Feb. 26, 2023
#46 The Future of MSPs and Tech Adoption: A Conversation with Dave Sobel
In this episode, I sit down with Dave Sobel, an experienced entrepreneur and host of the Top 100 Tech News Podcast, "The Business Of Tech". Dave shares his journey into the technology industry and what motivated him to start his own podcast. He also discusses his focus on the Managed Services (MSP) Model for his business and the challenges that MSPs face in the cybersecurity space.
Dave provides insights into how MSPs can drive technology adoption for small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs) and what he sees as the market moving and the trends in the MSP space. He also shares his advice for keeping up with the ever-changing world of tech and his tips for people working as consultants in the tech industry.
Join us as we get to know Dave Sobel, and gain insights into the world of MSPs and the latest trends in the tech industry.
You can listen to Dave's Podcast here: https://businessof.tech/
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Hello, and welcome to a new
episode of the city or show with
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Muhammad.
My name is Muhammad, I share
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daily insights about, the latest
trends in technology, while
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discussing their business
benefits and their applications.
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I also talked about startups,
entrepreneurs, and new products
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and services.
They bring to us today, I'm very
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pleased to have with me.
They've Sobel, who is joining me
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from Washington DC in the United
States and Dave is a very out
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I'd say experience technology
guy, but of course, I will leave
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it up to him to introduce
himself.
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So Dave introduce yourself and
services that you offer.
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Oh well thanks for having me.
Some Dave, Sobel, I am a host of
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The Business of Tech podcast.
It's a daily 5 minute news
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analysis, show talking about
that the delivery of IT
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services.
So so I was for every dollar of
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Microsoft Revenue.
There's eight dollars of
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services Revenue associated with
their partners and Focus on the
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eight dollars.
I come from the space.
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I ran it to provider myself for
about a decade.
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You know, was a community guy
and I Microsoft MVP wrote a
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book, launch peer groups in
Europe like all that kind of
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stuff and then sold that
business worked for software
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vendors for about eight years.
Sold the first one to AVG.
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We sold the second one to
solarwinds and I then started
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this endeavor to change the way
we talk to the IT services and
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the kind of coverage that.
Evans.
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And here I am.
It's for three and a half years
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later.
Cool.
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Did you say like five minutes
every day?
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Is that right for the podcast?
It is it's a it's a 5.
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It's I am 45 minutes every
single day.
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Okay?
So some people told me, you are
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crazy because you decided to do
a daily podcast but I'm happy
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that I'm not the only one doing
this.
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Although like mine's not only 5
minutes sometimes longer like
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especially when I have guests
with me.
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So they've just Can you tell me,
like, what was your?
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I would say main motivation to
start the podcast.
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Well, the podcast came from from
a view of the media space that
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deals with it services.
That sort of says there's not
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enough industry 40 covering this
space in a way that's actionable
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for those business owners.
And I spent a decade doing that
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business and I spend another
eight years selling software to
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it.
So spent a lot of time thinking
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about how they work And when I
went and look at kind of the
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media, always draw the circuit
triangle and I say there's the
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technology press, right?
So the word CNET, you know, the
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kinds of they love Silicon
Valley, they love startups.
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They love Venture funds and of
IPOs that love gadgets are kind
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of like allergic to services.
And then you go to the business
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side and you've got, you know,
CNBC in the Wall Street Journal.
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Same kind of wrap, right?
They like consumer Tech.
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They like IPOs, they like the
stock market.
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Market, they love Venture funds
that like allergic to Services
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firms.
And then, when I go to the look
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at the ones that are
specifically in this area, in
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this Niche, they're very voice
of the vendor, right, they're
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very focused on the the
technology vendors that sell to
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them, not the view of the the
provider to their customer, and
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there's kind of like if you're a
traditionalist that comes from
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the it Channel and IT services.
You understand that this
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technology Instead of these
services company, so there's two
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sides to it, there's the vendor
side, the vendor to partner side
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and then there's the partner to
customer side and they spend all
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their time on this side and not
enough some type stuff on this
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side.
The part that actually makes the
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money, but the part that's
actually the most important,
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because if you're not serving
your customers needs on your
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customers terms.
Well, then you're not relevant
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to them and I said, well, I can
complain about this problem or I
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could do Think about it.
Who honestly?
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Like this is the same out a
motive that drove me also to
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start a podcast because
especially in my region, there's
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not a lot of there's a lot of
business focused podcast or a
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lot of other Niche podcast, but
in the technology space and
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relating that to also the
business.
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So, I'm not saying I'm the first
one, but also like, this is kind
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of a dictation for customers or
for anyone who's interested in
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Tech to know.
What's going on in the market
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now?
Yep.
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I don't like MSP is something
that personally it's a business
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model that I always you know,
wanted to understand more and
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but you have something special
because you work also in the
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vendor side as I did as well.
So how did you see this
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difference from from you know
between MSP went aside and
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overall like your perspective on
the it?
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Service industry overall.
Like how do you think it?
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It was how it's doing now and
when it is going in the future,
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this is so there's a lot to
unpack in that.
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So I love the core value that.
I've always loved about what I
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do.
What I've done since day, one is
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helping customers, be effective
with technology.
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I think that's that tour
statement that core value is as
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relevant today.
As it was 25 years ago.
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When I, when I get that bid is
is a constant but what I will
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also say is that it has got Both
more capable and more complex at
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the same time, you know, getting
the DeLorean, right, we go back
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to the future, we go back to,
you know the the late 90s or the
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early aughts and focus is a
technology.
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Provider was providing the
technology you went from
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customers generally not having
anything to having something or
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the very Basics, right?
Like they had to know the basics
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of hardware and software and
that was enough and today It's,
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you actually generally assume
they already have those bits.
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Like, there's not really any
customer now that doesn't have
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some technology, right?
And it's probably pretty much
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more robust than what we would
have talked about 20-25 years
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ago, but more importantly, they
are, they can do so much more
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right.
The cloud enables so much more
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or you can sign up for
cutting-edge Technologies, just
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with a credit card in a
subscription.
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But all of the needs are also
that much more complex, you
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know, the idea Of security, 20
years ago, was fighting code red
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and making sure you just weren't
out right?
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And now it's you know complex
extortion, run by criminal
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organizations that can you know
that you need insurance against
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that there's compliance.
There's a lot legal challenges.
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There's just so much more
complexity and so I say like
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it's harder to be in this space
than it's ever been before.
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That doesn't mean that it's not
a great space and then it's not
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You can make a good blueprint
gotta to build good businesses
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in this space.
It's just way harder and there's
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a lot more.
You've got to be good at a lot
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more rent.
Ask I think we need to have much
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more nuanced conversations about
that.
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Cool.
And actually I want to add to
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what you said about the risks
because I shared couple of
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times.
Whether before I start the
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podcast or after I started it,
that MSP is usually are part of
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a bigger supply chain.
So when it comes to cyber risks,
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do you see it like something on
the rise?
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In addition to the other
challenges do you think should
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be the number one priority to
focus on the cyber security
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space for msps?
So the answer to this is not not
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as simple as yes or no.
Is that the normal woman, like,
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I hate the cyber security specs.
Like, I actively loathe it.
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It's kind of gross.
Like, I don't want to spend my
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customers money on
cybersecurity.
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I could just, I just don't, it's
a bottomless pit.
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You throw money at.
And you'll never actually get to
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quote unquote secure, right?
Because every actual nuanced
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conversation with security is
about risk management.
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Management.
And I could throw infinite money
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about.
I got this and never actually
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eliminate the risk.
Well, it's kind of a horrible
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problem, like it, it's awful.
Now, I'll also then carry it to
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say I'm not crazy, right?
I'm not like the saying like
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never spend money on security,
what I'm just sort of saying is
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isn't the top thing?
No the actual top thing is
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helping customers grow their
business.
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I actually want to spend my time
on revenue-generating activities
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for Now, I'm not crazy.
And I know that I have to
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protect that revenue, and I have
to make sure that there are that
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they, that they are not in a
position where it's stolen from
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them, or it's taken from them.
And so it is an integrated part,
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but at the same time, I don't
even want to say, like it's the
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top priority, that is priority
because it's, I wish it went
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away.
I wish it wasn't actually
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something we did.
And I also, oftentimes, push
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back and I say I want want us as
technologists to Ask better
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questions about how we can make
this problem.
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Actually be harder for the
criminals.
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They shouldn't have it as easy
as they do, and we should do
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things fundamentally to the
technology to make it harder for
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them to be successful.
Well, that's a very interesting.
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I would say opinion, which it
opened the door to the other
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question that, you know, it's
bring it brought to my mind very
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quickly.
So, I agree with you.
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Like it's again, it's not about
just spending money for the
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saying of sake of spending
money, but do you think and now
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I'm not talking about msps in
Vietnam, I'm talking about us.
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People working in technology?
Do you think that we are not
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doing enough awareness?
We're not doing enough, you
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know, like education to to
customers to, you know, instead
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of just pushing them to put
money or maybe something that
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will not protect them.
Hundred percent, where do you
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say I think it's the Gap here.
Well.
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So the answer is sure.
We're not training them enough,
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right?
Like, okay, actually, trying to
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push the burden, all the way out
to the user and and I look
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again, I'm practical.
I'm in the real world that I
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would say.
Yeah, of course, you'd better be
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doing a good job training, your
users right, human engineering
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is, you know, and social
engineering, is the number one
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threat to businesses.
And you really do need to be
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doing your bit.
But why are we having smart
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conversations about the the core
Technologies themselves?
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Let me take, for example, SMTP,
right?
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We've had this mail protocol for
40-plus years.
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Yeah.
Why don't we have a version that
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has identity in it.
Like, why is, why are you even
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able to send any old random
Anonymous email that spam and
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fished that?
Why do we allow that?
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And at anybody's and I let me,
let me say every well it's, you
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know, but we'll have some TP,
it's a It's been around.
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Yeah so was St television and we
got rid of that.
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So was AM radio and we got rid
of that like with there's a long
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list of old technologies that we
replace with new technologies
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because they are better and do
the job better.
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But oh heaven forbid SMTP is
sacred, we can't touch it.
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What like, well maybe, maybe
there's a lot of people making
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money off of the fact that SMTP
isn't that great.
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And maybe that's why we're not
actually taking the time to fix
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it.
Why don't we ask Julie asked the
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disruptive questions of this.
I'm not saying this is, this is
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a, not a nor this is an ant, we
should, yes.
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Absolutely be training.
Our users, to make sure that
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they are not victims of social
engineering attacks, and we
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should be creating environments
for them that are more secure,
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bye-bye, actual engineering, and
get rid of technologies that do
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not allow us to do that.
Yeah.
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That that's I have to agree with
you right, great.
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Like another thing which is just
shifting away from from cyber
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security, but overall, like how
you're saying, you know, the
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speed of Technology adoption
because, you know, when we talk
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about MSP usually, and this is
why I have like this special
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Caleb, Atem ESPYs because
usually msps, they serve like
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small medium businesses.
How do you see?
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This is like important when you
know past technology adoption
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for these businesses that might
not be, you know, be able to get
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these big tags and you know, all
these things.
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So, so what's your take on this?
Well, so an 87% of all IT
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services companies in msps or
like less than ten million
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dollars in Revenue.
Right.
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And if I do, I'm looking at
that, you know, in That's a very
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u.s. slanted set of data.
But, you know, it's a great
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great Market to look at.
And I'm a big fan of, like most
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businesses or small businesses
there really are like they're,
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they're really, you know, we
like to talk about the big
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businesses because they're
interesting and they're in
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easier, Story cover, but most
businesses are actually small.
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I pushed back a little bit on
the idea that the technology
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isn't available.
One of the great things about
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both the internet and the cloud
is that it makes Cutting Edge
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technology available to anyone.
You can go get the coolest
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grapes off.
I've just by signing up for a
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SAS application.
Like it's really not all that
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hard anymore.
It's, you know, customize and
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available for your own size and
speed anybody can get
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Salesforce, for example, like
it's available for anybody.
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So I'm not entirely convinced
that that's the.
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The difference what I will say
is, is that going a whole lot
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faster?
We're all talking, it's a great
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time to be talking about it aii,
right?
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And chat.
GPT is taken the world.
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Let's know that it's adoption
to.
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Users what, you know, in a
couple of weeks was the fastest
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technology consumer technology
adoption in history, you know,
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beats beats everything else
that's shows how incredibly
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available these Technologies are
and now we've got statistics
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where more than one in four
users are actually using it now
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in their day-to-day job already.
You know, it's it's it's crazy
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fast.
I mean, it's I've been saying AI
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is shut what we used to call
Shadow it on speed, you know,
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where it's got the injection of
that that great drug and it's
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just going so fast like it's
it's and now you more than ever.
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You need technology advisors
working with business people to
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make sure that they are make
right choices on how they use
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it.
You know, again, chat upc's are
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great.
Example, one of the things that
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we're learning right now is is
true, but people need to
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understand how to use it because
did, you know, it's learning,
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right?
Like it's taking those inputs
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and if you give it confidential
information, it's going to pop.
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But actually put that in the
training model.
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Perhaps you don't you the user
don't want to do that and we
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need we need help users be more
effective and learn how to use
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these Technologies in ways that
help them.
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Not hurt them.
Yeah, actually I saw an optical
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I think two days back A lot of
people they don't know and they
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are using it in the their
working space, right?
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So they are just, for example,
you can you advise me how to I
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do this?
And then they putting their
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company's data over there and
yeah but it's going back to the
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model so it's quite scary.
Just also I'm wondering about
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something and especially because
from from that perspective and
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how this is changing back there
in the u.s. so did you see like
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some more adoption for getting a
help from an MSP during you
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know, this remote or phase?
And now people are talking about
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back to office.
So how how does the market at
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least from from that side of the
world is moving now?
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Today's yeah, yeah, you will
only look at that.
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What happened?
You know, as the pandemic head
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and I was like, down here it's,
you know, technology moves
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really fast to help businesses,
be effective.
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And a lot of businesses were
made remote very easily and they
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did it by the head with the help
of IT services companies and Ms.
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Patients.
Now, that Genies out of the
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bottle and we're finding that a
lot of businesses are now
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re-examining to understand how
do we Effective with this, you
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know there everyone wants a
binary answer, right?
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Everyone wants the well, it's
going to be remote, it's gonna
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be from work back in the office.
It's like everyone wants an easy
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binary answer and the real
answer is a lot messier than
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that.
It's actually going to be the
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yucky middle of humans in the
middle figuring out the right
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way to do it.
You know, I've been I live here
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just outside Washington DC and
I'm watching the federal
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00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:46,200
government figure.
This set of moves out where they
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00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,900
figure out You know how much of
their people are going to be in,
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00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:52,300
how much is your knee out and
you want it to be like easy like
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00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:54,300
other in the office.
Now what's actually happening is
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00:17:54,300 --> 00:17:57,500
teams or figuring out the ways
to be effective, what makes
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sense.
For individual teams for
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00:17:58,708 --> 00:18:01,700
individual people, forward
individual organizations, and
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00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:04,400
they're coming up with a messy
middle, you know, some in the
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office some and somehow what's
most effective for the task?
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00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:10,900
And what I want people to be
looking at is the core principle
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00:18:10,900 --> 00:18:13,400
again.
Like I said, earlier, you want
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00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,400
to help businesses be effective
with technology that Finding the
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00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,600
best way.
And in this case, it's gonna be
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00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,000
kind of messy.
It's going to be about using the
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00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,700
technology effective, not three
days in two days out.
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00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,900
That's arbitrary.
That doesn't make.
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00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:31,900
That isn't it?
I, that isn't an answer.
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00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,400
That's just trying to overcome
by it.
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00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:40,100
Yeah, that's that's pretty much
logical when I was, you know,
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00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:43,200
like you're checking your
profile.
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00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,500
I think about that.
You have wrote a book actually
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00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:51,100
virtually.
So about virtualization, what is
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00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:52,300
it?
The only book that you have
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00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:54,600
wrote or do you have other
Publications as well?
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00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,400
Only one that I've got out.
I might be working on another
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00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,400
one but I'm nothing to announce,
you know.
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00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,900
But yeah, I wrote The One book,
you know, when I started using
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00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:10,000
virtualization early in my, you
know, in the SMB, you know, 708,
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00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,400
you know, using it in production
environments and found that it
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00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,300
was really an effective way.
It's it was a step before cloud
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00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:18,300
and you.
Took that knowledge.
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00:19:18,300 --> 00:19:20,800
One of the things that I did a
lot, when I was in MSP, was
331
00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,300
heavily involved in community
activities and sharing my
332
00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:25,900
knowledge.
So, you know, first I did some
333
00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:28,900
classes and I taught people and
webinars and such and then I put
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00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:33,100
it all together and do it.
And, you know, now I do the
335
00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:35,900
kinds of writing I do.
You know is much more focused on
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00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:38,800
the The Daily and the land.
The long-form pieces that I'm
337
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:44,400
doing on the podcast.
Yeah, and also something I maybe
338
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,500
I should have asked you at the
beginning but with this, Fast
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00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:52,200
pace of technology is changing
from day to day.
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00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,700
Like what are the resources?
And this is maybe an advice for
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00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:58,800
people who are going to be
watching or listening to us,
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00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:04,800
like where do you think they
should be looking or putting
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00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,400
their attention to stay
up-to-date with the latest
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00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,100
technology?
Why me why I have to go.
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00:20:11,300 --> 00:20:13,900
I've got a podcast for that but,
you know, yeah.
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I sort of laugh and smile like
that.
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00:20:15,100 --> 00:20:18,500
So yeah, you can listen to my
show and business of that Tech
348
00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:21,400
is the website, there's a big
blue button to subscribe, you
349
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,200
know.
I I also think that one of the
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00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,700
things that I focus on heavily
is this telling telling my
351
00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:31,700
listeners that you need to
actually focus on two parts, you
352
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:34,000
need to focus, not just on
keeping up with the technology
353
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,900
but you need to also be keeping
up with what your customers
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pain.
Are, you know, I think a lot
355
00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:44,800
about the areas of Regulation
and legislation like is what's
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00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:45,700
coming.
And you've got, you've got to be
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00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:48,500
spending time there.
You've got to be spending times
358
00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:51,500
on business landscape and
business outcomes, understanding
359
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:54,000
the conditions on the ground so
you can be effective with it.
360
00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:57,700
You need to be actually looking
at the the kinds of Labor Trends
361
00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:00,800
and the way your employees are
working on what matters to them.
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00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:04,500
You know, the the number one
expense line item for an IT
363
00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:08,600
services or MSP is labor.
Yet, we spend so much time on
364
00:21:08,608 --> 00:21:12,100
the technology side and not
enough time on the people side,
365
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,800
you need to be good at all of
those things.
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00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,800
If you're running, this kind of
organization.
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00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,900
So, I would recommend and say,
you actually need to be doing a
368
00:21:18,908 --> 00:21:20,700
couple of different kinds of
things.
369
00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:25,700
Well, this is my Approach
honestly, because I always tell
370
00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:28,900
hello technologist.
I would say that you need to
371
00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:31,500
understand the business.
I was one of the people I'm
372
00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:34,200
talking about.
Maybe 15 is back know, like I'm
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00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,600
the technology guy.
I don't need to care about that.
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00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:40,100
But you know, of course, I
discovered later that I You
375
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:42,800
understand, because you
mentioned something like a few
376
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,500
minutes ago about how I can use
technology to generate revenue
377
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:52,700
or increase Revenue, how I can
use technology to streamline a
378
00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:56,900
business process, how I can use
technology, maybe two, maybe
379
00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:59,700
we're doing, who are doing good
job now, but maybe we can still
380
00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:03,300
optimize that or maybe we can
reduce a risk of losing money.
381
00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:06,500
So, hundred percent, I'm on the
same thing.
382
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,100
The last question for you and
it's a tradition question, I Ask
383
00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:11,900
everyone.
Like what do you advise?
384
00:22:11,900 --> 00:22:16,000
Usually, because I'm trying to
Target professionals and I'm
385
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,900
trying to Target also like
business people, technology
386
00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:22,900
people.
But I'm also trying to give back
387
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,100
and give advice for people who
are just you know starting their
388
00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:32,500
way in their professional lives.
What advise them to you, don't
389
00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:37,000
know about the IT industry in
general and specifically in the
390
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,700
sir it service industry
specifically So for me, I think
391
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:45,900
the biggest area that I would
want to know when I was starting
392
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:49,700
my career is what a big area of
opportunity.
393
00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:52,800
It is to lean into what we just
talked about there.
394
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,100
In terms of the business
outcomes versus focusing on the
395
00:22:56,108 --> 00:22:59,100
technology.
Customers do not care about how
396
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:03,100
shiny it is they care about is
how effective they are with it
397
00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:05,600
and how it makes their lives a
little bit better.
398
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,900
And so the more you lean into
that, the more successful you
399
00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:13,000
will be.
And in fact, you know, I talked
400
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,100
about that sort of tension
between, you know, the vendors
401
00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:18,600
that you're working with and the
customers that you're focused on
402
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,800
lean as much as you can towards
the customer.
403
00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:25,300
The rest will follow by doing
that.
404
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,700
It's easy to fall into the Trap
of talking about the vendors and
405
00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:32,400
the tools and all of that stuff
that is not your most effective
406
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,700
use of your time.
The most effective use of your
407
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:36,400
time is leaning into your
Customers.
408
00:23:37,300 --> 00:23:39,100
That's a great advice, I would
say.
409
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:45,900
So when listeners and the
viewers will be able to find
410
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:47,500
out.
Of course, I will share the
411
00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:52,100
links, but if you can, you know,
mention that to us today, of
412
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:53,500
course.
So I know everything I do is
413
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:56,400
available on the website.
Business of dottotech is a big
414
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,500
blue subscribe button.
If you want to give young, I'm
415
00:23:58,500 --> 00:24:01,700
available as a podcast, every
single day, the publication of
416
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:03,300
your choice, you can follow me
there.
417
00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:06,400
If you prefer video, I've got
YouTube channel youtube.com
418
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,900
slash MSP radio.
You can find me there, I do a,
419
00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:11,600
there's a daily digest
newsletter version of the show.
420
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,700
It's comes out as the a Weekly
Newsletter, however, you like to
421
00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:18,900
consume, there's a way to get my
information and again, all of
422
00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:23,000
it, at business of dot Tech,
Thank you very much.
423
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,600
David was really indeed a very
interactive and very I enjoyed
424
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,500
it honestly.
And I would be sharing all the
425
00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:33,300
links that they've just
mentioned.
426
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,500
Thank you for having, you know,
the time for us today, Dave, to
427
00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:43,400
share your valuable knowledge
with us.
428
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:49,100
I appreciate it and I it set up
for today's episode.
429
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:53,200
I hope you will enjoy.
Do it, as usual.
430
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,600
If you have any feedback, if you
have any questions, you can
431
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,400
reach out to me directly or you
can contact me over LinkedIn or
432
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,400
Twitter.
And until we meet again, in the
433
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,400
next episode.
Stay safe.
434
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:07,400
Thank you very much.
00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,300
Hello, and welcome to a new
episode of the city or show with
2
00:00:12,300 --> 00:00:14,100
Muhammad.
My name is Muhammad, I share
3
00:00:14,100 --> 00:00:17,400
daily insights about, the latest
trends in technology, while
4
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,900
discussing their business
benefits and their applications.
5
00:00:20,900 --> 00:00:25,700
I also talked about startups,
entrepreneurs, and new products
6
00:00:25,700 --> 00:00:29,400
and services.
They bring to us today, I'm very
7
00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,299
pleased to have with me.
They've Sobel, who is joining me
8
00:00:32,299 --> 00:00:39,000
from Washington DC in the United
States and Dave is a very out
9
00:00:39,100 --> 00:00:44,500
I'd say experience technology
guy, but of course, I will leave
10
00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,400
it up to him to introduce
himself.
11
00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,300
So Dave introduce yourself and
services that you offer.
12
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Oh well thanks for having me.
Some Dave, Sobel, I am a host of
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The Business of Tech podcast.
It's a daily 5 minute news
14
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analysis, show talking about
that the delivery of IT
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services.
So so I was for every dollar of
16
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Microsoft Revenue.
There's eight dollars of
17
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services Revenue associated with
their partners and Focus on the
18
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eight dollars.
I come from the space.
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I ran it to provider myself for
about a decade.
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You know, was a community guy
and I Microsoft MVP wrote a
21
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book, launch peer groups in
Europe like all that kind of
22
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stuff and then sold that
business worked for software
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vendors for about eight years.
Sold the first one to AVG.
24
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We sold the second one to
solarwinds and I then started
25
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this endeavor to change the way
we talk to the IT services and
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the kind of coverage that.
Evans.
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And here I am.
It's for three and a half years
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later.
Cool.
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Did you say like five minutes
every day?
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Is that right for the podcast?
It is it's a it's a 5.
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It's I am 45 minutes every
single day.
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Okay?
So some people told me, you are
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crazy because you decided to do
a daily podcast but I'm happy
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that I'm not the only one doing
this.
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Although like mine's not only 5
minutes sometimes longer like
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especially when I have guests
with me.
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So they've just Can you tell me,
like, what was your?
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I would say main motivation to
start the podcast.
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Well, the podcast came from from
a view of the media space that
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deals with it services.
That sort of says there's not
41
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enough industry 40 covering this
space in a way that's actionable
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for those business owners.
And I spent a decade doing that
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business and I spend another
eight years selling software to
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it.
So spent a lot of time thinking
45
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about how they work And when I
went and look at kind of the
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media, always draw the circuit
triangle and I say there's the
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technology press, right?
So the word CNET, you know, the
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kinds of they love Silicon
Valley, they love startups.
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They love Venture funds and of
IPOs that love gadgets are kind
50
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of like allergic to services.
And then you go to the business
51
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side and you've got, you know,
CNBC in the Wall Street Journal.
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Same kind of wrap, right?
They like consumer Tech.
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They like IPOs, they like the
stock market.
54
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,700
Market, they love Venture funds
that like allergic to Services
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firms.
And then, when I go to the look
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at the ones that are
specifically in this area, in
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this Niche, they're very voice
of the vendor, right, they're
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very focused on the the
technology vendors that sell to
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them, not the view of the the
provider to their customer, and
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there's kind of like if you're a
traditionalist that comes from
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the it Channel and IT services.
You understand that this
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technology Instead of these
services company, so there's two
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sides to it, there's the vendor
side, the vendor to partner side
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and then there's the partner to
customer side and they spend all
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their time on this side and not
enough some type stuff on this
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side.
The part that actually makes the
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money, but the part that's
actually the most important,
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because if you're not serving
your customers needs on your
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customers terms.
Well, then you're not relevant
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to them and I said, well, I can
complain about this problem or I
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could do Think about it.
Who honestly?
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Like this is the same out a
motive that drove me also to
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start a podcast because
especially in my region, there's
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not a lot of there's a lot of
business focused podcast or a
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lot of other Niche podcast, but
in the technology space and
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relating that to also the
business.
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So, I'm not saying I'm the first
one, but also like, this is kind
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of a dictation for customers or
for anyone who's interested in
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Tech to know.
What's going on in the market
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now?
Yep.
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I don't like MSP is something
that personally it's a business
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model that I always you know,
wanted to understand more and
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but you have something special
because you work also in the
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vendor side as I did as well.
So how did you see this
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difference from from you know
between MSP went aside and
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overall like your perspective on
the it?
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00:05:06,100 --> 00:05:08,700
Service industry overall.
Like how do you think it?
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It was how it's doing now and
when it is going in the future,
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this is so there's a lot to
unpack in that.
90
00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:21,300
So I love the core value that.
I've always loved about what I
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do.
What I've done since day, one is
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helping customers, be effective
with technology.
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I think that's that tour
statement that core value is as
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relevant today.
As it was 25 years ago.
95
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When I, when I get that bid is
is a constant but what I will
96
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also say is that it has got Both
more capable and more complex at
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the same time, you know, getting
the DeLorean, right, we go back
98
00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:56,200
to the future, we go back to,
you know the the late 90s or the
99
00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:59,900
early aughts and focus is a
technology.
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Provider was providing the
technology you went from
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customers generally not having
anything to having something or
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the very Basics, right?
Like they had to know the basics
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of hardware and software and
that was enough and today It's,
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you actually generally assume
they already have those bits.
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Like, there's not really any
customer now that doesn't have
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some technology, right?
And it's probably pretty much
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more robust than what we would
have talked about 20-25 years
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ago, but more importantly, they
are, they can do so much more
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right.
The cloud enables so much more
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or you can sign up for
cutting-edge Technologies, just
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with a credit card in a
subscription.
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But all of the needs are also
that much more complex, you
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know, the idea Of security, 20
years ago, was fighting code red
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and making sure you just weren't
out right?
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And now it's you know complex
extortion, run by criminal
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organizations that can you know
that you need insurance against
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that there's compliance.
There's a lot legal challenges.
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There's just so much more
complexity and so I say like
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it's harder to be in this space
than it's ever been before.
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That doesn't mean that it's not
a great space and then it's not
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You can make a good blueprint
gotta to build good businesses
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in this space.
It's just way harder and there's
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a lot more.
You've got to be good at a lot
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more rent.
Ask I think we need to have much
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more nuanced conversations about
that.
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Cool.
And actually I want to add to
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what you said about the risks
because I shared couple of
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times.
Whether before I start the
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podcast or after I started it,
that MSP is usually are part of
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a bigger supply chain.
So when it comes to cyber risks,
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do you see it like something on
the rise?
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In addition to the other
challenges do you think should
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be the number one priority to
focus on the cyber security
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space for msps?
So the answer to this is not not
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as simple as yes or no.
Is that the normal woman, like,
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I hate the cyber security specs.
Like, I actively loathe it.
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It's kind of gross.
Like, I don't want to spend my
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customers money on
cybersecurity.
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I could just, I just don't, it's
a bottomless pit.
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You throw money at.
And you'll never actually get to
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quote unquote secure, right?
Because every actual nuanced
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conversation with security is
about risk management.
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Management.
And I could throw infinite money
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about.
I got this and never actually
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eliminate the risk.
Well, it's kind of a horrible
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problem, like it, it's awful.
Now, I'll also then carry it to
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say I'm not crazy, right?
I'm not like the saying like
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never spend money on security,
what I'm just sort of saying is
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isn't the top thing?
No the actual top thing is
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helping customers grow their
business.
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I actually want to spend my time
on revenue-generating activities
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for Now, I'm not crazy.
And I know that I have to
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protect that revenue, and I have
to make sure that there are that
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they, that they are not in a
position where it's stolen from
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them, or it's taken from them.
And so it is an integrated part,
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but at the same time, I don't
even want to say, like it's the
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top priority, that is priority
because it's, I wish it went
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away.
I wish it wasn't actually
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something we did.
And I also, oftentimes, push
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back and I say I want want us as
technologists to Ask better
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questions about how we can make
this problem.
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Actually be harder for the
criminals.
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They shouldn't have it as easy
as they do, and we should do
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things fundamentally to the
technology to make it harder for
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them to be successful.
Well, that's a very interesting.
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I would say opinion, which it
opened the door to the other
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question that, you know, it's
bring it brought to my mind very
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quickly.
So, I agree with you.
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Like it's again, it's not about
just spending money for the
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saying of sake of spending
money, but do you think and now
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I'm not talking about msps in
Vietnam, I'm talking about us.
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People working in technology?
Do you think that we are not
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doing enough awareness?
We're not doing enough, you
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know, like education to to
customers to, you know, instead
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of just pushing them to put
money or maybe something that
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will not protect them.
Hundred percent, where do you
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say I think it's the Gap here.
Well.
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So the answer is sure.
We're not training them enough,
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right?
Like, okay, actually, trying to
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push the burden, all the way out
to the user and and I look
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again, I'm practical.
I'm in the real world that I
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would say.
Yeah, of course, you'd better be
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doing a good job training, your
users right, human engineering
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is, you know, and social
engineering, is the number one
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threat to businesses.
And you really do need to be
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doing your bit.
But why are we having smart
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conversations about the the core
Technologies themselves?
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Let me take, for example, SMTP,
right?
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We've had this mail protocol for
40-plus years.
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Yeah.
Why don't we have a version that
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has identity in it.
Like, why is, why are you even
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able to send any old random
Anonymous email that spam and
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fished that?
Why do we allow that?
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And at anybody's and I let me,
let me say every well it's, you
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know, but we'll have some TP,
it's a It's been around.
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Yeah so was St television and we
got rid of that.
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So was AM radio and we got rid
of that like with there's a long
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list of old technologies that we
replace with new technologies
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because they are better and do
the job better.
200
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But oh heaven forbid SMTP is
sacred, we can't touch it.
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What like, well maybe, maybe
there's a lot of people making
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money off of the fact that SMTP
isn't that great.
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And maybe that's why we're not
actually taking the time to fix
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00:12:02,900 --> 00:12:05,600
it.
Why don't we ask Julie asked the
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disruptive questions of this.
I'm not saying this is, this is
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00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,600
a, not a nor this is an ant, we
should, yes.
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Absolutely be training.
Our users, to make sure that
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they are not victims of social
engineering attacks, and we
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00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,100
should be creating environments
for them that are more secure,
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bye-bye, actual engineering, and
get rid of technologies that do
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not allow us to do that.
Yeah.
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That that's I have to agree with
you right, great.
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00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:44,800
Like another thing which is just
shifting away from from cyber
214
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,500
security, but overall, like how
you're saying, you know, the
215
00:12:49,300 --> 00:12:52,900
speed of Technology adoption
because, you know, when we talk
216
00:12:52,900 --> 00:12:57,900
about MSP usually, and this is
why I have like this special
217
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,600
Caleb, Atem ESPYs because
usually msps, they serve like
218
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,900
small medium businesses.
How do you see?
219
00:13:06,900 --> 00:13:11,600
This is like important when you
know past technology adoption
220
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,100
for these businesses that might
not be, you know, be able to get
221
00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:18,200
these big tags and you know, all
these things.
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So, so what's your take on this?
Well, so an 87% of all IT
223
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,700
services companies in msps or
like less than ten million
224
00:13:26,700 --> 00:13:27,800
dollars in Revenue.
Right.
225
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,500
And if I do, I'm looking at
that, you know, in That's a very
226
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,500
u.s. slanted set of data.
But, you know, it's a great
227
00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:37,400
great Market to look at.
And I'm a big fan of, like most
228
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businesses or small businesses
there really are like they're,
229
00:13:40,100 --> 00:13:42,000
they're really, you know, we
like to talk about the big
230
00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,700
businesses because they're
interesting and they're in
231
00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:47,300
easier, Story cover, but most
businesses are actually small.
232
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I pushed back a little bit on
the idea that the technology
233
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isn't available.
One of the great things about
234
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,600
both the internet and the cloud
is that it makes Cutting Edge
235
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:59,000
technology available to anyone.
You can go get the coolest
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00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,500
grapes off.
I've just by signing up for a
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SAS application.
Like it's really not all that
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hard anymore.
It's, you know, customize and
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available for your own size and
speed anybody can get
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Salesforce, for example, like
it's available for anybody.
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So I'm not entirely convinced
that that's the.
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The difference what I will say
is, is that going a whole lot
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faster?
We're all talking, it's a great
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time to be talking about it aii,
right?
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And chat.
GPT is taken the world.
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Let's know that it's adoption
to.
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Users what, you know, in a
couple of weeks was the fastest
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technology consumer technology
adoption in history, you know,
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beats beats everything else
that's shows how incredibly
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available these Technologies are
and now we've got statistics
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where more than one in four
users are actually using it now
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in their day-to-day job already.
You know, it's it's it's crazy
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fast.
I mean, it's I've been saying AI
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is shut what we used to call
Shadow it on speed, you know,
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where it's got the injection of
that that great drug and it's
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just going so fast like it's
it's and now you more than ever.
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You need technology advisors
working with business people to
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make sure that they are make
right choices on how they use
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it.
You know, again, chat upc's are
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great.
Example, one of the things that
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we're learning right now is is
true, but people need to
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understand how to use it because
did, you know, it's learning,
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right?
Like it's taking those inputs
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and if you give it confidential
information, it's going to pop.
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But actually put that in the
training model.
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Perhaps you don't you the user
don't want to do that and we
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need we need help users be more
effective and learn how to use
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these Technologies in ways that
help them.
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Not hurt them.
Yeah, actually I saw an optical
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I think two days back A lot of
people they don't know and they
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are using it in the their
working space, right?
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So they are just, for example,
you can you advise me how to I
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do this?
And then they putting their
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company's data over there and
yeah but it's going back to the
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model so it's quite scary.
Just also I'm wondering about
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something and especially because
from from that perspective and
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how this is changing back there
in the u.s. so did you see like
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some more adoption for getting a
help from an MSP during you
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know, this remote or phase?
And now people are talking about
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back to office.
So how how does the market at
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least from from that side of the
world is moving now?
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Today's yeah, yeah, you will
only look at that.
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What happened?
You know, as the pandemic head
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and I was like, down here it's,
you know, technology moves
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really fast to help businesses,
be effective.
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And a lot of businesses were
made remote very easily and they
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did it by the head with the help
of IT services companies and Ms.
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Patients.
Now, that Genies out of the
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bottle and we're finding that a
lot of businesses are now
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re-examining to understand how
do we Effective with this, you
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know there everyone wants a
binary answer, right?
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Everyone wants the well, it's
going to be remote, it's gonna
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be from work back in the office.
It's like everyone wants an easy
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binary answer and the real
answer is a lot messier than
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that.
It's actually going to be the
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yucky middle of humans in the
middle figuring out the right
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way to do it.
You know, I've been I live here
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just outside Washington DC and
I'm watching the federal
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00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:46,200
government figure.
This set of moves out where they
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00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,900
figure out You know how much of
their people are going to be in,
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how much is your knee out and
you want it to be like easy like
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other in the office.
Now what's actually happening is
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00:17:54,300 --> 00:17:57,500
teams or figuring out the ways
to be effective, what makes
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sense.
For individual teams for
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individual people, forward
individual organizations, and
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00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:04,400
they're coming up with a messy
middle, you know, some in the
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office some and somehow what's
most effective for the task?
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00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:10,900
And what I want people to be
looking at is the core principle
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00:18:10,900 --> 00:18:13,400
again.
Like I said, earlier, you want
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00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:18,400
to help businesses be effective
with technology that Finding the
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00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,600
best way.
And in this case, it's gonna be
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kind of messy.
It's going to be about using the
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00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,700
technology effective, not three
days in two days out.
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00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:29,900
That's arbitrary.
That doesn't make.
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00:18:29,900 --> 00:18:31,900
That isn't it?
I, that isn't an answer.
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00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,400
That's just trying to overcome
by it.
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00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:40,100
Yeah, that's that's pretty much
logical when I was, you know,
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00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:43,200
like you're checking your
profile.
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00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,500
I think about that.
You have wrote a book actually
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00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:51,100
virtually.
So about virtualization, what is
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00:18:51,100 --> 00:18:52,300
it?
The only book that you have
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00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:54,600
wrote or do you have other
Publications as well?
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00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,400
Only one that I've got out.
I might be working on another
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00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,400
one but I'm nothing to announce,
you know.
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00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,900
But yeah, I wrote The One book,
you know, when I started using
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00:19:04,900 --> 00:19:10,000
virtualization early in my, you
know, in the SMB, you know, 708,
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00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,400
you know, using it in production
environments and found that it
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00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,300
was really an effective way.
It's it was a step before cloud
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00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:18,300
and you.
Took that knowledge.
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00:19:18,300 --> 00:19:20,800
One of the things that I did a
lot, when I was in MSP, was
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00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,300
heavily involved in community
activities and sharing my
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00:19:23,300 --> 00:19:25,900
knowledge.
So, you know, first I did some
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00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:28,900
classes and I taught people and
webinars and such and then I put
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00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:33,100
it all together and do it.
And, you know, now I do the
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00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:35,900
kinds of writing I do.
You know is much more focused on
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00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:38,800
the The Daily and the land.
The long-form pieces that I'm
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00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:44,400
doing on the podcast.
Yeah, and also something I maybe
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00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,500
I should have asked you at the
beginning but with this, Fast
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00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:52,200
pace of technology is changing
from day to day.
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00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,700
Like what are the resources?
And this is maybe an advice for
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00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:58,800
people who are going to be
watching or listening to us,
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00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:04,800
like where do you think they
should be looking or putting
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00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,400
their attention to stay
up-to-date with the latest
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00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,100
technology?
Why me why I have to go.
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00:20:11,300 --> 00:20:13,900
I've got a podcast for that but,
you know, yeah.
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00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:15,100
I sort of laugh and smile like
that.
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00:20:15,100 --> 00:20:18,500
So yeah, you can listen to my
show and business of that Tech
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00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:21,400
is the website, there's a big
blue button to subscribe, you
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00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,200
know.
I I also think that one of the
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00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,700
things that I focus on heavily
is this telling telling my
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00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:31,700
listeners that you need to
actually focus on two parts, you
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00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:34,000
need to focus, not just on
keeping up with the technology
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but you need to also be keeping
up with what your customers
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pain.
Are, you know, I think a lot
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00:20:41,700 --> 00:20:44,800
about the areas of Regulation
and legislation like is what's
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00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:45,700
coming.
And you've got, you've got to be
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00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:48,500
spending time there.
You've got to be spending times
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00:20:48,500 --> 00:20:51,500
on business landscape and
business outcomes, understanding
359
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:54,000
the conditions on the ground so
you can be effective with it.
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00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:57,700
You need to be actually looking
at the the kinds of Labor Trends
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00:20:57,700 --> 00:21:00,800
and the way your employees are
working on what matters to them.
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00:21:01,100 --> 00:21:04,500
You know, the the number one
expense line item for an IT
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00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:08,600
services or MSP is labor.
Yet, we spend so much time on
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00:21:08,608 --> 00:21:12,100
the technology side and not
enough time on the people side,
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00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,800
you need to be good at all of
those things.
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00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,800
If you're running, this kind of
organization.
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00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:18,900
So, I would recommend and say,
you actually need to be doing a
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00:21:18,908 --> 00:21:20,700
couple of different kinds of
things.
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00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:25,700
Well, this is my Approach
honestly, because I always tell
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00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:28,900
hello technologist.
I would say that you need to
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00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:31,500
understand the business.
I was one of the people I'm
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00:21:31,500 --> 00:21:34,200
talking about.
Maybe 15 is back know, like I'm
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00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:36,600
the technology guy.
I don't need to care about that.
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00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:40,100
But you know, of course, I
discovered later that I You
375
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:42,800
understand, because you
mentioned something like a few
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00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,500
minutes ago about how I can use
technology to generate revenue
377
00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:52,700
or increase Revenue, how I can
use technology to streamline a
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00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:56,900
business process, how I can use
technology, maybe two, maybe
379
00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:59,700
we're doing, who are doing good
job now, but maybe we can still
380
00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:03,300
optimize that or maybe we can
reduce a risk of losing money.
381
00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:06,500
So, hundred percent, I'm on the
same thing.
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00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,100
The last question for you and
it's a tradition question, I Ask
383
00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:11,900
everyone.
Like what do you advise?
384
00:22:11,900 --> 00:22:16,000
Usually, because I'm trying to
Target professionals and I'm
385
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,900
trying to Target also like
business people, technology
386
00:22:19,900 --> 00:22:22,900
people.
But I'm also trying to give back
387
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:27,100
and give advice for people who
are just you know starting their
388
00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:32,500
way in their professional lives.
What advise them to you, don't
389
00:22:32,500 --> 00:22:37,000
know about the IT industry in
general and specifically in the
390
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,700
sir it service industry
specifically So for me, I think
391
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:45,900
the biggest area that I would
want to know when I was starting
392
00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:49,700
my career is what a big area of
opportunity.
393
00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:52,800
It is to lean into what we just
talked about there.
394
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,100
In terms of the business
outcomes versus focusing on the
395
00:22:56,108 --> 00:22:59,100
technology.
Customers do not care about how
396
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:03,100
shiny it is they care about is
how effective they are with it
397
00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:05,600
and how it makes their lives a
little bit better.
398
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,900
And so the more you lean into
that, the more successful you
399
00:23:10,900 --> 00:23:13,000
will be.
And in fact, you know, I talked
400
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,100
about that sort of tension
between, you know, the vendors
401
00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:18,600
that you're working with and the
customers that you're focused on
402
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,800
lean as much as you can towards
the customer.
403
00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:25,300
The rest will follow by doing
that.
404
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,700
It's easy to fall into the Trap
of talking about the vendors and
405
00:23:28,700 --> 00:23:32,400
the tools and all of that stuff
that is not your most effective
406
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,700
use of your time.
The most effective use of your
407
00:23:34,700 --> 00:23:36,400
time is leaning into your
Customers.
408
00:23:37,300 --> 00:23:39,100
That's a great advice, I would
say.
409
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:45,900
So when listeners and the
viewers will be able to find
410
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:47,500
out.
Of course, I will share the
411
00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:52,100
links, but if you can, you know,
mention that to us today, of
412
00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:53,500
course.
So I know everything I do is
413
00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:56,400
available on the website.
Business of dottotech is a big
414
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,500
blue subscribe button.
If you want to give young, I'm
415
00:23:58,500 --> 00:24:01,700
available as a podcast, every
single day, the publication of
416
00:24:01,700 --> 00:24:03,300
your choice, you can follow me
there.
417
00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:06,400
If you prefer video, I've got
YouTube channel youtube.com
418
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,900
slash MSP radio.
You can find me there, I do a,
419
00:24:09,100 --> 00:24:11,600
there's a daily digest
newsletter version of the show.
420
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,700
It's comes out as the a Weekly
Newsletter, however, you like to
421
00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:18,900
consume, there's a way to get my
information and again, all of
422
00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:23,000
it, at business of dot Tech,
Thank you very much.
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00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,600
David was really indeed a very
interactive and very I enjoyed
424
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,500
it honestly.
And I would be sharing all the
425
00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:33,300
links that they've just
mentioned.
426
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:39,500
Thank you for having, you know,
the time for us today, Dave, to
427
00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:43,400
share your valuable knowledge
with us.
428
00:24:44,300 --> 00:24:49,100
I appreciate it and I it set up
for today's episode.
429
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:53,200
I hope you will enjoy.
Do it, as usual.
430
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,600
If you have any feedback, if you
have any questions, you can
431
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,400
reach out to me directly or you
can contact me over LinkedIn or
432
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,400
Twitter.
And until we meet again, in the
433
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,400
next episode.
Stay safe.
434
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:07,400
Thank you very much.
