and they have tremendous.

Potentially detrimental outcomes. Not just beneficial, but potentially downfall of a whole portfolio. You tend to make sure that you double check your work. And so for me, when I was in that space and giving reports, monthlys, quarterlies, you name it, uh, understanding how every last cent, uh, every last percent of the budget, whatever it might might've been, was critical.

Really taught me to keep my ducks in a row from an operational standpoint. Um, that is the, the infrastructure and the framework of any organization. And when you have to report to somebody like a, like a mortgage lender with covenants to hit, and when you have to do certain things, [00:29:00] you understand that an idea is one thing, execution is another thing, but, but seamless execution that solves more than your desire to do it is where it really happens.

What I mean by that is doing operations that, that check, uh, check boxes for this high net worth individual that, that had ir IRR, um, you know, uh, requirements, so to say. You just kind of get, get going at this high level things and I didn't have a vast background in it by any means or anything like that.

It's kind of one step in front of the other, compartmentalize those things. And, uh, you know, eventually they just kind of slowly come around. So, uh, high, high level. Being precise in understanding how a dollar travels, uh, full scope. That's what I got most out of the, uh, the asset management time in my career.

Mehmet: Great. Now talking about still within the asset management, I gotta, you know, talk very quickly, you know about, I will ask you about fundraising, right? Yeah. And raising capital. So do you think there's a difference between raising capital for a service based business [00:30:00] versus like what, you know, you've seen in the tech, uh, startup or, or fundraising is at the end of the day fundraising, you're gonna, one of my guest, uh.

Uh, you know, again, you mentioned like you have to kiss a lot of frogs. Ah, so, yeah. So I believe it's the same, but I I would love to hear your, your, your, you know, your experience. 

Tyler: Yeah. So I'll say this. If you have a service based company, you gotta make sure you can scale it here. Here's what I like to do, and it'll answer this question.

Flip perspectives of that vc, of that pe uh, of that just solo investor really. And just really be honest with yourself. What does this type of investor look for? Right? Do I have something that they, that I could deploy their capital meaningfully and hit their goals? Right? Again, thinking of the other person here to answer your question.

When I first started, about what started, uh, you know, coming up with the idea of Churner and what it could be. I'll be honest, I pitched like 40 different people and they all looked at me like, [00:31:00] that's cool, man. Good luck, you know? And I'm like, oh man. Like, not even like a, uh, well, we'll get back to you. Just a no right off, right off the bat.

And that could be a combination of the space, it could be my lack of like, traction at that time. It could have been a lot of things, right. I'm fortunate to have gone through that, but I remember just like. When I was trying to raise that initial money for services, it really just felt like it was like a no after, no, after, no.

And that's when I realized like, hey, you gotta make sure this model scales not just, you know, outta your mouth, but like on paper. Like, show the budget, show where it can go. That's what investors care about. If you can't give them a better return than the s and p, what are you doing? Right? So like that's, that's my thought on that.

Whereas. Um, and I'll, I'll give a little strike here too. I'm actually raising funds right now for my ser uh, my software, um, uh, startup. And, uh, I won't give too many details. It is a lending solution in the multifamily space, right? And it's gonna be super cool. It's gonna impact a lot of people. Um, and we have like a.

We almost have an MVP built for, for, to show you what scale, what's, what phase it's at. And I've sent out some feelers and whatnot. [00:32:00] Uh, I've gotten numerous responses, uh, on it already, and I don't say that to brag. I say it for comparison's sake. You know, I, I have traction at this point. I have a little bit of like, validation behind me and I, I understand how to, how to talk to that lender or to that investor, whoever it might be, and say, Hey, here's what I need and here's what you need.

Here's how we get there. Versus, Hey, here's what I need. How can I get there? Really gotta frame it another way. So my experience so far has been, uh, starting off services and trying to get funding for that, quite the task. Uh, but fast forward, we did get private equity backed for a service company, which is kind of cool.

And, but that took a lot of, of. Hey, show me what you can do. Show me what you've done, and show me how you 10, 20, 30 accessing at scale. And so that's, that's where it all came around versus with, with tech, uh, much easier to scale if it's built the right way. Right. So I, I think that there was a difference between the two and, uh, I would say just because of where I started at.

Raising money for services started off a little bit harder, but [00:33:00] now I could call, make a call tomorrow and raise a million dollars if I had to, but it took me a long time to get this, this spot, and that's not, that's not normal. Um, it, it, I had to swim in deep water for three years before I could ever get a response on the phone, to be honest with you.

Mehmet: Yeah. And it's not a surprise, I would say Tyler, because this is, uh, um. And the reason I keep asking this question, maybe, you know, the, the audience would know by now because I want to let them get the idea that raising funds is not easy. Right. So it's, it's, it's a, it's a journey and you're gonna get a lot of nos.

You're gonna get ignored. Uh, the important thing, if you believe in what you're doing, you keep doing it. And of course, like starting like. By your own, with your own fund and proving that. Yeah. Like to your point, this is a scalable model. This is what would actually, at some stage, you would attract investors to you rather than you going to them.

[00:34:00] Uh, but you need to, to show that you have skin in the game as, as you mentioned. Yeah. Now I gotta jump on something interesting also as well, which you mentioned a little bit in, in the introduction, and I see you've done fantastic job when it comes to personal branding, and I think this is. Underrated, honestly.

And when I tell people about personal branding, people think different things, but I know like you have done it the right way. So you've been featured in over 40 publications. You get nominated for Entrepreneur of the Year. Um, so when actually you figured out that you need to work on this and. What were the benefits actually of, of building, you know, your own personal brand, Tyler?

Tyler: Yeah, absolutely. So I think for me, um, the, the first phase of it, and it's not, not like I was trying to do a lot of PR or anything like that at all. It was just that, you know, like everybody lives [00:35:00] through this and, and at least my age, um, you know, I started, I'll make a good real time example. I started off on Facebook in like when the, the year that it came out.

Right. I was in my teens right when that happened. Right. You're a different person in your teenage years versus like your, like who you are today. Not necessarily a bad person or anything like that at all. But, you know, for me a good example was, you know, I, my, my feed was nothing but like, I don't know, four wheelers and workout videos and things like that.

And, and then all of a sudden you start like, uh, you know, you start talking to people that you respect and you want them to respect you. You want to do business together, something like that. It's not necessarily like hiding from who you are slash work. But it's like trying to, like, for me, I just wanted to clean up like, okay, I wanna make sure I speak to the person I am today versus who I was.

You know, like when I was like, you know, 18, 17 years old. And so when I first started it was just that like, hey, like I actually had like two Facebooks, uh, I think my MySpace was deactivated by then. Hopefully, uh, you know, I don't know. Uh, but my, my first goal was just generally just clean it up and I got [00:36:00] on LinkedIn and I, I.

You know, I just had the normal placeholder, uh, social media handle and, and whatnot. And that was it. That was it. I would go to a lot of networking events, but it would stop there. Fast forward, uh, you know, we get, we get some early funding for, for Churner and I was like, cool. I wanna make sure I'm a great steward of capital here and I wanna make sure that these guys are proud to do business with me.

And I never give them an, uh, any, any sort of like possible opening of like, ah, yeah, that's. That's, that's our founder. You know, that's, that's the entrepreneur behind us. And so for me, it started off just trying to make sure that I, I fit a certain image and, and it was reflective of who I was. But fast forward, uh, you know, when we started talking to private equity and I started, I, I, I, I'm in a few mentor circles as well, so sometimes on the mentor, sometimes on the mentee and just talking with them, you, you, you realize that, you hear about.

A lot of the same problems over and over again. You realize that circle's not huge and so like you're just looking for anybody that's been through it or that's open-minded that you can just talk to. And so for me it was a lot of just wow, like I [00:37:00] normally have to call a private mentor and, and schedule something.

He might be three months out, but that's cool. And so then, then I started doing, uh, the podcast side of the street and that way I could talk about some of the things I was passionate about. And my goal initially was. If I could help somebody in any sort of way, not saying I'm, I'm more clever than them or more, more able or anything like that, but just have lived through that experience.

That's what I wanted to do. And that slowly became this giant snowball of, now I realize the importance of that. Uh, if somebody seeing, uh, Matt, I'll use your podcast if somebody sees me on this. And if, if they take away one thing out of this, that helps them amazing. Uh, but also outside of that, if they, if they recognize my company's name in a city that we're, we're ramping up with and it just one little shred of like, oh, like validation or credibility.

I'm like, that's beneficial. So it's really just, just twofold. Now, on the individual side as well, I think it's very important that you set a good standard, right? And, um, it's reflective of who you are. But I can't ask my team members to, to be a certain [00:38:00] way and do all these kind of things when I'm just kind of like, you know, in, in the, in the background, not doing much.

I started, I'm gonna be full cards on the table and then met. Here's, here's my goal. When I started doing a lot of the, the press and pr, uh, my goal was recruiting and I wanted to attract people like who I had in my, my offices. Meaning on the culture side of things. Um, I didn't care their background. I didn't care where they came from.

I don't care. Anything like that at all. I wanted to find open-minded, motivated people to come work for me because we were just hypergrowth hyperscale. And so I was just constantly putting myself out there of like, oh, someone's gonna see this. Like, you know, Hey, we have some cool positions open and if they don't see it today, maybe we'll see it two years from now.

We'll still need people then. And so that all came back to personal brand. Uh, fast forward, uh, I can't believe this is like, probably like my 60th podcast by this point. Right. And it's, you hear a lot of the same things and it's like, Hey, how can people access you? Like, you know, tell us about your journey.

Well, that's when I, I [00:39:00] have up my personal website now, which is dunnigan collective.com, and the reason why I have that is one, it's just accessibility. If anything, if I, if I get nothing more out of this except for to be able to connect with people in the space and I could provide a little bit of value to them and vice versa, that that's a win for me.

But personal brand image, all of those things, super important. Uh, and that's, I want to know, I want the, the world and the industry to know what we're up to and what we're doing. 'cause I'm proud of it. I'm, I'm proud of my journey and how far I've came. I'm proud of my team. Uh, I'm excited to see what happens from here.

Uh, and it's way easier if, if I. Uh, um, if I can get an extra meeting or if I can, you know, whatever it might be, if I need something and my, my personal brand, uh, helps me get it, that's a net benefit. You know, that's end of the day, that's why we're all, all doing this. It's just exposure and trying to spread a purpose and impact, make an impact.

So for me, if I could do that by, by doing a lot of these things, working on brand and whatnot, why not is, is my thought 

Mehmet: ab Absolutely. And uh, [00:40:00] you mentioned something I think fundamental Tyler, which. I think you mastered it. It's, uh, building trust. Right. And, you know, it's not like about, I like, you know, your way.

Like it's not about showing for the, you know, purpose of showing, it's about building the trust. So when people, for example, they come up with your. Company name. So prob you know, like this is something I do. So if I meet someone the first time and he says, or she says, Hey, like, I'm ex from this company. So the first thing I do, I go search the company and then I start to search, you know, who's the founder, you know, and then I say, oh, like this is Tyler.

He's the CEO. Oh look like he, he talks about this. He help people in that. So, you know, this is build trust. Even if. I never met you. Right. Yeah. And I think it's also something which un people underestimate sometime. Um, so there is a, [00:41:00] uh, you know, you, you need to be, you know, have this, you know, mentality of, it's not something that you can build overnight, right?

So it's something which com you know, it's like the, it's, it compounds over time. Like it goes incremental step by step. But believe me, I'm telling this to the audience. You see the result after some time, and I was lucky enough, although like the podcast is not that old, it's like two and a half years now.

So the thing I've seen, because I watch, you know, I keep, I. Of course we're gonna do this with you, uh, Tyler, so we keep in touch, right? So we check like every six months, like every nine months, sometime more shorter. So I've been following some of the people that, you know, I build this friendship also as well, and I started to see their journey like right, so.

When they came to my podcast. So for me, like I'm, I'm, I'm very lucky, it's like your 60th podcast. But I mean, some of them, they were like their second, their third podcast maybe they tried some [00:42:00] articles in and there, but I watched their progress and when I checked on them couple after like couple of months, they said, you know what?

Like your podcast, that podcast, so it all together build. Us kind of a credibility in the domain they are in, whatever that domain is. So this is, and I'm telling people today, yes, we still do. You know, business with companies, but people tends now to more trying to understand who's behind, who's the face behind the company.

Yes. So, a and I like, you know, your way of building it, building the credibility, which is a hundred percent, uh, you know. I believe nowadays is the way to go. You know, I figured it out also as well. I mean to again, to, to, because I wanted to do something. So I started with the podcast. I'm lucky enough you don't have to be the host here.

Yeah. So I get, I get to, to be there every time, but I knew from day one, and to your point, Tyler, Tyler, as. Success [00:43:00] doesn't happen overnight. Right. Right. And people, they were expecting some of the nices, let's say, oh, you're gonna leave the podcast after 10 episodes 'cause this is what usually happens. Yep.

But what happened with me, like I liked it, you know, it became my passion to speak with, you know, awesome people like yourself. Tyler, here on the podcast, I learned a lot, you know, and I say, look, if I manage. To get the message from the guest, which is today is you, Tyler. If someone in the world, whatever he or she is, they listen and they take something right away.

For me, I feel I fulfilled, you know, my mission. Absolutely. Because my mission is to, is yeah, to, to get people like yourself, experienced people, show their experience, sh share like what they are seeing in the market, and then someone benefit of it. It's beautiful. And I, I, I think you, you're done also fantastic work on, on that side also as well.

Thank you. So, yeah, my pleasure. So before we wrap up, like if, if I want to ask you like maybe [00:44:00] final thing, uh, about. The founder mindset, because I need to ask you this. Yeah. So what are kind of the habits routine that you think, you know, can help founders, especially now we are in kind of uncertainties, market goes up, market goes down, people might come and say, Hey man, like, you know, like, I think the business you're in is.

Yeah, it, it'll not be successful. Yeah. There will be a lot of naysayers also as well. So what kind of the things that you advise founders to do to stay grounded? 

Tyler: I think the most important thing is first understanding why you're doing what you're doing, because that is going to solve a lot of questions that's gonna pop up on this founder journey.

There's no nice way of saying it. It's an emotional rollercoaster. You have your highest highs and your lowest lows, and your job is to stay even keel. When you understand why you do what you [00:45:00] do and you serve that purpose, it's easier to stay focused on a target that even if it. Tends to move. Sometimes market swings, tariff wars, elections, whatever it might be, right?

Just stay focused on, on, on that, on why you're doing what you do. It doesn't mean that you can't adjust or maybe you even pivot in the future or what have you. But if, if you are super reactive, if you're in an emotional state and you're uncertain of why you're starting a business, somebody said, Hey, you should start this business.

Go do it. Okay, like, let's go for it. Like my, I got a $40,000 inheritance. Let, let me go try this. That's cool if you did it. Uh, but really understand why you're doing what you're doing. Do you wanna help people? Do you wanna, is it more so a fulfillment for you? Do you want legacy wealth? Do you, it doesn't matter what it is, there's no right or wrong answer there, but really just sticking true to, to, to what you're doing, um, is, is probably the, the most important thing.

I'd say the next thing is probably. Uh, one, understanding yourself to reemphasize is the most important thing. How you respond, how you think, how you act. You should know your tells. You should be, be able to [00:46:00] really honest with yourself first and foremost, and have thick skin. You should anticipate some, some curve balls in getting hit by the pitch every day.

Um, so that's first. Second, I would say probably the people you surround yourself with. Uh, if you look at your circle and it's full of people that are just doing nothing but, uh, speculating or doomsday preppers or, or whatever it might be, you should probably probably look at yourself. 'cause you're probably similar to them.

Right? And, and the reason why that's important is I. You're probably only as stable as your immediate circle is. Instability is important, uh, as a founder, right? I, I hear it all the time. Uh, burnout, mental health issues, uh, you know, like what off the deep end, somebody went crazy. Uh, and I empathize, sympathize for those people so much, but it's probably because one, they were afraid to reach out, uh, to somebody, uh, or lean on somebody.

And if their support cast around them is, is people that have done what they have done or less. They're gonna get a really biased perspective. Whereas if you [00:47:00] can constantly put yourself in a room, my goal was to be the dumbest person in every room. I went in for like a matter of like two years. And I don't say that to like just, you know, to joke about it.

I was there to learn, I was there to like be open ears and not have a clue what these guys or, or ladies were talking about. And just understand, um, you know, hey, what's her perspective, what's her thought process? And you know what they, the funny part was we met a lot of the times, it wasn't even about the technical thing.

In reference, it was always about the framework of decision making is normally what it always came down to. What is going into those decisions? What's, what's, you know, what's, what's pushing it one way or another. Understanding that was almost more important than, than trying to get to the actual answer itself.

So surrounding yourself with people is, is pretty important as well. Uh, and, and talk about the founder journey. I, and last part I'll talk about is this, because there's so much that goes into it. If you love what you do, you know why you do it. You have a, a decent support team around you and all those kind of things.

The last thing you really need to focus on and, [00:48:00] and I say last in this, it might be the first thing you need to focus on is your work life integration. And I don't just mean how much time you spending in the office. I mean, does your work fulfill you? Does it, does it include your family? Does it include your family?

People talk about work-life balance immensely, and I view it more so like a work-life integration, right? And so, uh, look, there's things that pop up during the day and I have to tend to them. It has nothing to do with business. I. At home, there's times where I'm down a rabbit hole of thought and I'm gonna live there for two hours, you know, and it doesn't necessarily make me a bad dad, right?

Like, uh, I, I include both on both sides of the street from time to time, have your boundaries, have all those things and whatnot. But for me, having that integration is really helpful. I. Um, and I'd, I'd say the average day of the founder. To summarize all these things, uh, wake up with a game plan. You have your goals and agenda set.

You have to get these things done today. Make that list before you go to bed, but also block off time. I literally call it curve ball time, block off time to, to take some [00:49:00] swings, and then just try to do impactful things every day. Try to get progressively better, um, you know, work hard, all those things. But it, it is not a, a sprint.

It is truly a marathon. And, um, you know, that does, it's not an excuse to, to be lazy or anything like that at all. But at the same time, 1% improvement every single day is better than nothing or going backwards. So. All those things said, that's, that's kind of the thought, the day-to-day of a, of a founder, um, dealing with, with pressure.

You really get, get hardened in, in, uh, in a good way because, uh, the small things that used to bother you, they don't even hit your radar really anymore. Like, uh, just day in and day out. You, you. You have a, you try to have as much framework in, in place that you can with the understanding of something's gonna surprise you that day.

And when you anticipate it, your life's okay. You're not gonna be overwhelmed or stressed out as much as if you were hoping for nothing but perfection in that day. So, long story short, that is my journey. Uh, my day to day is a founder. Sometimes, uh, likely to change, uh, depending on the day of the week, [00:50:00] but on average, that's it.

Mehmet: Fascinating. Uh. Again, I can see the passion. Tyler, you, you definitely love what you do. I can see this. I would do it for free. 

Tyler: I, if they told me I had to leave the building, I'd say, could I surrender my salary instead? And I would still do this. I love it. 

Mehmet: Yeah. So, so this is what makes, you know, everyone successful and you know, um, to your point also as well, we've seen, you know, the most successful entrepreneurs, and I think everyone knows this concept, which is the.

Uh, the Ikigai, the, the Japanese, you know, where, where you find something you are passionate about, something that people want and something that can, you know, let you earn money. So if you manage to get like these three, so you are in the sweet spot of having the perfect life because actually you would be, there's another thing, I, I forget who said like, but if, if, if you.

Do what? Or you work in what you love. So you're gonna be on vacation all your, all [00:51:00] your life. Yeah. 'cause act, because actually, um, I forget who said the call, but I mean, it's, it's something I'm big believer in it and sometime I feel, sorry. Really sorry. I feel really, really extremely sorry. I can't, you know, emphasize enough for people who totally waste years and years from their lives sitting in places.

That everyone knows that they don't like it, but they are forced to do, and the reason they, it's not like because they are forced, but of course they didn't try to go and find out what they're really passionate about and see how they can do it. I'm happy because we are living in a time now, Tyler, where I.

Things are more available. We have abundance of knowledge. Everyone that wants to start a business, in my opinion, people say, yeah, like you're talking like very romantic and like as everything is rosy as, yeah, I know it's not easy. I've talked to a lot of. Of people here on, on the podcast, they came from very difficult [00:52:00] backgrounds.

Sometimes they, they, they saw a lot of difficulties, challenges. But if, as you said, if you love what you do, you're passionate about what you do, you're gonna succeed. So I think you are a ultimate success storyteller and thank you for being here with me today. Final thing where people can, you know, reach out to you.

You mentioned the website, but is there any other way and, you know, if they want also to learn more about your current work as well, any, any guidance you can give us. 

Tyler: So individual website, dunnigan collective.com. Just my last name, collective.com. Uh, I'm super active on LinkedIn. Uh, as long as it's not an automated message, I'll respond.

Uh, it might take me a second, but I promise I'll get to it and just reach out to me on, on, uh, on the socials. You know, I, as funny as it sounds, I'm on Instagram, I'm, I'm on TikTok, I'm on all those things. Find a way to, to get ahold of me. Um, you know, LinkedIn's probably the best bet. My direct website's probably the best bet.

And then lastly. If you need something done on your property, go to terms serve.com and we got you. 

Mehmet: Exactly. So for the audience, you guys, you don't need to go and you know. [00:53:00] Rewind for a couple of seconds ago to get the links. All the links will be available, uh, in the show notes if you're listening on your favorite podcasting app or if you're watching this on YouTube.

Tyler, again and again, thank you very, very much. I really enjoyed the discussion with you today. I love the energy. I repeat myself many times, but I can't, you know, uh, because, uh, the whole thing as I was explaining, the whole thing about this podcast is to encourage people to go and do something meaningful, right, and inspire people.

In any form. So thank you for being here with me today. And finally, this is for the audience. This is how I end my episodes. Guys, if you are one of the people who are. The people who just follow us and you know, support us. Thank you very much. You're doing fantastic job. You're letting us, you know, really rank very high in the Apple Podcast across multiple countries this year, which is something I'm really, really blessed to have such support from my audience.

And if you are one of the people who just discovered us [00:54:00] now, thank you for passing by. I hope you enjoyed if you did, so give us a thumb up share with your friends and colleagues and hope. You know, we see you again here, and as I say, always stay tuned for a new episode very soon. Thank you. Bye-bye.