#324 Can a Contact Lens Be Your Next Computer with Roman Axelrod

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Mehmet: Hello and welcome back to a new episode of the CTO Show with Mehmet. Today, I'm very pleased joining me, Roman Axelrod. Roman is the CEO and founder of XPANCEO. Roman, the way I love to do it is I keep it to my guests to tell us a little bit about themselves, their journey, and what they are [00:01:00] up to. So the floor is yours.

Roman: Well, thank you, Mehmet. Very nice to meet you. Thanks for having me. Hey, everyone. My name is Raman. Uh, I'm 33 years old. And, uh, for the last 30 years, I've been building and selling technology companies. And, um, for the last probably five years, I've been living with the feeling that all these gadgets, uh, these computers are outdated, are obsolete, and that humanity needs In you, uh, a next generation of computing, a new type of gadget to merge all of them.

Roman: Just imagine, I personally, I need four computers just, just to survive my, my typical day. Laptop, tablet. [00:02:00] Uh, probably smartwatch, uh, gaming console, sometimes two gaming consoles, just to bear my functionality. Uh, and they're all not interchangeable. The screens are not reshapable. Uh, they're bulky. They're heavy, they, uh, enslave us, they enslave us with their batteries.

Roman: Basically, uh, I, I'm more concerned, uh, if I have, uh, enough phone battery that I'm concerned about, have I eaten anything today? Because, well, you know, that, uh, you know, that feeling when you're off the grid and you understand that you have multiple questions and zooms and et cetera, et cetera, to attend to.

Roman: So I wanted to merge, uh, and [00:03:00] let's not forget that, um, the thing is that humanity has set itself a few targets for at least 100 years. And these targets are, um, well, you, you cannot perform these targets with current generation of computing. We will not become interplanetary species, uh, with these computers.

Roman: We will not, um, uh, we will not be able to radically improve quality of life. Uh, we basically we're stuck. Um, and. Everyone understands that the next generation of computing is spatial computing, as, uh, as, for example, Apple, uh, calls it. Uh, thing is, think of it, uh, about, think about it as a computer of Tony Stark.

Roman: Bang, uh, the three dimensional computer appears around you. You [00:04:00] operate it by eyes, by voice, by gestures. Probably a little bit later by mine, uh, but that's going to happen later. Uh, and the only thing that prevents us from using this computer is basically bad gadgets. They're all bulky, not interchangeable, they're dirty, they, uh, they, they just, they're just bad.

Roman: Um, I can't imagine myself walking around the streets wearing Oculus 3. No, no, no, well, no offense, Oculus. The gadget itself is great, but not for this type of use. So, we decided to concentrate on, uh, creation of such a gadget that would Provide humanity with, um, with, uh, with the ability to merge all those gadgets into one, [00:05:00] uh, we decided to try to create, uh, a contact lens.

Roman: Uh, just a normal looking soft contact lens that, uh, around 300 million people use every day on the planet earth, but able to provide for, um, XR experience. You provide with image to measure biological parameters and to provide you with the so called night vision. We have been incredibly lucky to gather some of the brightest minds of physics under one roof.

Roman: So far we have been awarded as top five optics labs in the world. Top 10 research institutions in the UAE, among all types of research institutions, not only [00:06:00] physics, not only optics, but all of them. Um, by now we have a few stable prototypes. Uh, so basically. In case you're, you're around internet city in Dubai, please do feel free to knock my door and I will be more than happy to show you prototypes and to tell you more about it.

Roman: And we have around 30 patrons spending. Uh, we hope to approach human trials. So the, uh, the, the, the, the, the king of question is when we, we will be able to use such a gadget while we intend to approach human trials in 2026, then it depends how much time will take human trials. If it's, it was usually a few years, but well, we hope to cope with [00:07:00] that within one or two years.

Roman: And I would say that. In 20 27, 20 28, probably 2029, you'll be able to buy this gadget and to use it on a daily basis. I think that'd be it. 

Mehmet: Yeah. So, Norman, just out of curiosity, what you're doing is, you know, the use case is such a fantastic use case. You know, you, you, um, you summarize, I mean, the, the problem, which is usually why, uh, founders like yourself, they come up with a solution because.

Mehmet: Everyone agrees that computing cannot continue in the way that we've been doing it. But tell me one thing and just just out of curiosity. So it's a contact lens, right? So it's like similar to the ones so if I don't want to wear my glasses, I will just get a lens and I will I will stick it. Do you think that this is something that can go?

Mehmet: I [00:08:00] mean, let's say if someone who has like, maybe some, like myself, fear from contact lenses, how, how you'd convince me to, to wear these? Because see, I still wear glasses. People tell me, yeah, like you can do the, but just as I'm trying to understand. Like how far this can go? 

Roman: Well, you see, uh, we have, we have, uh, spent a lot of time, resources and energy on, uh, on basically interviewing people of their ability to wear these lenses and Well, preferred use cases.

Roman: So we have spent a lot of, a lot of time and effort on customer development. And so far we know that, uh, when you have a poor eyesight, you have a few options. To do the surgery, to [00:09:00] wear glasses, to wear lenses. Or just do nothing and suffer. Um, people who wear glasses are usually comfortable, uh, with the glasses, people who do not want to wear glasses, wear contact lenses.

Roman: And the main scenario, the main, so to say the main thing behind wearing contact lenses. Is that the one who wears them doesn't want to wear the losses. Um, there are about 300 million people where, uh, contact lenses on a daily basis, and we primarily aim on them, of course. So basically we, first of all, we will provide this with this gadgets, with this gadget.

Roman: We will provide, uh, uh, those people who do not need to be convinced. [00:10:00] And then when these, once they see the, the awesomeness of this gadget, they will convince yourself, they will convince you and other, other people who are, who are reluctant about that. 

Mehmet: Yeah, no, absolutely. You know, uh, But 

Roman: you're, you're absolutely right.

Roman: The first generation of gadget is very narrow. Very narrow. Comparing to, I don't know, comparing to iPhone, comparing to, uh, wireless, uh, comparing to earbuds. It's very narrow. Yes, absolutely. Of course. We do understand that. 

Mehmet: Yeah, but the use cases, you know, and I was checking also the website, Roman, before, uh, we get onto the, the, the, the show here to record.

Mehmet: You know, I, I was mind blown because the use cases and I think, you know, in the prototype, you know, like you, you were able to achieve something that really it will be [00:11:00] beneficial. And, you know, when I thought about the use cases, it's not only just for computing purposes, it's not like, you know, I can, yeah, I can put a screen in front of me and read.

Mehmet: But it goes beyond that. So now with the prototype and capabilities, if you can like focus on the main thing, for example, tell me more about, you know, the night vision, tell me about the health monitoring. So what, what you can, you know, like, uh, shed some light on, on the different use cases also as well that we will be able to have, uh, with the small cancers.

Roman: Well, uh, my love song, of course, is to operate the world via the advance. So basically, you will be able to, uh, to open your car, to turn on your car, to open your, I don't know, your safe, your doors, your computer, your bank accounts, your everything, you will be able to operate your life, basically, with just a glance, and, uh, [00:12:00] at the same time, be absolutely completely completely Call about your personal data and that, um, and, uh, the, uh, the ability of someone to steal your, your, your identity or your data or your, uh, passwords or your something because it will not only when you use your, uh, your eye as a mean of, um, As, um, as, as a tool to, to, uh, to perform such a, any type of action, like probably when you use your eye to, uh, to perform a money transaction, uh, you only use your retina.

Roman: When you use your eye with a contact lens, you will use three, uh, layers of, uh, security and your, uh, eye is one, only one of them. Other two are incorporated in the lens. So, um, That's my love song, of [00:13:00] course. I, I, personally, I really do wait for this, uh, for this, for this, for this functionality because I hate, uh, I hate, uh, uh, taking with me, like, a bunch of keys, plastic cards, phone, etc, etc, etc.

Roman: I would rather use one gadget to, to, to, to, uh, as an ultimate, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Mean of access to my life, access and operation, I would say, but, uh, of course, then it comes to health monitoring, health monitoring, uh, works basically, well, basically it's very, it's not very simple. It's a, it's, um, um, thing is that we.

Roman: As a company, we develop, um, not only, uh, we develop all kinds of electronics that will be embedded to a contact lens. And, uh, the problem [00:14:00] behind this, this whole concept is to make this electronics, these Gadgets, this, uh, components, these sensors, so small, transparent and biocompatible that they will be able to, to, to be put on the contact lens.

Roman: Uh, we are, well, basically the whole, the whole company was gathered around the, uh, best minds in modern optoelectronics, uh, developing new materials, uh, that are more. Well, thousand times more thin than the current ones, uh, big techs use in creating their, their gadgets. So basically, we spent a lot of time on creating new materials, very thin, very light, [00:15:00] very transparent, and very biocompatible.

Roman: Then we produce, uh, gadgets. Uh, components, sensors outta those materials, and then we, we put them onto a normal looking soft contact lens. Uh, we aim at, uh, five parameters, heart rate, IOP, intraocular pressure, of course, glucose, uh, um. Blood pressure and, uh, um, and, uh,

Roman: sorry, I, uh, I forgot the proper, the proper word in English. That's fine. Uh, but you, you're very much welcome to, to, to check it on our, our website. The idea behind that is to provide you with, uh, with a very [00:16:00] narrow, very UpToDate advice. Uh, not the, not that type of advice, like not, not that Apple watch type of advice.

Roman: Apple watch just informs you about the fact that your blood pressure is high. We want to provide you with the advice. Like, uh, the lens sees another cup of coffee and tells you it's enough of coffee, your blood pressure is too high. Or, uh, the lens sees me and says you. Stop talking to Roman, he irritates you.

Roman: Uh, cut, cut, uh, cut, uh, the time you spent with Roman. Uh, he clearly, we, I, I, as a gadget, I see by judging by your parameters that you feel bad near this person. Uh, so, we wanted to To, to make it more narrow, I would say. 

Mehmet: Perfect. Just again, like out of curiosity, and I didn't prepare these questions, but because, you know, I'm now trying [00:17:00] to visualize, you know, the whole thing working together, do I need to be always connected?

Mehmet: To the internet to make this working or it can be active by its own 

Roman: No, absolutely. You don't have to be connected to the internet. See I have to Explain one thing We do not create we do not try to put the whole computing system on onto your own We only Um, we only put their, uh, components, um, responsible for image sensing and night vision.

Roman: Uh, the computing power will be stored somewhere else. We, uh, We call, we call it a companion device. It's, uh, it's, uh, it's [00:18:00] a, it's a device, uh, probably this size, uh, that will contain a, uh, sim card. To use internet, a computing power to basically, to, to work with all the data you have gathered with the lens.

Roman: And that will connect with the, with the lens wirelessly. And at the same time, it will provide energy for the lens. Uh, so basically you will be able to wear them like a. Normal contact lenses, the whole, the whole, the whole concept behind product management of the company is to make it as comfortable and reliable as just a basic contact lens.

Mehmet: Got it. Roman also like out of curiosity and you know, uh, I, I grew up in, uh, Uh, in an environment where I was seeing, you know, the chips here after year, getting [00:19:00] smaller and smaller and smaller . Right. And few days back, we, last week we saw like Nvidia and, you know, the, the chip that has 200 billion transistors in just, you know, like, uh, like maybe smaller than my, my palm.

Mehmet: But how, how do you, in, do you think the manufacturing, uh, of, of, uh, the lance would be. Uh, hard, like, do you do, will you need a sophisticated, uh, manufacturing plant to, to get, you know, these small, uh, size, I would say, as you mentioned, like it's, it's atomic size, I would say, because you're trying to put all this.

Mehmet: Yeah. So, so can you tell me a little bit more about how to envision that? 

Roman: Yeah, that is, that is actually very interesting, very interesting. You see, uh, today we'll leave in a Silicon era, all our gadgets are produced. Uh, well, the key, the main, uh, the main material behind all kinds of gadgets we [00:20:00] use is Silicon.

Roman: And, uh, why don't we have, um, Those,

Roman: uh, beautiful looking AR glasses, because silicon and, uh, lithium, uh, battery, batteries are just too big, uh, so basically you need a lot of space. To put components made of silicon. That is why all the gadgets, all uh, the, um, all the um, uh, xr Mr. Gadgets are so bulky, so huge. Like, like, like Vision Pro or, uh, Oculus or even X.

Roman: Real and real. They're all relatively big. The idea is to you is not to use the silicon era technology at all. Probably you heard [00:21:00] that, oh my God, about 12, 13 years ago, to, um, the Russian physicists, uh, game, um, they received the Nobel prize for discovering, um, new, new qualities of, uh, two dimensional materials.

Roman: You probably know the hype word graphene. Um, so, uh, our company has emerged from the lab that was that concentrated on two dimensional materials, atomic thin materials, like, I'm not joking. Basically, those materials are one. Uh, the, um, so my co founder, uh, who appears to my co founder, co founder, Valentin Volkov, who appears to be one of the world's most well known scientists in, [00:22:00] uh, modern optoelectronic sensitive materials field.

Roman: Um, he spent like 25 years developing them. And the whole, the whole idea of the company, the whole, the, the, the, the lab behind the company specializes in creation of those materials. And as you may imagine, there are no means in the world to produce gadgets out of those materials. So basically when you need to produce a new type of, I don't know, smartphone foldable, this smart, I don't know, you want to produce a foldable smartphone that will fold in four dimensions or six dimensions.

Roman: You just call TSMC and say, TSMC, Hey, I, I need this. This kind of, uh, wafers, I need this kind of chips, I need this kind of everything. Uh, you don't have such an option, uh, when we, uh, when we speak about, uh, when we [00:23:00] speak about, uh, XR gadgets. So, basically, even with those gadgets, like, Uh, vision pro that are silicon based still have to say, I am from, from, from, from the engineering standpoint, I absolutely admire what they did this, this, this gadget is a love song and I really do wait for next generations and I expect them to become even more cool from, from the engineering side of you, but.

Roman: Even they were forced to reinvent the whole production process. Uh, we do not use silicon based tech. So, it's absolutely up to us how to produce and how to scale production of this gadget. So far, we think about very sophisticated 3D printing. [00:24:00] Um, in our lab, um, We have a lot of, um, I would describe it as a, some sort of, um, of a con conjunction of, of, of a mic microscope, 3D printer and a robot.

Roman: That is able to 3D print those teeny weeny components and at the same time using robotic arms to put them onto the lens. That's, uh, that's the current state of affairs, but we really, we absolutely understand that, uh, in a few years we will need The whole concept of, of production, of gadgets. 

Mehmet: Absolutely.

Mehmet: Uh, before I shift to gears, you know, and talk a little bit about the, the, the, the business side, but again, Mm-Hmm. technology [00:25:00] perspective, uh, of course, like AI is, you know, everywhere and everyone is talking about ai. So how are you planning to leverage the AI. Integration with the with the lenses, Roman. 

Roman: Ah, very simple question.

Roman: Ah, I do believe that AI is the next generation of computing and the lens is the interface for this, uh, for this, uh, generation. So judging by the, I, I, I envisioned AI and, uh, generative AI, especially as, as a miracle, this is an absolute miracle. And the last time I had this feeling of magic is when I sold the first iPhone and, uh, and, uh, 2006, uh, We create, I want you to think about the computing of the [00:26:00] future as a, as an ecosystem of software and apps you use every day, uh, while having multiple interfaces to use this.

Roman: Same ecosystem and apps. Uh, when you're at home, anything can be your screen. All your walls, all your surfaces, all your, even yourself, you can be a screen. When you're at home, when you're not concerned about privacy, when you're alone, or there are only, uh, closest ones and loved ones around you and you're not, you're not feeling, uh, well, you know.

Roman: Uh, you, you know, you, you don't, you don't have a necessity to, to, to preserve your, your, um, your, your information when you're outside, when you're at work, you can use your glasses when you're on, on, when you're jogging or when you're [00:27:00] driving a motorbike or a helicopter or in space, you can use your contact lens.

Roman: You will have, you will have multiple ways to consume, uh, this, um, this ecosystem of software and apps. You will have multiple interfaces, and I believe that AI assistant will be a key point of contact and center of this, uh, new ecosystem. At least I, I would very much love to have such a system, and you can, well, humanity has imagined such a thing for decades just to look at.

Roman: Uh, the evolution of, um, of, uh, of Jarvis and, uh, Iron Man movies. It starts with just a voice in Tony Stark's head, in the helmet, and then it, uh, it becomes a, uh, Human like being and, um,[00:28:00] 

Roman: well, it, well, it takes us to a rather scary, scary, scary, uh, Elon Musk ish thing about, uh, about, uh, the, uh, the ability of the general AI to, to, to, to put itself instead of humans, but still, uh, Humanity has imagined this, this type of computing system for decades, and I think it's time for it. 

Mehmet: Yeah, to your point, and I think I mentioned, uh, previously, you know, When we were kids, you know, I'm in the, from the generation that, uh, when in the cartoons where they used to show us like people doing video conferencing, we're like laughing at them, like, see, these guys, they are crazy.

Mehmet: Or when, you know, the, the, they, they call some, some hero using the watch and then they, Again, to your point. So, of course, like what's everything started an imagination and then it, it, uh, it is proven that it can happen and [00:29:00] all what is, you know, 

Roman: what, uh, 10 years ago, 10 years ago, uh, in 2014, 15 and 16, I worked in a company that, uh, developed, uh, AI algorithms, computer vision algorithms for self driving.

Roman: And I was responsible for commercial side. So basically I was responsible for selling those algorithms to our makers. Um, as I approached them, as I approached the conferences, um, As I, uh, spoke to them, remember, 2014, 2015, that was considered as a real defect. Neural networks, are you guys biologists or what?

Roman: Uh, it was only 10 years ago. Now, today, in 2024, Everyone knows what a neural network is. Everyone knows what machine learning is. [00:30:00] And, well, basically, almost any type of business, especially B2C business, use those technologies. So it took only 10 years for them to become what Fully acceptable within the society.

Mehmet: Absolutely. Now, uh, Roman, you are into, you just mentioned you are into the deep tech, right? And you choose to have Dubai as your headquarter. And this is something I kept nagging if, if I might say why we don't have too much deep tech here. So of course we have plenty of successful B2C businesses, whether they are into the food delivery apps.

Mehmet: ride hailing, we start to see some B2B fintech, HR tech, deep tech, but you choose Dubai to be your [00:31:00] headquarter. What drove this decision to choose Dubai? And very easy. Yeah. 

Roman: Uh, well, uh, thing is that myself, I'm Russian, um, my partner, my co founder, uh, the CTO of the company is Ukrainian. Yes, it happens. And, uh, we have started the company before the Ukrainian outbreak.

Roman: And the whole company was located in, uh, in, uh, uh, Denmark, Moscow, and partly Eastern Europe, Kiev, and so on. Uh, and the whole company, the, the first generation of employees, they're all Either Ukrainians or Russians and girlfriends, and we do not want to be involved in this kind of situation. We just don't want to have anything in common with this work.

Roman: So we, we [00:32:00] say make plans, not work. Uh, so when, uh, the Ukrainian outbreak started, we decided to relocate the whole country, uh, not to wait until something even worse happens. And of course, um, we want that to be in a place very safe and very open minded. And of course, uh, if I were asked 10 years ago, where should such a company be located?

Roman: I would definitely answer Switzerland, uh, Switzerland or Germany or USA. Um, but today. I see first of all that, well, everyday Life Day-to-Day Life in Dubai is much more comfortable than in [00:33:00] those states. Uh, the culture, the her, the heritage. The, um, the way the country is operated, the, uh, the safety, the cleanliness, the, the way, uh, the way the, the way the rulers of the country see its future, it, it resonates with us hugely.

Roman: And I see on a personal notice, I see many, many, many, many people from, from the UK, from, um, from Switzerland, from, Uh, from the U. S. But, well, of course, from the U. K. Especially, uh, wishing to immigrate to the Middle East, wishing to immigrate to to either Dubai or Abu Dhabi or Saudi or Bahrain, because [00:34:00] everyone understands that the next chapter of the The, the humanities development will not happen in Europe and in the U.

Roman: S. With all due respect, uh, those, those countries, uh, they, they, they, they, they, they have, they had their time. They, they have their centuries, but I think that in the coming, in the coming decades and even decades. Centuries, the, the new world, the Asia Pacific, the, uh, the South America, MENA region is going to, is going to, not to say prevail, but at least play a very significant role.

Mehmet: Mm hmm. Now, uh, Again, because you're still in, in, in, in a, uh, prototype, uh, phase, I would say. So how, how [00:35:00] important and how easy was also being here in Dubai, uh, to seek for funding or established partnerships? Like, because you know, a lot of people ask me, especially people who are in the U S. And in Europe, like guys, how's, how's the, I mean, the funding they're going, like, uh, is it like the U S you go?

Mehmet: I mean, in, in Silicon Valley, you, we hear about these stories. Someone goes, they take a check and so on. I know that it's still developing, but also I want your opinion, Roman, and this is maybe to inspire more people to come here and, you know, they start their deep tech, as I said, 

Roman: well, uh, the key thing is that, uh, the only.

Roman: about the only thing about us and California is money. Uh, the ecosystem is bad, is outdated, the infrastructure is bad. The, [00:36:00] um, the day to day life is well, let's say complicated, uh, with all those, uh, Problems with crime and, um, and et cetera, et cetera. And on a personal basis, I have, I have a wife, I have a three year old son.

Roman: And, uh, when I'm in Dubai, uh, I am absolutely calm when my wife takes my son to, to kindergarten. And I wouldn't, I wouldn't, and to be frank, I wouldn't let her do the same thing in San Francisco, I would definitely escort them myself to the kindergarten. Um, so the main thing is, uh, money and the ability to raise, um, in case you want to do business within the U S in case you want to create a product.

Roman: For the U. S. market, be it [00:37:00] B2C or B2B or whatever, you definitely need to be there because no investment fund, no, uh, reputable investment authority will invest into your company, uh, in case you do not have presence in the U. S. Uh, it always starts with, uh, you guys have presence in the U. S. Where, where, where's the, where's the lab?

Roman: Where are the scientists? Where, where, where, where are IPs located? So if you want to, uh, to create something for the U. S. market or for U. S. corps, corporations, or big techs, well, you have to be there in case you don't want to be there. Uh, for example, we have raised a substantial amount of money. Our seed round was 40 million U.

Roman: S. dollars from, uh, from a very well established and reputable Hong Kong based, uh, investment fund. [00:38:00] In case you do not want to create, and we, we, from the very beginning, we were about developing a new technology. We didn't want it to be specific for U. S. market, I don't know, Germany market, or something like that.

Roman: And, um, We, we, we, we just sort of took a long term approach for this question. Uh, we understand that in case we succeed as a company developing a product, uh, we will probably, um, become the next Apple or sort of that in case we don't succeed. It doesn't matter where we were, uh, and, uh, by now we see that it is absolutely great to raise money [00:39:00] being in Dubai to raise money from, uh, Asian investors from local mark, from the local market, uh, from, uh, from European, uh, investment funds, especially from the, uh, UK based investment funds, uh, that works and we see huge amount of money flowing into the region, except from the US.

Roman: So you have this sort of a crossroad in case you want to create something for the US market. Um, you have no options but to be there. Uh, in case you want to create something for humanity, for the rest of the world, for et cetera, et cetera, you have a few, for deep tech companies, I would say, you have a few places in the world.

Roman: Switzerland, Germany, UK, Dubai, Singapore. That's what I see from my [00:40:00] perspective. Uh, we chose Dubai because, uh, transport, uh, because, because of the safety, because of the local market, because of, uh, the, um, because of the way rulers of the country see the future, uh, and the amount of time and money and effort they actually spent to work for the future.

Roman: Uh, well, we thought about, and let's not forget that, um, Being in Dubai, you're able to buy any type of equipment and to relocate any kind of, uh, any kind of workforce within five to 10 hours. So you only need five to 10 hours to reach New York, eight hours to London, eight hours to Singapore, perfect place from, from the logistics standpoint.

Roman: And we, we have already spent 6 million. [00:41:00] On the on the lab equipment only that is huge for us. Uh, well, this is very important to be. And of course, the majority of the equipment is produced either in US, Germany, Japan, South Korea. So we're in a sweet spot between them. Perfect. Absolutely. 

Mehmet: Absolutely, Roman.

Mehmet: And, you know, like, uh, People ask me sometime, like, how is it like in there and just to your point, one thing I want to add from my perspective is actually, yeah, US money doesn't come here because if you are not there, but the opposite is right. We started to see actually the local funds here, family offices, sovereign, uh, Um, investment authorities actually investing in us and trying actually to help them to get the market here.

Mehmet: The other day I was, 

Roman: I adore it. I adore it to be, to be, to be, to be frank. I, [00:42:00] I, I adore the level of local ambition. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. Uh, 

Roman: uh, I adore it. 30 years ago, we were. Like, a small country, partly, basically unknown. Today, we're one of the key financial centers of the world. And I adore that they absolutely bluntly say that in the next 30 years, we will dominate the planet.

Mehmet: Yeah, mind blowing. Exactly. I remember, I remember if, if, if in 2005, the year I arrived to this country, if someone would tell me, uh, Hey, there will be a deep tech company out of here. Like,

Mehmet: I remember very well, it was the financial crisis. Maybe I'm sharing this the first time on the, on the podcast. 2009, 2010 when everyone was leaving actually Dubai and everyone was saying [00:43:00] they're done, you're wasting your time there. I said, okay, let me just tell you one thing. The way, you know, this infrastructure, you know, the way they have designed, you know, everything, how the processes, I would say, you know, this is, this is not something that you can just throw because this is something sustainable and the infrastructure is sustainable.

Mehmet: And I was right. 2012, things started to boom again and you know, things started and now here we go. We are 2024 and yeah, like, uh, absolutely Roman final thing. I know like I took more than I was just supposed to take from your time, but I want you because you have done multiple exits also previously, right?

Mehmet: So how we can encourage more, uh, aspiring entrepreneurs to be in the deep tech space. 

Roman: That's the worst thing, if you want just to make money. If you want to make money, do right healing, food [00:44:00] delivery, uh, fintech, et cetera, et cetera. And, I was, uh, well, my, um, I, I, I took part in selling three companies in two of them.

Roman: I was a hired top manager with a, with an option. And the last company I was one of three co founders. Um, they all were in first, the first of them, uh, was in the space and then it was e sports and fun tech. So. Uh, I specifically decided to switch to Deep Tech because I wanted to not to create a company, pump it and sell it within three years.

Roman: I wanted to, I decided that I want to create something

Roman: Well, you see, I have a tattoo. We are here to put a dent in the universe. [00:45:00] Uh, famous quote by Steve Jobs. Purpose. And I decided to follow this tattoo to create something that will actually help humanity, that will actually change lives for the better. And since I'm a total freak about gadgets, I just put it on.

Roman: Wanted to contribute to this whole movement of the planet. I will be, in case XPANCEO just creates one single component that will be a part of the computer of the future, I will be incredibly lucky because I just want to contribute to computers of the future. You know, my, my, my grandfather was one of the first Soviet engineers, uh, responsible for creation.

Roman: Those first Soviet computers and forces and fifties. And, uh, for me, it's like, like, you know, like a family business. 

Mehmet: Yeah, but, but to your point, you know, at your point, Roman, if you allow me. It's it's not about the money [00:46:00] only and I think The reason why some some startups fail because the founders they think and unfortunately Especially in our region because we're very biased by some other places.

Mehmet: Oh, yeah, like I will raise money Go to series B, series C, sell the company and I will become rich and then I will stay on the beach. I tell people, guys, it's not about this. It's about your purpose. And I like what you showed the tattoo. What, what are you planning to leave after you die? Like, what's your legacy?

Mehmet: Absolutely. Yeah. It's not easy. Deep tech is not easy. You know, um, like. 

Roman: It's probably one of the most. Uh, complicated, uh, types of business in the world, but in case you succeed, you have a chance to, to, to, um, to make impact

Mehmet: out of, but correct me if I'm wrong also in deep tech, because you just mentioned that if you [00:47:00] succeed, but I think you learn a lot, even if you fail. Right. 

Roman: Absolutely. Wow. Uh, sure. And the whole idea to create a startup and in case you even moderately moderately succeed with your startup, like in case you was able to raise seed and to leave, live with the C3 years, try multiple, multiple ways to, to develop the startup and then the startup failed.

Roman: This will be. A crazy influx of experience into one person. You will need 30 years of, um, you will probably, you won't probably learn as much, uh, working, uh, working as a hired person, like for 30 years. Uh, so basically creating a startup is trying to put all your [00:48:00] professional life and within three to five years.

Roman: And with all due respect, I, I don't see many, many successful founders wishing to lie on the beach. Uh, most of successful founders are just people who enjoy this type of life, who are, uh, energy, Uh, who, who, who, who cannot live with this, uh, with this type of energy and this type of risk. Um, so with all due respect, in case you want to lie on the beach, I would suggest either creating something very, very simple like food delivery and selling it within two, three years.

Roman: Or just to find a good job and to save money. And to invest money and [00:49:00] to, uh, well, have long weekends, I would say. 

Mehmet: Absolutely. It's, it's, uh, it's a journey. It's not like, uh, just one time thing. And, and, and it's not about the 

Roman: destination. It's, uh, clearly being, being, being a startup founder and especially a deep tech entrepreneur, it's clearly not about, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the, um, the amount of money within five years.

Roman: Uh, it's, it's about the destination that the well. You know, I always say that I, my, my job is to provide picture of the future. So basically my job is to provide my team with a very clear, very specific image of the future and to provide them with money and resources to reach this, this, this, this point.

Roman: So, uh, yes, in case you want to make money, you have to, you [00:50:00] definitely have to do something else, but in case you want to change the world, uh, to contribute to overall humanity and to probably make insane amount of money in the end, uh, you should probably try. 

Mehmet: That's, that's fantastic. Uh, Roman, finally, where we can find How we can follow, uh, you know, all the updates about, uh, the company and also get in touch with you if someone is interested.

Roman: Um, well, LinkedIn, LinkedIn page of a company, my LinkedIn page, uh, LinkedIn page of my co founder. Uh, my Facebook, my Instagram, and of course, uh, the press releases on our website. 

Mehmet: Okay, great. I will make sure that I will put these links, uh, in, in the show notes. Sure, absolutely. 

Roman: And in case someone wonders about something, [00:51:00] please do feel free to text me in, uh, LinkedIn or in Telegram, uh, to just, just.

Roman: Just to bluntly ask questions. 

Mehmet: Sure. Definitely. Robin, like really I enjoyed the discussion with you today. It was very rich. The pleasure 

Roman: is mine. 

Mehmet: Uh, you know, and what you're doing is, uh, not only as a tech enthusiast, I would say that, you know, someone who has a background in technology, get me excited.

Mehmet: What gets me excited is the you know, your, your vision and your passion and your purpose of, you know, putting your dance in the world. And this is why I aim to do, uh, with this, uh, with this podcast, hopefully I can succeed still work in progress. We will see. And, uh, again, this is for the audience. If you just found this podcast by luck, thank you for passing by.

Mehmet: I hope you like it and enjoyed it. So if you did, please subscribe and share it with your friends and colleagues. And if you are one of the. Loyal follower. Thank you very much [00:52:00] for keep tuning in. I really appreciate it. Send me your suggestions your feedbacks your comments I love to read them all. Thank you very much and we'll be again in a new episode very soon.

Mehmet: Thank you. Bye